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Old 1st November 2010, 19:08   #16
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Originally Posted by pranavt View Post
How much of it is because of the new piping and how much of it is because of removing the cat-con?
That's what i thought too
Unless there are some other restrictions in the muffler like a central muffler in addition to the end muffler as seen in some cars.
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Old 1st November 2010, 20:40   #17
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Originally Posted by Invinsible View Post
That sound reminds me of something. Ajay's creations at best along with vivek
It's sound similar to the my Palio way back in 2001
Ah, Fiats somehow sound the best with a free flow. No matter whether its a Padmini or a Palio.

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Have you considered do the CAI too ? Getting a reasonably sized air filter should make difference in the low end.
Coming up next.

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Originally Posted by valhallen.282 View Post
Secondly a free flow results in lower back pressure. Correct me if I'm wrong this is one of the reasons for better driveability as it allows for quicker revving through the range thanks to the lower backpressure.
If you go too wide, yes. My car's 1.75 dia pipes leave sufficient low end torque.

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What's the next step new plugs ignition and a chip like the RD0601?
K&N Typhoon is next. K&N claims 5 BHP, I expect 1 - 2 (if at all).

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
So in a nut-shell, is it worth going in for a new exhaust-system: header-downpipe-decat?
If you have a car that can accomodate after-market headers, GO FOR IT! The well-designed kit on my Vtec completely changed the car's behaviour.

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Is the sound intrusive, i.e. would it be harsh during say, a long drive?
I like it on the louder side. But yes, its audible at all times.

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It's good to hear that you've given clutch-slipping a slip with the new system! That's one thing my dad and I were really annoyed about!
Drop me a PM if you're ever in my neck of the woods. Would love to hear your comments vis a vis your stock Civic.

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Originally Posted by pranavt View Post
How much of it is because of the new piping and how much of it is because of removing the cat-con?
You can say that again. The OEM cat is supposedly very restrictive.

Last edited by GTO : 1st November 2010 at 20:42.
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Old 1st November 2010, 21:52   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post


K&N Typhoon is next. K&N claims 5 BHP, I expect 1 - 2 (if at all).
Can't wait for the results once the K&N Typhoon has been installed!



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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
If you have a car that can accomodate after-market headers, GO FOR IT! The well-designed kit on my Vtec completely changed the car's behaviour.
The Civic can't. So we might have to settle for just cat-backs.


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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I like it on the louder side. But yes, its audible at all times.
That's the problem right there. My father is the one who drives the car more often than I do. And I'm sure at some point in time he will complain about the noise. And it's not just him, during our long 600 + km Bangalore-Goa stints, we would be accompanied by the heavy drone from the exhaust and that isn't nice, especially while on a long drive!

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Drop me a PM if you're ever in my neck of the woods. Would love to hear your comments vis a vis your stock Civic.
Most definitely!
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Old 1st November 2010, 22:46   #19
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Hmm ,if you are spending 20-25 K on FF ,is 4-5 bhp ok ?. I would expect atleast 10-15 bhp for that money spent (asking more?).Off course the advantage is the low end and growl .I dont care about the growl , but would it be possible to increase the low end without free flow ?

PS:This might be OT , but how much increase in emission does this free flow contribute to .Ya I know ,I am being kabab me haddi .I hope you take this statement in positive way .If you are like "who cares " ,ignore this post . If you do care , just do a emission test and publish the results please .

PPS:Good to know you are going one step at a time and validating the step ,before next step .

Last edited by black12rr : 1st November 2010 at 22:49.
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Old 1st November 2010, 22:55   #20
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GTO, I was wondering one thing here. With the CatCon gone do you think you will have a problem in clearing the next PUC certification? PUC certification/testing databases maintain a limit for the exhaust gases for the BS-I, BS-II, BS-III etc. The system catches that using the year of manufacture.

My friend had a problem clearing the PUC with his car when he removed the CatCon as he had some exhaust related issues. The new CatCon was costing him around 18k. He thought he will skip a new CatCon but had to order one finally as his car could not clear the PUC certfication even after 3 attempts at the different testing places. Of course depending on manufacturer, and particularly since Honda engines are anyhow some of the cleanest on earth, may be it will not be an issue for you.

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Old 1st November 2010, 22:58   #21
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It should still clear PUC with flying colors. Since the intake already faces the front, what this car needs is a nice set of ITBs
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Old 1st November 2010, 23:07   #22
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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
That's the problem right there. My father is the one who drives the car more often than I do. And I'm sure at some point in time he will complain about the noise. And it's not just him
Not necessary that a free flow has to be loud. My buddy's Ikon 1.6 is really soft. Except at 6,000 rpm, where the noise is still controlled, you can't even tell that its a free flow. The muffler design dictates sound quality & volume.

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Originally Posted by black12rr View Post
Hmm ,if you are spending 20-25 K on FF ,is 4-5 bhp ok ?
Well, modifying cars is certainly not about VFM. If you have more options for a petrol's BHP / $$$, I'm all ears.

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but how much increase in emission does this free flow contribute to
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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
GTO, I was wondering one thing here. With the CatCon gone do you think you will have a problem in clearing the next PUC certification?
The OHC Vtec passed each PUC with "flying colours", as Pranav put it, from 2007 - 2010. She was comfortably within legal limits.

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Originally Posted by pranavt View Post
Since the intake already faces the front, what this car needs is a nice set of ITBs
Any straight forward options for the Civic? What are the pros & cons?

Last edited by GTO : 2nd November 2010 at 10:17.
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Old 1st November 2010, 23:50   #23
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Brainfart. The intake is on the driver's side. Nonetheless, no bolt-on sets for this engine.
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Old 2nd November 2010, 01:20   #24
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Congratulations on the 5 bhp.

1.You gained mostly from the removal of the cat con.
2.Don't worry about headers. Honda engines flow very well.
3.I have a feeling there are no SS pipes sold in the steel market with diameter values between 1.75" and 2.0".
My puny 85hp 1.3 now runs the same 1.75" albeit mild steel.
The Fiesta 1.6S 100hp comes with 1.75" exhaust piping from the factory.
And now your 130hp civic is running 1.75" aftermarket SS piping.
Can't a 1.85" be sourced?
Or were you really stressing on the bottom end torque to automech?

4.What end can are you using?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO
• A reminder : My stock exhaust is up for grabs (free) to any BHPian who owns a Civic. Feel free to PM and pick it up from my place at no cost.
That catalytic converter alone should cost quite a few thousands.
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Old 2nd November 2010, 10:21   #25
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Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
Or were you really stressing on the bottom end torque to automech?
Yes. The Civic's mid & top is more than enough, it's the bottom that needed improvement.

I have a feeling that the free flow has also changed the way that the electronic throttle behaves. The improvement in torque will certainly not be as much as the sharper throttle indicates. Is there a possibility that one of the sensors has something to do with it? Or was the cat con the culprit? The accelerator at 1,000 rpm was really dull (or DEAD) earlier. Now it's alive.

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4.What end can are you using?
Custom made from AutoMech.
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Old 2nd November 2010, 11:00   #26
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Or was the cat con the culprit? The accelerator at 1,000 rpm was really dull (or DEAD) earlier. Now it's alive.
I am pretty sure it was the CatCon. I remember reading some other articles where people experienced better lower end throttle response just by removing the CatCon. Also, there is a relationship where the Catcon is located, in relation to the headers. The closer it is to the headers, the better for the environment but worse for performance. The further it is towards the muffler, the worse it is for the environment, but better for performance.

And, if I remember right, the iVTEC engines had the catcon really close to the headers for improved emissions. Here is the video where I got that info:



This should also answer questions as to why the headers are integrated into the engine. This engine is not intended only for performance enthusiasts, but also for better fuel economy & emission standards.
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Old 2nd November 2010, 16:50   #27
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Smile Dyno Graphs Combined

GTO,

Combined both the dyno graphs (stock as well as the one with mods). This can be put in the first post for reference.

Cheers

Honda Civic Dyno Run no.2 - With performance exhaust-gto-dyno-graph-copy.jpg
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Old 2nd November 2010, 16:54   #28
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GTO, I have the same question as pranav. Did the free flow exhaust actually help at all? If you had stuck to stock exhaust, and just removed your cat con, you may have gotten similar results.
With dyno's at our disposal, I guess Its only a matter of time we learn the real truth and money vs Benefit equation of all mods.

Secondly, from what I see in the overlayed graphs, unless the overlay is wrong, it appears that the new exhaust is actually leading to lower numbers than before in the low end of the powerband, the place where you actually wanted the benefit.

So the "increase" in low end driveability could be a placebo effect due to sporty noise.
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Old 2nd November 2010, 16:56   #29
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@Tanveer,

The overlay is correct, you can compare both the individual graphs for reference.
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Old 2nd November 2010, 17:05   #30
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Thanks for the clarification Salil.
In that case, I see this
In lower rpm (<5000) stock exhaust was giving better torque. So this new exhaust will lead to better high end numbers, but in city driving, it will lead to worse performance.
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