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Old 16th November 2010, 11:17   #16
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A lot has already been said discussed about the dyno tests. The team were patient in terms of shifting cars, removing wheels, fitting the dyno

We were late in getting the cars registered so had to wait our turn,

Open House at *Red Rooster (Bangalore)*. Free dyno run, demo drives and facility tour-img_0939.jpg
This Civic only scored 85 hp. The owner looked worried

A bhp's Swift D was tested and scored a credible 65hp


Open House at *Red Rooster (Bangalore)*. Free dyno run, demo drives and facility tour-img_0944.jpg

This Octy with Petes remap, intercooler everything except a larger turbo did 150 (a stock one did 120). Fourth run which is not prolonged- no high revving flat out, just gentle acceleration, the turbo overheated.

The Old Mans car was next and scored 85 (115 rated) not too bad. There is an air fuel probe added to the exhaust. Looks like car is running rich.

We then put a Bangkok taxi on. It maxed out at 96 as opposed to its 120 bhp rating

Open House at *Red Rooster (Bangalore)*. Free dyno run, demo drives and facility tour-img_0955.jpg

Video is here


What goes on


After the car is mounted, the final drive is assessed at the engine speed of 2000. The power balance between the wheels are checked. The car is then slotted into fourth and revved till max power is reached

Last edited by ajmat : 16th November 2010 at 11:50. Reason: Corrected Optra's factory claim rating
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Old 16th November 2010, 11:31   #17
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Other cars on display

There was the 250 bhp civic except it was not running 250 bhp as the turbo had not been fitted. Everything else was in place. It was used to give demo rides abouts its suspension,
Open House at *Red Rooster (Bangalore)*. Free dyno run, demo drives and facility tour-img_0941.jpg


There was also a turbo'd swift. As we were at the Dyno and there was a crowd for these cars, we did not look into this in ddepth. Note, everyone were given test rides. They had too many issues giving hot cars to wanna be Vettels

All in all, it is an impressive establishment. It is expensive no doubt but if you notice, the team members are skilled technicians who take a lot of pride in what they do, high quality of equipment and tools and of course, the collective knowledge of the team.

One needs to realise, you pay a high price but you dont have the cost of rework, blown heads, failed theories, etc. even if you have high ambitions with little research, the team have the knowledge to tell you like it actually it.

Thank you, Dinesh, Deepak and of course Leela Krishna who spent quality time with us.


Credits - Rudra Sen - Pictures, Dyno Video - Jaggu

Last edited by ajmat : 16th November 2010 at 11:34.
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Old 16th November 2010, 11:52   #18
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Going by the low numbers of the Civic/Altis that are being justified on the basis of altitude, I have a few observations.

The Octy RS/Swift D in stock form have been mentioned at 120/65 whp RESPECTIVELY(18%/15% power loss from 148/74 bhp respectively).Compare this to the Civic/Altis(85/96 respectively) at same conditions and its surprising to note that the the Civic/Altis report losses of around 35/25% respectively.Surely the dyno acting up can be ruled out from the earlier accurate figures of the RS/Swift D.Even the earlier dynoed Esteem reports a 25% loss but thats with a clogged filter.So here again the dyno's more or less accurate.

What's wrong here?Manufacturers's claims on the Civic/Altis perhaps?

Last edited by octane1002 : 16th November 2010 at 12:12.
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Old 16th November 2010, 11:54   #19
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Awesome place, can anyone give me location details. I work in E-city phase 1.
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Old 16th November 2010, 12:18   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octane1002 View Post
Going by the low numbers of the Civic/Altis that are being justified on the basis of altitude, I have a few observations.

The Octy RS/Swift D in stock form have been mentioned at 120/65 whp RESPECTIVELY(18%/15% power loss from 148/74 bhp respectively).Compare this to the Civic/Altis(85/96 respectively) at same conditions and its surprising to note that the the Civic/Altis report losses of around 35/25% respectively.Surely the dyno acting up can be ruled out from the earlier accurate figures of the RS/Swift D.Even the earlier dynoed Esteem reports a 25% loss but thats with a clogged filter.So here again the dyno's more or less accurate.

What's wrong here?Manufacturers's claims on the Civic/Altis perhaps?
Leela mentioned that Toyota's figures are usually accurate do the 96bhp is still less. My Altis was also running rich as per the AFR graph.

Moreover I was using the stock filter and had forgotten to change/clean it during last service. That means 10K kms and one year in bangalore's traffic. The car's been babied around and is usually chauffeur driven which means does not visit the red line at all.

The Optra too showed a 30% drop and was running a K&N replacement filter which was also not cleaned for more than 6 months.
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Old 16th November 2010, 16:22   #21
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Nice to see an OHC's engine on the engine stand

What is the highest hp measured on their dyno?
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Old 16th November 2010, 16:35   #22
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The Turbo swift was 'claimed' to develop 250 horses. I seriously doubt it. Highest power among tuned ones (couple of there may be others) was 146 turbo OHC done by Leela and one 380 bhp Cedia also done by Leela. They also supply Giant bikes. They looked lovely. No price list available for parts since only Prashant or Leela knew it. So couldn't bother. Facility - top class.
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Old 16th November 2010, 17:04   #23
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I was thinking about getting the Powerdrive upgrade done on my Punto, would this be the best place for it? i am impressed with the facility, but since i have no clue about whats available in the market outside in Bangalore i am just curious.
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Old 16th November 2010, 18:02   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octane1002 View Post
What's wrong here?Manufacturers's claims on the Civic/Altis perhaps?
The AFR graph of Altis showed that it was running rich than needed, so either the filter was clogged or not upto the mark. Another info we go was that some manufacturers like to keep the engine little on the richer side to compensate for our indian conditions. Especially if the valves are on the more finicky side.

Civic unfortunately we are not sure, coz the stock filter was squeaky clean yellow. Maybe it was never run in proper and babied all around, maybe the gas was the culprit, maybe the clutch is at fault. But honestly no clear idea why figure was low.

Please note that this dyno was calibrated under stringent SAE calculations which are more conservative. The system even has an auto update facility through the internet which is usually done on a monthly schedule.

The altitude variance as far as i remember, was already factored in.

EDIT: For Honda fans, dont go overboard on engine mods on the ANHC. It has one of the most delicate and weakest bottom half So prepare to go forged parts and all if you want to make it a screamer!

Last edited by Jaggu : 16th November 2010 at 18:07.
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Old 16th November 2010, 19:16   #25
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graeat day at RRR, my civic scored 86 bhp at the wheel. Wooried . Went to Honda on Monday as my car is still on warranty. They checked all parameters. Said everything is perfect and nothing to worry. When I told them the sluggish performance and showed them the dyno result, they asked me to wait. After an animated conversation over the phone by the works manager the graph was scanned and sent by mail. They got back to me today and said there must be an error with the dyno, as even a car in bad condition (worn clutch and airfiilter will give out 100- 105 and perfect condition should be 115 at the wheel +- 2 bhp.
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Old 16th November 2010, 20:31   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
Yup, it must be the alt which is causing this. There could be a 7-9% diff between B'bay and Blore numbers.
What about the correction factor for the losses. Do folks adjust the values or keep it at one meaning no attempt at correcting transmission losses. If I remember right, I was told that at RRP they keep it at one but just adjusting the value can drastically increase values.

Would this explain 106bhp at the wheels for GTO's vtec with free flow and headers and an air filter. Isn't 106 at the wheels way too high for these mods?

My ohc vtec shows 76 hp at the wheels if I remember rt. A little better maintanence would have shown values in the range of 80 odd. I have FF, air filter and headers.

I was shown graphs of a modded RS that was putting out close to 150hp at the wheels and a small correction factor made that number rise to 189 or so.
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Old 16th November 2010, 21:22   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octane1002 View Post
Going by the low numbers of the Civic/Altis that are being justified on the basis of altitude, I have a few observations.
....
What's wrong here?Manufacturers's claims on the Civic/Altis perhaps?
Turbo and NA engines behave differently to altitude.
It would be wrong to comment on only a handful of readings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
Us mods and a young Dbhpian went along. We took the Optra and a Thai taxi with us. Was feeling bit under the weather so the RS stayed back (yes, I am an idiot!).
......
May this grow to be our McLaren Tecnology centre.


An open house with an offer of a free dyno pull. I would have expected that the place would have been swamped with Bhpians. Judging by the limited responses, that did not happen. Why?

Regards
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Old 16th November 2010, 22:08   #28
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I was there, a shade late though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlee View Post
The Turbo swift was 'claimed' to develop 250 horses.
I thought the claim was 125Bhp. People who were driven around in that car seem to be really impressed with the turbo setup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
An open house with an offer of a free dyno pull. I would have expected that the place would have been swamped with Bhpians. Judging by the limited responses, that did not happen. Why?
Selective communication about the event. Imagine 100 cars queueing up for dyno test. Most of the mods being done by RR are pretty costly since they are targeting a segment of people who are damn serious about mods. For example, a TEIN super street suspension with in-cabin electronic damping force controller would cost around 100k
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Old 16th November 2010, 22:16   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
The AFR graph of Altis showed that it was running rich than needed, so either the filter was clogged or not upto the mark!
Any idea how much was the AFR? I guess we can check the filter and verify that theory.
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Old 16th November 2010, 22:40   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s.prashanth View Post
. They got back to me today and said there must be an error with the dyno, as even a car in bad condition (worn clutch and airfiilter will give out 100- 105 and perfect condition should be 115 at the wheel +- 2 bhp.
A corolla rated at 120 give 96 so I would have expected a honda rated at 130 to touch 100
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