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Old 18th November 2010, 21:26   #1
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Default My Honda City Vtec - RRP Dyno report - Graph included

I finally got some free time to slot my car for a dyno run at the RRP facility, here in bangalore. Thanks to Killer for helping me with the arrangement for the dyno time thru RRP.
Red Rooster Performance, uses a hub dyno and has massive STP corrections over your regular roller chassis dyno. So the figures and no-where close to the manufacturer claimed numbers. It was indeed an interesting eye-opener to see the real world figures of most engines on this dyno.
My Honda City Vtec, won the Hyd Speedway Drag in the street stock class and recorded 1.4 secs quicker than the car which finished 2nd, driven by an ace driver.
I have worked on most factors around the engine (keeping it bone stock still) for the street stock class, and the results have been very interesting. My tuned exhaust system alone gave the engine a lot of boost and to complement, I have my tuned intake system with a freeflow filter. A Race Dynamics ECU, which I personally mapped over the days with the help of my on-board WB AEM system. The difference with the stock engine was massive and I was pulling under 1 secs quicker than a stock car to 100kph. Now howering in the 8s to 100kph.
Many claim that the stock Honda maps cant be beaten(which is true if you dont know your stuff), but my target was to prove that it can be improved. I have managed to attain nearly 3bhp over my own engine and with solid difference in torque and power across the rev range. However I have spent a lot of time optimising the maps and get to precision levels of tune. Most of it was corrected even before I got to the dyno.
After spending an hour at the RRP facility trying various maps, I attained a max figure of 82.2bhp at the wheel with Race Dynamics ECU and 79.6bhp with the stock ECU. A stock Vtec is rated at 71bhp.
A certain Vtec with custom intake, FPR and custom exhaust made 75bhp. A stock civic makes 84bhp at the wheel. Swift makes 55bhp.
Now, all would compare this with GTOs 106hp run, well again like I said earlier the correction factors are much higher than a roller chassis dyno. My car on the same dyno as GTOs should make around 115bhp, but thats an assumption considering the corrections on this dyno and not to be quoted.
Now the graph.

I got a chance to view crazyD's graph as well and must say it makes solid gains over a stock baleno and on par with a stock engine honda with exhaust and intake with FPR.

Cheers,

Joel
Attached Thumbnails
My Honda City Vtec - RRP Dyno report - Graph included-honda-city-joel-bmc-filter-headersrd-ecu.jpg  

My Honda City Vtec - RRP Dyno report - Graph included-honda-city-joel-rd-vs-stock.jpg  


Last edited by Jaggu : 18th November 2010 at 22:38. Reason: Thread already exist, please use Search before creating a new thread. Thanks
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Old 18th November 2010, 21:42   #2
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You're welcome dude. Doesnt matter if the dyno records lower than normal figures, atleast now you have a base run that you can use for reference after you start work on the engine, thats more imporant. Now can we move on from stock already
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Old 18th November 2010, 22:32   #3
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Joel that's awesome and you haven't touched the engine yet. Good work mate Got to hear the details from Killer
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Old 18th November 2010, 22:43   #4
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Hey congratz on the placing at the drag. Good show!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
My tuned exhaust system alone gave the engine a lot of boost and to complement, I have my tuned intake system with a freeflow filter.
Just curious, how did you get the intake tuned??
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Old 18th November 2010, 22:47   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Hey congratz on the placing at the drag. Good show!



Just curious, how did you get the intake tuned??
Well, I modified an existing D series intake to suit my power requirement, including runner lengths and dia. I work on my engines on my own and nothing was a plug and play job.
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Old 18th November 2010, 22:52   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
Well, I modified an existing D series intake to suit my power requirement, including runner lengths and dia. I work on my engines on my own and nothing was a plug and play job.
Ok thats commendable, but how do you calculate these parameters? Software or any formula's etc, reference from imported engines?? Or just plain trial and error method?
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Old 18th November 2010, 23:08   #7
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Joel: Excellent stuff. I am more impressed by the gains you made even without the Standalone. 80bhp with just intake and exhaust is amazing. What I am more amazed is the torque.

Dont compare these figures to the Mumbai dyno, its best that we stick to the RRR dyno for reference point and build up from this point onwards. I only wish this dyno was open long time ago.

Redrage, I would also like to see what a bone stock baleno would make. Its just my point but you car is doing amazingly well, I would stick to it without any changes.
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Old 18th November 2010, 23:31   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Ok thats commendable, but how do you calculate these parameters? Software or any formula's etc, reference from imported engines?? Or just plain trial and error method?
Sir, I have been working on engines for close to a decade. I have my calculations, experience and race experience to conclude my dimensions and what you see in the dyno is that.
I work as a Race Engineer

@crazyd - Thanks man.
All this torque was achieved with my 4 x 1 exhaust and everybody would swear that it cant make low down power and driveability will go down massively. But then, my design is quite unique. Took me over a week to build and a lot of time with my pen, paper and brain. The result is on a paper now. And I wanted to beat that comment of "Honda maps cant be bettered" by tuning an ECU on my own and getting more area under the curve over stock. Which I did. Also, managed to pull the highest that even RRP didnt expect with the stock ECU. All this with a 90k kms run engine and without touching a bolt.
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Old 18th November 2010, 23:42   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
Sir, I have been working on engines for close to a decade. I have my calculations, experience and race experience to conclude my dimensions and what you see in the dyno is that.
I work as a Race Engineer
Lol i dont need an intro man, have been following your work online over many forums. Right from your fiero days.

I was asking since very few people are willing to reveal the science behind these mods, thats all. And the point of participating in a public forum is to share these info, as long as it doesn't affect your patents
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Old 19th November 2010, 00:29   #10
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I'm extremely happy with the amount of torque the engine is putting out with a 4 x 1 pipe, while the argument is always that it can never get that good down the rev range and only a 4 x 2 x 1 can work.

@Jaggu - No patents, but I sure dont wanna get into my dimensions on an open forum or for that matter with anyone else also. But I'm more than happy to openly tell what I did .
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Old 19th November 2010, 09:51   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlee View Post
I have seen 76-78 for stock 1.5 non vtec at RRR when i just wanted to compare mine. He claimed no modifications on those cars. This was on my first visit and last visit also he shown the latest run of another city 1.5 with figures in the same range. So 22% loss on claimed 100 figure for 1.5 ohc.
Checked all runs that have been made on that dyno and verified with the operators as well, no stock vtec or 1.5 ohc has managed the figures you mention. if you do have such a run, kindly post it. thanks

Last edited by Killer : 19th November 2010 at 10:03.
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Old 19th November 2010, 10:41   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazydiablo View Post

Redrage, I would also like to see what a bone stock baleno would make. Its just my point but you car is doing amazingly well, I would stick to it without any changes.
Thanks for that Mohit. You have a fantastic baleno. Would love to go on a drive with you sometime. Heard a lot about your monster car.

I should thank Mr. Raj Hingorani and Mr. Ravi Praskash (Mandovi) for helping me out on my car. They have done every modification quite well keeping in mind the most important thing, reliability for daily driving.

Quote:
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Joel: Excellent stuff. I am more impressed by the gains you made even without the Standalone. 80bhp with just intake and exhaust is amazing. What I am more amazed is the torque.
Fantastic stuff Joel, you have a come a long way indeed, right from our K&N days with Xbhp in 2003

Last edited by redrage : 19th November 2010 at 10:43.
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Old 19th November 2010, 11:05   #13
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But I'm more than happy to openly tell what I did .
Please do, atleast the method that you used to break the myth of 4x1
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Old 20th November 2010, 01:33   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Please do, atleast the method that you used to break the myth of 4x1
well, after a few hours of posting up my dyno chart online, I got a few calls and messages asking me how I got that much torque lower down the rev-range, yet gaining so much at the top. well, to just give you an insight, its a very complicated header design which I took about 8-10 days to work on and the system has over 5 dimensional changes and header innovations that nobody has tried ever. All carried over from my race engine development with bikes. This is the first ever car exhaust I got to build and I'm extremely happy with the result. Nearly 20nm more torque than a stock engine and so much more area under the curve and with solid top-whack is what makes this an eye opener. I'm just having my fun time with my car after bikes and I will continue to till I'm bugged .
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Old 20th November 2010, 12:06   #15
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Here's a very informative link for people looking out to understand better about intake and exhaust length's,not giving out any secret its just valuable information available off the internet ive come across over time,if nothing else they sure do make a good read,hope this helps,cheers,happy revving..!

Intake : Intake Manifold Tech: Runner Size Calculations - Team Integra

Exhaust :Engine Formulae, 4-Stroke - Engineers Edge

Exhaust Systems Tuned Length

Lt = (Eo x Vs) / N
Lt is the tuned length, in inches
Eo is the exhaust-open period, in degrees
Vs is wave speed in feet per second (1700 ft/sec at sea level)
N is crankshaft speed, in RPM
Length of Curved Pipe
L = R x .01745 x Z
L is length
R is radius of the pipe bend
Z is the angle of the bend

Diffuser Proportions
D2 = SQRT( D1^2 x 6.25 )
D2 is the diffuser outlet diameter
D1 is the diffuser inlet diameter
6.25 is the outlet/inlet ratio constant
Baffle Cones
Lr = Le/2
Lr is mean point of the reflection inside the baffle cone
Le is the length of the baffle cone

Last edited by dragger : 20th November 2010 at 12:08. Reason: Clearing un-related data
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