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Old 25th September 2008, 05:10   #2146
abk
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Folks, since the time i discovered this forum i have been hooked onto it like anything! When it comes to views, reviews, expert tips & suggestions, comparison & narration of cars I will gladly proclaim this is the best place - at least for us - the Indian car savvy fraternity. However, i found this long thread an exception (appalling actually) much unlike the range and depth of expertise in all other areas on this site. Anyway, to cut a long story short, I have done significant analysis into car lighting and here are few upfront facts distilled out of my learnings and experiences (but please read this in conjunction with at least a few pages of opinions and suggestions in this thread to complete the picture). In this part i will cover incandescent halogen headlamp bulbs. Will do the HIDs later:

1. Most of the car headlamps in India house H4 P43t base bulbs. These have two filaments one for the high beam and the other for the low beam. Normally, these are 60W/55W (one is the high beam the other is the low) 12V. These are filled with inert gases mostly xenon that is why they are also called xenons or xenon halogens. But these are NOT High Intensity Discharge (HID) bulbs which are also referred to as xenons these days.

2. Headlamp assemblies where there are two separate headlamp reflectors and bulbs normally have a dedicated high beam and a dedicated low beam (both 55W, normally H1 or H7 type). These bulbs are marginal improvements over H4 as the filament could be heated to slightly higher temperature than is feasibly achievable in H4 due to its bigger volume.

3. Higher temperature also wears out the life of the tungsten filament of bulbs. Therefore, H1 or H7 normally have shorter lifespan than same watt H4.

4. With increase of wattage the life of a bulb deteriorates further. A 60W/55W H4 will normally have twice as much lighting life as 100W/90W H4 and even longer compared to 110W/100W or 130W/100W H4. Therefore, if you replace your stock H4 60W/55W with a higher wattage expect faster burn outs of your car's headlamps.

5. The heat produced by halogen lamps is much more intense than non-halogen incandescent bulbs (and therefore, brighter as the filament could be heated to even higher temperature). Normally, headlamp assemblies including the reflector, bulb holder, the rubber linings & wires are designed to handle stock capacities. If you upgrade with relay (relay is a protecting or 'insulating' device which protects sensitive power generating and transmitting devices and conductors from the surge of heavier currents by simulating an artificial high resistance whilst powering a low resistance device that drains more current, & therefore, power) and thicker wires you'd be fine in most cases. However, the long term effect of more heat on the headlamp reflectors will start showing. Smaller reflectors are more vulnerable to losing their shine faster due to high heat.

6. There are several halogen headlamp bulbs available in the market for more specialised use. However, bear in mind the stock bulbs that came with your brand new car in the last 3-4 years are almost as good as you can probably buy from the market paying a much higher premium. I have tried at different points in time arguably the (then available) brightest and most light producing (will explain in the next point) bulbs like Osram Silverstar (Osram Silverstar has two sets one for the US which has much relaxed automobile lighting rules and the other for Europe with stringent regulations), Philips Extreme and the latest Osram Night Breaker. I also tried Phoenix lamps' Halonix +60. I can safely say the overall improvement in illumination in normal city and outskirts driving was marginal. And all of them seemed to do a job as good as the other, except the Osram Night Breaker which due to large proportion of glass area covered by bluish tint gives 'whiter' light.

7. Any bulb coated with colours (blue or yellow or golden) will effectively shine less light on the road as the tint will absorb a portion of the light emanated from the filament. Simple optics helps us understand that due to this absorption of a certain part (wavelength or frequency) of the light, the light appears 'coloured' - either more 'whitish' or bluish or yellowish. However, whiter or bluish light improve apparent illumination (but not visibility) at night time at the cost of reduced 'amount' of light. They are better for lower beams and wider horizontal spread.

8. Several experiments have been conducted to find if yellow or golden light actually improves visibility during fog and rains. The findings are inconclusive - some tend to suggest yes and others no. Therefore, you can be happy with whatever you have cheers:

9. Big question now: you would have probably seen bulbs from the most reputed auto bulb makers including Osram & Philips raving about +50, +80, +90 range of bulbs. Does that mean these bulbs produce that % of more light output? The answer is no. Then what do they do will be your next obvious question! They increase illumination at a distance (usually between 50 to 75 metres) by that % by doing changes in their bulb's filament design and getting the light spectral pattern to focus more at longer range. Which in effect will mean you will be able to 'see' more at a distance without actually increasing the overall light output! This will be apparent to you when you drive in long stretches of unending darkness and not in city and city outskirts lighting conditions.

10. In the Scandinavian countries including Denmark it is mandatory to drive with headlights on even during the daytime. For such specialised uses there are separate sets of halogen bulbs available commonly called daytime running lights. The filaments of these bulbs are engineered to burn at a relatively lesser temperature thereby increasing the longevity significantly, albeit at the cost of slightly less whiter light (the higher the temperature of filament the whiter is the light; lower the temperature yellowish is the light for clear lens bulbs).

Now that i have given you guys 10 points, here's my piece of advice just in case anyone needs it: if you plan to do off-roading and depend on your auxiliary high power lamps to light your way please carry a spare set of bulbs as they burn out much quickly. In fact, in some european (again!) countries including Spain, Czech Rep it is mandatory to carry spare bulbs in the car.

Finally, to answer one of the questions about having both the beams (filaments) of H4 headlamp bulb on and its effect on bulb longevity: In a lot of cars with H4 headlamp bulbs the dipper switch when dipped partially (high beam is turned on) it lights up the high beam. If you are driving at night on low beam this will mean that till the time the dipper is partially dipped both the beams are lightened up (until you pull or push the dipper completely when it switches over to the high beam or let the dipper go which turns off the high beam). During this time when both the beams are on a lot of heat is produced which is not a normal condition based on which bulbs are designed. This severe heat affects the bulb's filament life. Consequently, faster burn outs. In fact a lot of bulbs turn grey to black due to bad engineering and high heat which evaporates the tungsten filament into minute particles and deposit them on the bulb glass.

Ciao tonight! Rest later..
- Abu
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Old 25th September 2008, 09:30   #2147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anantnehru View Post
Cool, thanks alot for the info.
Yea, I'm not really expecting it to be really brilliant, but since I'm already 4300K Bixenons as headlights, the yellow beam from the fogs is slightly off putting to the eyes. But in any case, I dont really get such good lighting from the fogs.
Why dont you try Narva H8 if you can find them. They might come close to the 4300k Bixenons you have.

Another thing, if you want uniformity you need to get 4300k from the same bulb manufacturer... cos colour temps vary from company to company.
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Old 25th September 2008, 11:26   #2148
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Originally Posted by s0uljah View Post
Another thing, if you want uniformity you need to get 4300k from the same bulb manufacturer... cos colour temps vary from company to company.
Think Il give the Xenons a shot. Didnt know about the colour temperatures varying - thanks. I was actually considering 5000K if not, 4300K. Still have till the weekend to decide - so its ok.
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Old 25th September 2008, 11:41   #2149
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Originally Posted by abk View Post
Folks, ....

...Ciao tonight! Rest later..
- Abu
Thanks Abu for the long message.

I agree with that higher wattage bulbs fade the HL assembly and so does their relative advantage over time. And they burn faster. But tell me in layman terms as to why better illumination will not give better visibility (of course with right wavelength and projection)? The relation has to be direct if not linear.
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Old 25th September 2008, 11:43   #2150
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100/90W bulbs have lower life than 60/55W normal bulbs, but the +80%, +90% bulbs have the lowest life.
And a brighter bulb will give better illumination when focussed again.
Filament position is variable from sample to sample, therefore its advisable to get refocusing done after every bulb change.
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Old 26th September 2008, 01:18   #2151
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Is it allowed to use xenon's on high beam.

Last edited by aah78 : 26th September 2008 at 02:43. Reason: Post moved to correct thread.
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Old 26th September 2008, 01:55   #2152
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Originally Posted by abhinav.gupta88 View Post
Is it allowed to use xenon's on high beam.
Yes it is allowed...most xenons that come on luxury cars here are bi-xenons which means the high beam is also xenon. I dont see a reason why it would not be allowed.

Last edited by aah78 : 26th September 2008 at 02:42. Reason: Post edited and moved to correct thread.
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Old 26th September 2008, 02:41   #2153
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Originally Posted by abhinav.gupta88 View Post
Is it allowed to use xenon's on high beam.
It's allowed, as Sahil mentions, but the beam will blind oncoming traffic, the same as your regular halogen beams do, so please use your high beams wisely.

Last edited by aah78 : 26th September 2008 at 02:42. Reason: Post moved to correct thread.
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Old 26th September 2008, 11:14   #2154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abk View Post
In this part i will cover incandescent halogen headlamp bulbs. Will do the HIDs later:
Thanks for the education abk. Shall wait for your write-up on HIDs.
Have you thought of something on fog lights as well ?
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Old 28th September 2008, 09:51   #2155
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Originally Posted by anantnehru View Post
I had the same issue as well, but I was told that you dont usually get Philips VisionPlus for the fogs (H8s) and really actually wouldnt be worth the cost, think I was quoted about a 1k, if I remember clearly.
Why not go in for xenons again? Thats what I'm doing - would get a uniform lighting pattern as well, at least colour wise.
Well,went n inquired about xenons for fog in verna.no sir ,philips n bosch dont make that bulb size.will have to go in for imported chineese stuff.has anybody with a verna installed xenon in their fogs?if yes which make?their reliablity?does autopsyche have them?please help as going to delhi next weekend.might as well get them installed.
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Old 30th September 2008, 16:19   #2156
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@Path_Finder

Sorry i made a mistake. Instead of reading it as "However, whiter or bluish light improve apparent illumination (but not visibility) at night time at the cost of reduced 'amount' of light." please read it the other way around. That is, whiter or bluish light improve visibility without change in illumination. This is due to the sensitivity curve of human retina.

In a nutshell, for the same amount of light, say one is yellow and the other white, our eyes will 'see' more in white than in yellow. Consequently, some bulbs come with coating which although absorbs a part of the light (so less amount of light on the road) yet the road appears better in terms of visibility. That is why latest Philips x-treme & Osram Night Breaker come with a mild bluish tint (Night Breaker has more area covered with the tint but the intensity of tint is more in x-treme) to emit whiter light. One needs to bear in mind that there is a trade-off between the thickness of the coating and the wavelength of the light. A heavier coating can reduce the effective visibility by blocking proportionately more light.

Thanks Path Finder for pointing this out!

@shyamhegde

Unfortunately, I will take a while to post the HID stuff. On the fogs even am boggled myself. I think the halogen fogs are less useful and more for the looks of the car They do help a little in fogs and rains but the help rendered is governed so much by the beam pattern. Retrofitting normal fog lamps with HIDs is almost a waste of money unless the reflector focusses the beam effectively (which is difficult to achieve given the difference in the filament beam pattern as opposed to gas discharge beam pattern). Personally my advise is not to spend a fortune on fog lamps, unless it is for the looks and not the purpose. For adverse light driving conditions, auxiliary lampsets (Hella is the best) with HIDs are the best but costs quite a lot, besides having legal wrangles. In my OHC i had a chinese pair of fogs with two H3s in each. This gave me the flexibility to mix & match (2 light blue & 2 golden coated bulbs) but wasn't too effective in the dense fogs. This arrangement is also very heavy on the battery (additional 4 x 55W) and alternator.
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Old 30th September 2008, 21:09   #2157
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Well,went n inquired about xenons for fog in verna.no sir ,philips n bosch dont make that bulb size.will have to go in for imported chineese stuff.has anybody with a verna installed xenon in their fogs?if yes which make?their reliablity?does autopsyche have them?please help as going to delhi next weekend.might as well get them installed.
anybody help me please....
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Old 2nd October 2008, 20:08   #2158
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Folks, any clue how many headlamps Indica Vista has? Is it single H4 or twin reflectors (maybe H1 & H7)? Sorry to be asking such a trivial question but from the pictures that i have seen so far it is not much apparent Wish i could see the car in real life

Thanks!
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Old 3rd October 2008, 02:29   #2159
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Originally Posted by abk View Post
Folks, any clue how many headlamps Indica Vista has? Is it single H4 or twin reflectors (maybe H1 & H7)? Sorry to be asking such a trivial question but from the pictures that i have seen so far it is not much apparent Wish i could see the car in real life

Thanks!
Its not H4 for sure, its twin reflectors. More than that cannot say as me also have not seen car from close - seen it on the road here and there.
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Old 4th October 2008, 11:18   #2160
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Default Verna Headlight Upgrade - 100/90

Hello,

I had been to the Hyundai Service today enquiring about upgrading the headlamps on my car & this is what they say:

Electrician - If you are going for 100/90, no need for any - Relay, CutOut, Wiring or Ceramic holders. Just an additional Fuse is required. (This is totally contradictory what i've come across in this website regarding headlamps upgrade)

Manager - Totally discourages from going for an upgrade. He wanted to show me a couple of vernas which went for an upgrade & ended up with their lens becoming completely foggier than with the stock headlamps

I've 2 questions:

1. Can any of the users who have upgraded to 100/90 headlamps(Verna), tell me, if the lens of headlamps have become foggier than normal(using the stock 65/55) after considerable usage?

2. Will Verna's existing setup withstand 100/90 or would it be safer to go for the Relay, CutOut, Wiring & Ceramic holders?


Can someone help me out with my questions


Thank You

Note from Team-BHP Support : Thread MERGED. Please use the search feature before creating a new thread on a topic that might already exist. Please continue your discussion in an existing thread. This will keep all the relevant information in one place and make it easier for readers in the future.

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