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Old 26th July 2010, 20:33   #4021
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Originally Posted by Mr. Nobody View Post
10000 is quite a high price even for original philips HID. they are available here for around 7k . instead of spending 10k on just hid why not go for projectors . on lo beam they dont cause glare and also have great light output and looks .
Hi Nobody
Thanks for the reply.Could you please elaborate on "original Philips HID"?
The one I saw was also original as far as I know. The whole assembly costs 10K.
I thought I would go for it since one of my friends fitted it for his Civic from Kerala. Honda guys did that for him. He also had to shell out almost the same amout,

Quote:
Originally Posted by naveen.raju View Post
Philips HIDs will be expensive. You can try the projectors if they are available for SX4
Naveen,
Could you please let me know the difference between projectors and HID? I am quite confused.

Why I am keen on getting it done from Maruti itself is for the simple reason to avoid the warranty getting nullified.
Since the time I bought SX4 (Today is it's 1st birthday. Happy birthday my SX4. )
I have been inquiring with various Marut dealers in B'lore. One simple answer "Sir, it's not legal. So Maruti will not help in installing. On top of it, they all would end up saying warranty will be void if you install from outside".

Now that dealers themselves are installing I don't need to worry about warrant issue.

Eagerly awaiting for the response on difference between projector lamps and Xenon. Pointing to a link also would do.
Thanks in advance,
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Old 27th July 2010, 09:57   #4022
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Originally Posted by bkbkr1212 View Post
Hi Nobody
Thanks for the reply.Could you please elaborate on "original Philips HID"?
The one I saw was also original as far as I know. The whole assembly costs 10K.
I thought I would go for it since one of my friends fitted it for his Civic from Kerala. Honda guys did that for him. He also had to shell out almost the same amout,


Naveen,
Could you please let me know the difference between projectors and HID? I am quite confused.

Why I am keen on getting it done from Maruti itself is for the simple reason to avoid the warranty getting nullified.
Since the time I bought SX4 (Today is it's 1st birthday. Happy birthday my SX4. )
I have been inquiring with various Marut dealers in B'lore. One simple answer "Sir, it's not legal. So Maruti will not help in installing. On top of it, they all would end up saying warranty will be void if you install from outside".

Now that dealers themselves are installing I don't need to worry about warrant issue.

Eagerly awaiting for the response on difference between projector lamps and Xenon. Pointing to a link also would do.
Thanks in advance,
@bk.

Projectors are basically headlight assembly unit that helps to projector the light. Unlike normal stock reflector headlights, these projector setup projects the light onto a particular area. See the sample projector headlight unit for SX4.

HID's are "High Intensity Discharge" bulbs. Unlike normal bulbs, these do not have any tungsten filament and the light is usually produced with the help of an arc. This means, less heat, more light, more life. See image for different HID for different headlight assemblies.

HID's are recommended to be used in projector headlights since the maximum output can be attained here.

You can check out my thread "Swift Custom Modz" for a video. It shows the light output and the area of the light being projected.

Adding a projector setup wont void your car's warranty. (I got mine installed in 6 months after purchasing my car). Since wires are not cut, there's no problem of affecting the warranty. Projectors are just plug n play device(to be more precise, just like how you connect your phone to your laptop). A ballast(device that provided high power for the bulb to work) is included which is connected to the battery and the other end to the headlight (Projectors).

The total cost can come around 15k (depending upon the car) which includes projector headlight, HID's, ballast.

Anyways, hope this helped clear some of your doubts.
PS - Am not an expert in this, but I came to learn all these since I had this problem when going for projectors for my ride. Did some solid R&D and finally had the confidence of getting one.

Cheers.!
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Old 27th July 2010, 11:33   #4023
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[quote=naveen.raju;1998518]@bk.

Projectors are basically headlight assembly unit that helps to projector the light. Unlike normal stock reflector headlights, these projector setup projects the light onto a particular area. See the sample projector headlight unit for SX4.

Hi Naveen,
First of all thanks for the detailed reply

HID's are "High Intensity Discharge" bulbs. Unlike normal bulbs, these do not have any tungsten filament and the light is usually produced with the help of an arc. This means, less heat, more light, more life. See image for different HID for different headlight assemblies.
Could you please let me know which variant of HID I should go for? Does it depend on the the car one is driving?

HID's are recommended to be used in projector headlights since the maximum output can be attained here.
Just wanted to get this point confirmed. Does the above statement mean HIDs are supposed to be used in conjunction with projector headlights? Can't HIDs be fitted without projector headlights? If yes, do you any obvious disadvantages?

You can check out my thread "Swift Custom Modz" for a video. It shows the light output and the area of the light being projected.

Adding a projector setup wont void your car's warranty. (I got mine installed in 6 months after purchasing my car). Since wires are not cut, there's no problem of affecting the warranty. Projectors are just plug n play device(to be more precise, just like how you connect your phone to your laptop). A ballast(device that provided high power for the bulb to work) is included which is connected to the battery and the other end to the headlight (Projectors).

What's the cost of the projector assembly unit?

The total cost can come around 15k (depending upon the car) which includes projector headlight, HID's, ballast.

Oops. The cost I was told for Philips 4300K HID Xenon was 10.5K. Sorry for being naive on this, but this will not contain projector assembly, right?

Anyways, hope this helped clear some of your doubts.
PS - Am not an expert in this, but I came to learn all these since I had this problem when going for projectors for my ride. Did some solid R&D and finally had the confidence of getting one.

Yes, I think I also need to do some R&D before getting this done.. Thanks once again for answering the queries.


Best regards,
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Old 27th July 2010, 13:03   #4024
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I am planning to fix fog lamps on my santro, I have seen 2 -3 santro's with fog lamps throwing white lights along with headlamp.

I have already have installed Philips essential vision 90/100(whitish throw) with relay kit 19 months ago and they are running absolutely fine.

1 which fog lamps to go for ?

2. if i opt for fog lamp with white light will it require additional relay if the bulb
watt is high or same relay can be used ?
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Old 27th July 2010, 14:17   #4025
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[quote=bkbkr1212;1998674]
Quote:
Originally Posted by naveen.raju View Post
@bk.

Projectors are basically headlight assembly unit that helps to projector the light. Unlike normal stock reflector headlights, these projector setup projects the light onto a particular area. See the sample projector headlight unit for SX4.

Hi Naveen,
First of all thanks for the detailed reply

HID's are "High Intensity Discharge" bulbs. Unlike normal bulbs, these do not have any tungsten filament and the light is usually produced with the help of an arc. This means, less heat, more light, more life. See image for different HID for different headlight assemblies.
Could you please let me know which variant of HID I should go for? Does it depend on the the car one is driving?

HID's are recommended to be used in projector headlights since the maximum output can be attained here.
Just wanted to get this point confirmed. Does the above statement mean HIDs are supposed to be used in conjunction with projector headlights? Can't HIDs be fitted without projector headlights? If yes, do you any obvious disadvantages?

You can check out my thread "Swift Custom Modz" for a video. It shows the light output and the area of the light being projected.

Adding a projector setup wont void your car's warranty. (I got mine installed in 6 months after purchasing my car). Since wires are not cut, there's no problem of affecting the warranty. Projectors are just plug n play device(to be more precise, just like how you connect your phone to your laptop). A ballast(device that provided high power for the bulb to work) is included which is connected to the battery and the other end to the headlight (Projectors).

What's the cost of the projector assembly unit?

The total cost can come around 15k (depending upon the car) which includes projector headlight, HID's, ballast.

Oops. The cost I was told for Philips 4300K HID Xenon was 10.5K. Sorry for being naive on this, but this will not contain projector assembly, right?

Anyways, hope this helped clear some of your doubts.
PS - Am not an expert in this, but I came to learn all these since I had this problem when going for projectors for my ride. Did some solid R&D and finally had the confidence of getting one.

Yes, I think I also need to do some R&D before getting this done.. Thanks once again for answering the queries.


Best regards,

@bk:

Find my answers below.

Could you please let me know which variant of HID I should go for? Does it depend on the the car one is driving?
It depends on the headlight assembly. I currently use H9 HID's. The stock swift had H4, but my projector supports H9. The installer can identify this.

Does the above statement mean HIDs are supposed to be used in conjunction with projector headlights? Can't HIDs be fitted without projector headlights? If yes, do you any obvious disadvantages?
HID's provides the best output when used with projectors. Using HID's in stock headlights will scatter the light throw which means a lot of usable light will be wasted. In projectors, these light beams will be well projected without scattering. But, many fellow bhpians are using Philips HID's on stock headlights and are satisfied. Get it done from a genuine installer and you can have a brilliant output even on stock headlights. Other disadvantage is that, since HID's are really bright and have a scattered light pattern, it will blind the oncoming vehicles. This attracts the cops. So you will have to be careful on that.

What's the cost of the projector assembly unit?
It depends. I havent actually seen projectors on SX4. So guess you will have to import it or get it custom made from genuine car mod shops. I guess there are many shops offering projectors for all major cars today. Since I drive a Swift, getting projectors for my ride was easy. But since I went in for a new model, I had some hard time finding one. I got mine for 13k.

Oops. The cost I was told for Philips 4300K HID Xenon was 10.5K. Sorry for being naive on this, but this will not contain projector assembly, right?
No, this will have a pair of HID bulbs, a pair of Ballast kit and wires.

I would recommend you to stick with Philips 4300k HID's, since they are the best one currently available. Although, you need to chip in an extra cash, it's worth. Take my word.
Also, please go for 4300k bulbs only. These are the legal ones and provides the best output. Any bulbs with higher temp rating will be treated as illegal.

one question, does your car have separate bulbs for high and low beam? If so, you need to install HID's for low and keep the high beam as stock. This is safe. Also, you can save money by not going for HID's for High beam since we rarely use high beams.

Anyways, let me know if you need anything else.

Cheers.
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Old 27th July 2010, 15:51   #4026
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naveen.raju View Post

one question, does your car have separate bulbs for high and low beam? If so, you need to install HID's for low and keep the high beam as stock. This is safe. Also, you can save money by not going for HID's for High beam since we rarely use high beams.

Anyways, let me know if you need anything else.

Cheers.
Naveen.raju, I have been following your conversation. Since I am also contemplating on going for a HID kit for my Safari. Your last statement kinda got me confused. I thought that in city you dont really need too much bright light. Meaning, low beams of stocks are good enough. But for highway driving, powerful high beams are needed. So wont it be a better idea to use HID for high beam and stock for low beam? I am not an expert though, pls forgive my ignorance
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Old 28th July 2010, 10:26   #4027
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Originally Posted by NiTviN View Post
Naveen.raju, I have been following your conversation. Since I am also contemplating on going for a HID kit for my Safari. Your last statement kinda got me confused. I thought that in city you dont really need too much bright light. Meaning, low beams of stocks are good enough. But for highway driving, powerful high beams are needed. So wont it be a better idea to use HID for high beam and stock for low beam? I am not an expert though, pls forgive my ignorance
Thanks for your question.
Yes, it's kinda strange but this is true. The main reason is that using HID's in high is actually illegal. For eg, in Altis, you have 4300k HID's in low and normal stocks in high. Same with Laura and other cars.
Another reason, there's this extra cost factor. Extra hids means extra set of ballast which may or can drain the battery(am not sure on this).
In my case, my projector setup got a single bulb and I use HIDs.
From my experience, I dont find anything exciting in using HIDs in High, but felt the difference when it's in low. The spread and the close intensity is really great.
You can actually see the working of my ride if you check out my thread.
But, if you are willing to spend some cash, you can try them out.
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Old 28th July 2010, 12:23   #4028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naveen.raju View Post
You can actually see the working of my ride if you check out my thread.
But, if you are willing to spend some cash, you can try them out.
Oh ok, makes sense. Thanks for the info. One more question. The Hella ones which are normally mounted on the bull bars of SUVs, are they also HID or they are just higher voltage halogens? I suppose these are used for highway driving?
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Old 28th July 2010, 14:05   #4029
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Originally Posted by NiTviN View Post
Oh ok, makes sense. Thanks for the info. One more question. The Hella ones which are normally mounted on the bull bars of SUVs, are they also HID or they are just higher voltage halogens? I suppose these are used for highway driving?
These are generally higher rated bulbs. But, you can go for HID's too. Kindly confirm on this.
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Old 29th July 2010, 16:54   #4030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naveen.raju View Post
Thanks for your question.
Yes, it's kinda strange but this is true. The main reason is that using HID's in high is actually illegal. For eg, in Altis, you have 4300k HID's in low and normal stocks in high. Same with Laura and other cars.
Another reason, there's this extra cost factor. Extra hids means extra set of ballast which may or can drain the battery(am not sure on this).
In my case, my projector setup got a single bulb and I use HIDs.
From my experience, I dont find anything exciting in using HIDs in High, but felt the difference when it's in low. The spread and the close intensity is really great.
You can actually see the working of my ride if you check out my thread.
But, if you are willing to spend some cash, you can try them out.
Hi Naveen,
I am sorry to trouble you again and again.
Just want to be sure I am on the right side of the law and also I don't want to spend 10-15K on headlamps and a cop asking me to change it.
(Cops, for some strange reason don't like me. They ask to pull me over for something or other. My wife always says that is because the moment i see a cop, I start to look them from the corner of my eyes to check what they are up to and to jack my head up more, wife starts laughing. She says when I do that I have the face of a petty thief )

OK, too much of unwanted gibberish. Coming back to the topic of lighting
I was browsing the below site
Philips Lighting India - White Light

They have mentioned about all kind of lamps including HID but no mention on RTO approval.
But when I browsed H4 - Philips Bulbs from Power Bulbs
this one they have given in detail whether a particular variant is approved or not.
For eg:-
Philips Diamond Vision H4 5000K Xenon/HID effect
>>5000K - high colour temperature
>> Distinctive blue light
>> Xenon/HID styling
>>NOT road legal within the EU

Philips Blue Vision H4 4000K Xenon/HID effect
Auto Express 'Best Buy' (Blue category)
>> 30% more light
>> White light with blue tint to oncoming traffic
>> Fully road legal within the EU
see more»


So one last time Naveen, could you please advice on whether I should go for HID? If not HID, what can I consider as other option?
Upgrading to 100/90 is also not legal,I believe.
One of our fello T-BHPians has offered me to sell his spare bi-xenon projector.
But I remember you or nirmal mentioning that there's no projector assembly for SX4.

I am thoroughly confused. This will be my last question on lighting. I don't want to irritate anyone here
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Old 29th July 2010, 17:20   #4031
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Originally Posted by bkbkr1212 View Post
Hi Naveen,
I am sorry to trouble you again and again.
Just want to be sure I am on the right side of the law and also I don't want to spend 10-15K on headlamps and a cop asking me to change it.
(Cops, for some strange reason don't like me. They ask to pull me over for something or other. My wife always says that is because the moment i see a cop, I start to look them from the corner of my eyes to check what they are up to and to jack my head up more, wife starts laughing. She says when I do that I have the face of a petty thief )

OK, too much of unwanted gibberish. Coming back to the topic of lighting
I was browsing the below site
Philips Lighting India - White Light

They have mentioned about all kind of lamps including HID but no mention on RTO approval.
But when I browsed H4 - Philips Bulbs from Power Bulbs
this one they have given in detail whether a particular variant is approved or not.
For eg:-
Philips Diamond Vision H4 5000K Xenon/HID effect
>>5000K - high colour temperature
>> Distinctive blue light
>> Xenon/HID styling
>>NOT road legal within the EU

Philips Blue Vision H4 4000K Xenon/HID effect
Auto Express 'Best Buy' (Blue category)
>> 30% more light
>> White light with blue tint to oncoming traffic
>> Fully road legal within the EU
see more»


So one last time Naveen, could you please advice on whether I should go for HID? If not HID, what can I consider as other option?
Upgrading to 100/90 is also not legal,I believe.
One of our fello T-BHPians has offered me to sell his spare bi-xenon projector.
But I remember you or nirmal mentioning that there's no projector assembly for SX4.

I am thoroughly confused. This will be my last question on lighting. I don't want to irritate anyone here
Thanks for your question.

Coming to higher rated bulbs. Please note that many of these products promise that they provide almost 90% light output as that of HIDs but that's not true. I have personally used these bulbs and didnt feel the effect of the HID's. Philips might be the best since I had used Osram.

These are not legal as well since they have higher output rating. 4300k HIDs are actually legal, but it's kinda hard to convince our cops. Moreover, SX4 got a single bulbs so you will have to be careful while using high beams specially since you are from Blore.

I suggest you to go for 4300k HID's since the light output is not pure white as you see in many cars. These are white light with a tinge of yellow(street legal). You can see the color from my video if you missed it.

If you have trouble going for projectors, stay with HID's and switch over to projectors when you have the budget. But please note, although the stock headlights and projectors have a single bulb setup, the bulb configuration will be different. Many members faced this situation. they initially got HID's for stock and decided to keep this for projectors and when they finally went for projectors they came to know that projectors had a different bulb config. So, HID's were a complete waste. So you will have to be careful on this. I think SX4 got H4 bulbs, while projectors may have H9, H11. My car had H4 in stock and H9 in projectors. So kindly confirm with the fellow bhpian on the bulb config. If it's same, you can install them at a later stage.

Once you have the projectors, you will have to modify the existing headlight assembly. Basically, cutting the reflectors and fixing the projectors. You will need one expert and should make sure that he is experienced with these kinda installs. Else, you can try to source readymade projectors headlight assembly (full headlight set) from abroad and try if any shops got these.
Maybe you can try calling up few shops which are in Delhi who are into projectors. Remember seeing the ads in Autocar magazine.

Let me know what you think
No issues on pointing your doubts. That's why we all are here. So keep shooting more questions if you have

Cheers Mate.!
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Old 29th July 2010, 17:45   #4032
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BK - Ive been running Philips 6000K H4 HID's on my Swift for the last one year without any issues from cops, scattering of light etc.
Just last week also upgraded the ANHC too, with the same kit. I got it for 8.5 K from AK Traders the Philips authorized distributor from JC Road & the installation was done for 300 Rs at Sprocket in Koramangala.
Both are running on the stock headlight only ! Scattering happens in the cheap Chinese kits only. Philips nowhere mentions that projectors are needed, though if you have them, its good, the focusing will be a bit better.

If you want to see the result, PM me & we can meet & i can show you the same !

I have never been caught by cops for the HID's ! But i drive around only on low beam in city though ! The box has a small disclaimer which says that its for off road use only, but Philips are still selling the same all over the place !

IMO, bulbs of different colors & types are a waste of time, you will only get an incremental increase in light on the road. Install HID once & forget about it, not to mention the huge increase in light on the road for your safety !

Last edited by nirmaljusdoit : 29th July 2010 at 17:47.
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Old 29th July 2010, 17:50   #4033
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Originally Posted by naveen.raju View Post
Thanks for your question.

Coming to higher rated bulbs. Please note that many of these products promise that they provide almost 90% light output as that of HIDs but that's not true. I have personally used these bulbs and didnt feel the effect of the HID's. Philips might be the best since I had used Osram.

These are not legal as well since they have higher output rating. 4300k HIDs are actually legal, but it's kinda hard to convince our cops. Moreover, SX4 got a single bulbs so you will have to be careful while using high beams specially since you are from Blore.

I suggest you to go for 4300k HID's since the light output is not pure white as you see in many cars. These are white light with a tinge of yellow(street legal). You can see the color from my video if you missed it.

If you have trouble going for projectors, stay with HID's and switch over to projectors when you have the budget. But please note, although the stock headlights and projectors have a single bulb setup, the bulb configuration will be different. Many members faced this situation. they initially got HID's for stock and decided to keep this for projectors and when they finally went for projectors they came to know that projectors had a different bulb config. So, HID's were a complete waste. So you will have to be careful on this. I think SX4 got H4 bulbs, while projectors may have H9, H11. My car had H4 in stock and H9 in projectors. So kindly confirm with the fellow bhpian on the bulb config. If it's same, you can install them at a later stage.

Once you have the projectors, you will have to modify the existing headlight assembly. Basically, cutting the reflectors and fixing the projectors. You will need one expert and should make sure that he is experienced with these kinda installs. Else, you can try to source readymade projectors headlight assembly (full headlight set) from abroad and try if any shops got these.
Maybe you can try calling up few shops which are in Delhi who are into projectors. Remember seeing the ads in Autocar magazine.

Let me know what you think
No issues on pointing your doubts. That's why we all are here. So keep shooting more questions if you have

Cheers Mate.!
Hi Naveen,
Thanks for such a detailed reply and for the patience too.
I had called up Maruti dealer. When I queried about projector setup they didn't have much clue.
So I think for the time being, I'll go for 4300K H4 (not 6000K).
Does it sound OK to you?
I saw in the same Philips site(http://www.lighting.philips.co.in/v2...n,SilverVision and 2 others in WhiteLight category.Xenon HID standard comes under UltimateLight.
Does it make sense to go for one of the Whitelights? If yes, could you please suggest which one?

Thanks in advance,
BR
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Old 29th July 2010, 18:57   #4034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nirmaljusdoit View Post
BK - Ive been running Philips 6000K H4 HID's on my Swift for the last one year without any issues from cops, scattering of light etc.
! Scattering happens in the cheap Chinese kits only. Philips nowhere mentions that projectors are needed, though if you have them, its good, the focusing will be a bit better.
misconception that scattering happens only in chinese Kits .nowadays chines kits are well made with exact focal lengths of xenon arcs that are as good as OEM kits .only difference is oem quality is little better and they do have less color shifting on their bulbs .

nearly all Hids in reflectors do scatter light a bit as they are designed keeping in mind halogen usage . amount varies from reflector design .some have less while others cause a lot of glare even in lo beam . how did you check for scattering btw ? let someone else drive car and stand on road at far distance to see it best .
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Old 29th July 2010, 19:10   #4035
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Originally Posted by Mr. Nobody View Post
misconception that scattering happens only in chinese Kits .nowadays chines kits are well made with exact focal lengths of xenon arcs that are as good as OEM kits .only difference is oem quality is little better and they do have less color shifting on their bulbs .

nearly all Hids in reflectors do scatter light a bit as they are designed keeping in mind halogen usage . amount varies from reflector design .some have less while others cause a lot of glare even in lo beam . how did you check for scattering btw ? let someone else drive car and stand on road at far distance to see it best .
Have heard & seen the maximum number of complaints from these type of kits only !. No doubt some good stuff comes out of China, thats why i have mentioned cheap chinese kits !

By scattering i mean the light falling on the road in the best possible angle & distance. HID's being intensely bright, there would surely be some light going here & there, but not so much as to have major issues. Also have checked by making some one else drive it too !
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