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Old 28th January 2011, 11:18   #16
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Default re: V-Box update of my Honda City VTEC. 0-100 kph in 7.47 secs!!

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Originally Posted by ssjr0498 View Post
The stock FD of a vtec is 4.05 Joel is using a 4.25.
Hmmm. So the overall gearing is now shorter.

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The numbers will fall further very soon. As Joel said, if here were to lighten the car, he would have gained a couple of tenth's itself.
Man, having driven the OHC Vtec for 7 years, there is nothing that comes close to its "connected" feeling and M-A-D, revv happy engine. Before I eventually sold mine, I had plans to strip everything of it (including replacing the doors with plastic). Target weight was <800 kilos . Oh well, some other time I guess.

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Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
Considering most drag spec Honda Vtecs in the country are in the sub 8 secs territory, I've got it with street tune and not much sweat or fancy money. No compression, no internals nor fancy fuel. Have spot-on AFRs and the whole sequence was done with my own logics.
You've only proven how important it is to get the fundamentals right. The gap between your car and a turbo-charged OHC is slim!!

How much would your Vtec show on the same dyno that mine did a 106 WHP?

More important than the timing is how much fun your car must be to drive. Stock Vtec still has an unbeaten 0 - 100 time of all current C segment sedans. That engine must be wicked in your state of tune.

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On a stock Honda City Vtec, with just the limiter bumped to peak 100kph in 2nd gear itself, wont shave you too much. More like 0.2 - 0.3 secs. Not a full second.
Releasing Clutch -> shifting gear -> Engaging gear has got to take atleast 0.5 seconds? Unless you powershift, but then that's really stressful on your mechanicals.

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I was clocking 8.8 secs to 100kph with stock gearbox, stock ECU, stock airbox, manifold etc and just my custom exhaust.
My Vtec regularly did sub-9 times too. Then, I upgraded my tyres to 205s (seriously overkill on a Vtec) and times dropped. What rubber are you running? Can we have pictures of your car?

Last edited by GTO : 28th January 2011 at 11:21.
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Old 28th January 2011, 13:10   #17
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Default Re: V-Box update of my Honda City VTEC. 0-100 kph in 7.47 secs!!

Yes GTO, the involvement of the Vtec is unmatched by any other engine. In my current state of tune, its super wicked. Super sleeper and its a mad rush when you floor the pedal.
On the same dyno as yours, I should be making some 25 horses atleast more. When we removed the correction factors on the RRP dyno it was rated approx ~140hp. To put it, A Civic makes 82bhp on the same dyno while the claimed figure is 140hp at crank. I'm at 95whp. Dyno numbers make less sense than V-box figures, so I trust on-road performance more than making it a mere dyno queen.
I'm running stock alloys with 195/60 x 14 Hankook RS2.
Pics.
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Old 28th January 2011, 13:13   #18
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Default Re: V-Box update of my Honda City VTEC. 0-100 kph in 7.47 secs!!

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
You've only proven how important it is to get the fundamentals right. The gap between your car and a turbo-charged OHC is slim!!

How much would your Vtec show on the same dyno that mine did a 106 WHP?

My Vtec regularly did sub-9 times too. Then, I upgraded my tyres to 205s (seriously overkill on a Vtec) and times dropped. What rubber are you running? Can we have pictures of your car?
True. The difference is slim i guess till the first few secs. If we put the difference in a graph, i think the difference is not linear. One thing is even a crude turbo install can give significant gains. But good job like this needs some serious design job. 205s are necessary evils. I too run Ventus RS2. Nice but noisy.

Last edited by kutlee : 28th January 2011 at 13:15.
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Old 28th January 2011, 16:36   #19
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Default Re: V-Box update of my Honda City VTEC. 0-100 kph in 7.47 secs!!

Congrats Fieroid

is this car running a half-pipe - because the end can is missing? Congrats again - drive safe
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Old 28th January 2011, 19:34   #20
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Default Re: V-Box update of my Honda City VTEC. 0-100 kph in 7.47 secs!!

My exhaust ends right below the gearstick. Its very uncoventional and loud at high revs. But all I care is performance.
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Old 28th January 2011, 22:47   #21
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Default Re: V-Box update of my Honda City VTEC. 0-100 kph in 7.47 secs!!

Saw a similar exhaust setup like fieroid mentions on the EZen which did 14.XX in the Mumbai drags. What are the pros and cons?
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Old 29th January 2011, 07:37   #22
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Default Re: V-Box update of my Honda City VTEC. 0-100 kph in 7.47 secs!!

Joel, is this setup as reliable as your R15 (super reliable like your test from bangalore to chennai ride)?

And also, with the full length exhaust will the same tune remain?

~koli.
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Old 29th January 2011, 11:45   #23
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Default Re: V-Box update of my Honda City VTEC. 0-100 kph in 7.47 secs!!

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Originally Posted by kolimuttai View Post
Joel, is this setup as reliable as your R15 (super reliable like your test from bangalore to chennai ride)?

And also, with the full length exhaust will the same tune remain?

~koli.
Yes da. There is hardly any stress on the engine and the internals are all stock. Stress points will come-up only even I push to double the limits in NA mode. These D engines are very strong and with the right tune, I can get it to be very reliable with a lot more power.
Its my daily drive and I dont ride a bike at all. To have done 4 trips already in the last 3 weeks and clocked 4600kms since the headwork, and 2 trips with family is very reliable I guess . I get an FE of 12kmpl in city and around 15 on highways with part AC and cruise at 120 odd. In-gear acceleration and grunt in 5th gear takes the cake on the highway.
I could extend the exhaust till the end, but this is just too racy and gives me better throttle response. Being a 4 X 1, it still beats any 4 x 2 x 1 system in low down torque figs as well and yet reserving all the grunt for top-whack. That was my emphasize with this design of mine. I dont wish to disturb the harmony by making it longer. Downside is, its quite loud!
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Old 29th January 2011, 17:36   #24
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Default Re: V-Box update of my Honda City VTEC. 0-100 kph in 7.47 secs!!

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Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
On the same dyno as yours, I should be making some 25 horses atleast more.
Net net, how much do you estimate your crank horsepower at? 140?

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I'm running stock alloys with 195/60 x 14 Hankook RS2.
Pics.
A sleeper if I ever saw one. I'm sure you've left many a modded Civic shocked

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Originally Posted by kutlee View Post
i think the difference is not linear. One thing is even a crude turbo install can give significant gains.
But kutlee, how long will a crude turbo last? How reliable will it be? Horsepower hungry boost always has a lot of lag too. Given a choice, I'd anyday prefer naturally-aspirated horses to an after-market turbo. It's so difficult to find someone who can do a clean, pro-grade job (atleast in Bombay). The only outfit I'd consider for blowing my Civic is Red Rooster Racing, and they are a good 1,200 kms away from me (but thinking of the drive back makes it seem logical ).

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205s are necessary evils. I too run Ventus RS2. Nice but noisy.
I honestly thought 205s were overkill for the Vtec. She lost her agility with large wheels & thick tyres.

Fieroid would have never managed such a time if he was running heavy 16 inch wheels + 205 rubber. In fact, I'm willing to bet that his time will improve even further with good 185 mm tyres on the same wheels.
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Old 29th January 2011, 18:12   #25
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Default Re: V-Box update of my Honda City VTEC. 0-100 kph in 7.47 secs!!

Wow 400mtrs@148kmph. That trap speed is good for a 15.2-15.4sec run.

0-160kmph in 21 secs is also a massive improvement. A whole 12 secs quicker than a stock VTEC.

All this, without a cam and at 3,000ft above sea level, is insane. Just goes to show how restrictive the intake and exhaust units are, on the stock car.

Imagine this engine with a stage 3 cam and valve train. It'l give some turbocharged cars a run for their money.

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The fastest clocked of any NA Honda City in the country is 14.8x secs and the next best is 15.3x secs by our own forum member ssjr.
Actually, Mihir Dharkar's time of 15.1 or 15.2 is 2nd best. Not surprisingly, all the 4 fastest times (including Wolf's 15.4) were done by OHC VTECs. What a car!!!

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 29th January 2011 at 18:22.
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Old 29th January 2011, 18:19   #26
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Default Re: V-Box update of my Honda City VTEC. 0-100 kph in 7.47 secs!!

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
But kutlee, how long will a crude turbo last? How reliable will it be? Horsepower hungry boost always has a lot of lag too. Given a choice, I'd anyday prefer naturally-aspirated horses to an after-market turbo. It's so difficult to find someone who can do a clean, pro-grade job (atleast in Bombay). The only outfit I'd consider for blowing my Civic is Red Rooster Racing, and they are a good 1,200 kms away from me (but thinking of the drive back makes it seem logical ).
Agreed Sir. I would not recommend turbo. Come to RRP if you liked it.
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Old 30th January 2011, 01:21   #27
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Default Re: V-Box update of my Honda City VTEC. 0-100 kph in 7.47 secs!!

@GTO - I am currently making around 140bhp at the crank and I'm not at sea-level yet. On the bombay dyno, figures will look quite nice.
What I needed was a clean and stock looking sleeper car and I've always never wanted anything fancy. FYI, the stock wheels are very heavy at 20kilos including the 195s. A light weight Enkei or Lenso will be atleast 3-4 kilos lighter which will make a massive diff in acceleration and overall performance. Wolf is running super light 4-spoke Lenso.
I've tried 185s and it simply wont hold the acceleration. No point wasting time spinning out. Can only help if its a roll-on acceleration. I'll never run 16s, max will be 15s if I ever wish to. Makes no sense.

@Shantanu - Thanks man. Its about 20.8 secs to 160kph and the car was loaded with nearly full tank gas as well. I had to work a lot on the whole intake/exhaust system to perfect the flow dynamics and with everything else falling in place, i could pull this off. Challenge was to pull under 8 secs without any internals and I'm happy with what I've achieved. I have a little more work in the cylinder head(my last attempt was frankly half-hearted according to me) and other stuff to pull out another 5-7whp on the same RRP dyno and clock nearly 7secs flat with some more changes. All with the same internals again and with the 4.25FD. Wondering if I should do it or not or do a skip-level tune.
Oh ya, I forgot about Mihir Dharkar. Yeah, he did an early 15 secs at mumbai. Shrey could have also done that at sea level or maybe better.
Yes man, this sx8 aka Type Z aka City is one hell of machine.

Joel

Last edited by fieroid : 30th January 2011 at 01:24.
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Old 30th January 2011, 23:13   #28
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Default Re: V-Box update of my Honda City VTEC. 0-100 kph in 7.47 secs!!

Smoked a certain BMW 320D today on the Outer Ring Road, from a rolling 30-40kph start all the way till about 170kph. First pulled away with the stock ECU and then the difference was massive when I turned on my ECU. Nowhere did the 320D have a chance. Impressive and I'm happy with my sleeper.
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Old 31st January 2011, 01:06   #29
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Default Re: V-Box update of my Honda City VTEC. 0-100 kph in 7.47 secs!!

Quote:
I had to work a lot on the whole intake/exhaust system to perfect the flow dynamics and with everything else falling in place, i could pull this off. Challenge was to pull under 8 secs without any internals and I'm happy with what I've achieved. I have a little more work in the cylinder head(my last attempt was frankly half-hearted according to me) and other stuff to pull out another 5-7whp on the same RRP dyno and clock nearly 7secs flat with some more changes. All with the same internals again
I guess the biggest difference here is that most cars in the past have been tuned with guesstimated bhp figures. Without knowing what an engine is doing, it was never gonna be possible to extract the best performance out of it.

Quote:
Smoked a certain BMW 320D today on the Outer Ring Road, from a rolling 30-40kph start all the way till about 170kph. First pulled away with the stock ECU and then the difference was massive when I turned on my ECU. Nowhere did the 320D have a chance. Impressive and I'm happy with my sleeper.
Last time we raced, you were 3 car lengths ahead at 160kmph. Next time, i'l be lucky if i can stay within visible range. LOL

Shan2nu
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Old 31st January 2011, 11:15   #30
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Default Re: V-Box update of my Honda City VTEC. 0-100 kph in 7.47 secs!!

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Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
I guess the biggest difference here is that most cars in the past have been tuned with guesstimated bhp figures. Without knowing what an engine is doing, it was never gonna be possible to extract the best performance out of it.



Last time we raced, you were 3 car lengths ahead at 160kmph. Next time, i'l be lucky if i can stay within visible range. LOL
Lets see when you come down here Shantanu .
The scene was the same with bikes 7-8 yrs ago when I saw that everybody was shooting in the dark and there was a commanding monopoly by a chosen few. My target was to break the myth and make affordable and reliable horsepower and top the racing charts. Took up 4-stroke tuning as a challenge while the whole country was swearing on 2-stroke power.
The scene was the same with the cars as well. Too many myths to break.
When I decided to build my car, I was told by everybody in business that a 4 x 1 will never work, this wont work, that wont work, you need to spend years tuning to get there etc. And you cant get such performance without spending lakhs and putting fancy internals. I could only do what I could afford and I decided to work around my way. I'm confident to pull a 7 secs flat or even a 6.9secs to 100kph with better tyres with some more work to my engine, without changing any internals. We have 3 T-bhpians who are visible proof to my build, to just ensure I'm not talking BS. Let me plan my next upgrade soon and rush to a dyno.
Need more braking bite now, the stock brakes now feel slightly faded. Changed to honda Nissin pads at front, gotta check the rear. Next up is also a clean outer-body spray to remove the dents left by the previous owner and make it a clean sleeper. Might build a carbon-fibre matt hood with an intake scoop. Lemme work out my options. Hoping to turn it into a hot-sleeper .
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