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Old 7th August 2009, 08:59   #1831
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Originally Posted by mukaan View Post
Thanks Sawyer.
Thanks a tonne. The Manual says I should be using API SJ Grade SAE 15W 40 oil to be changed every 10000Kms.

I am not moving my baby without the oil change. Thats for sure.
You are welcome.
And I am a little surprised at the SJ reference in the manual, that is gasoline ( petrol ) engine spec. Diesel engine oil specs start with a C, as in CD/CF/CF4/CH4 etc etc. GMI probably did not update the manual when they plonked in the turbodiesel in the car. But since yours is a diesel, the RX Super plus in 15W40 grade, changed every 6 months with the filter should do fine. Or equivalent at the same price. Pay more only to keep your head in good shape about what is in the engine! And make sure you do not fill in even a mm over the max mark on the dipstick, there is a separate thread on just this!
And for the other subsequent comments - it is not just about engines breaking down, or sludge formation, that is like terminal cancer. The six monthly oil change benefits are subtler and seen over longer durations, as in trouble free running for 200000 kms without opening the head, less loss of power over that period, better fuel economy, and so on. Just because terminal cancer does not always happen is no reason to not eat right and exercise for a better quality of life.
PS: And, what I suspect is not so widely known. Always let the engine idle for a minute, preferably two, after a normal to high speed run that is longer than 15 minutes, before shutting it off. The turbo spins at very high rpms and temperatures inside it and if you idle the engine, the turbo spins down to rest while the engine oil continues to circulate inside it, cooling it down to the oil temp. If you shut the engine off right away, the oil circulation stops, and residual oil inside the turbo sticks to the internals as burnt out oil, ie, carbon. Quick way to ruin the turbocharger if you keep doing this. Messes up the engine too, as the damaged oil that can still flow, gets back to the sump.

Last edited by Sawyer : 7th August 2009 at 09:09.
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Old 7th August 2009, 09:38   #1832
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Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
There is no way Sludge can form in a DDIS/ MJD diesel engines within 7-8 K Kms if you are using Mobil Delvac MX or Super as FIAT has recommended 15K kms as their service interval for the same engine on their G. Punto. If what you say is true then 90% of Punto will come for breakdown maintenance even before they complete the second 15k kms (Assuming there are 3 services in first 15k kms).
If I had done that distance in 12 months, I would not risk my engine life by waiting till 15k was done. No matter what Fiat said. All they are worried about is performance in the warranty period, as a car owner, I want my engine to last for ten years without lifting the cylinder head.
And if you read the manual fully, there may well be a rider to the 15k recommendation, under severe operating conditions. I haven't read it, so I can only guess at what it says, but I suggest you look it up, if it exists. It did for the many cars I have owned till now, and it continues even in the one I bought last month.
And if I had done the distance of 7-8k in 6 months, in stop start city driving, I would change the oil at that time.
For reasons stated elsewhere in this thread. Because I look to own my cars for more than the typical 4-5 years that seems to becoming the norm in India.
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Old 7th August 2009, 09:42   #1833
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I have switched over from Mineral to semi-synth, from Castrol GTX to Castro Magnatec, and I don't know if it my mind playing games with me, but I do feel that the Engine is smoother with Magnatech.
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Old 7th August 2009, 09:51   #1834
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I have learned from this thread that it is better to make the switch to semi or full synth oils after 10,000 KM in a new car. What is the sanctity of this number? Why not as soon as the run in period (according to owner's manual) is over? After all, all driving restrictions seem to end at this stage, even though we tend to observe some restraint for another 1000 KM or two.
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Old 7th August 2009, 10:01   #1835
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Originally Posted by musicmanaman View Post
I have switched over from Mineral to semi-synth, from Castrol GTX to Castro Magnatec, and I don't know if it my mind playing games with me, but I do feel that the Engine is smoother with Magnatech.
If you can afford it, and you feel good about it, why not?! The only point I have been trying to make is to not allow what may be happening in your mind to compensate for what will happen to your engine, if you then allow the high cost of the oil to come in the way of oil changes at the desired frequency. Which to my mind, for average Indian operating conditions, is governed by time - 6 months max - as opposed to kms run. Btw, I use Magnatec myself for my petrol car! I think it is better than GTX, and yet I can dump it in 6 months just as easily - unlike Mobil 1, which is too expensive for me on that basis. And because I do not think that Mobil 1, will do much more for my engine life over a ten year period, than what Magnatec will, changed every six months. And used in stop start city runs, I am convinced that my engine will actually be better off in ten years, if I was to use fresh Magnatec/equivalent every 6 months, as compared to using Mobil 1 for the extended running that it may very well support, if that running was to mean that oil change would be done only every 18 months. With a significant financial disincentive attached to doing it earlier.

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
I have learned from this thread that it is better to make the switch to semi or full synth oils after 10,000 KM in a new car. What is the sanctity of this number? Why not as soon as the run in period (according to owner's manual) is over? After all, all driving restrictions seem to end at this stage, even though we tend to observe some restraint for another 1000 KM or two.
I disagree with GTO on this one. I do not think that for a modern car, one needs to wait for 10000kms. Indeed, many new cars come with full synth as factory fill - in India, I think Hondas come that way now.
To my mind the only reason to wait is economic. Regardless of what makers say, I would still change the oil after 1000 kms, if nothing, to be on the safe side. The cost of doing this is more with a synth than with a mineral. So, if I was going to go the synth route, I would do it at the 1000kms change. But nothing is wrong in doing this in a brand new car, provided you do it once again at the 1000km mark, before settling down to the regular regime.

Last edited by Jaggu : 10th August 2009 at 15:13. Reason: Back to back posts, use multi quote please.
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Old 7th August 2009, 10:48   #1836
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Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
I disagree with GTO on this one. I do not think that for a modern car, one needs to wait for 10000kms. Indeed, many new cars come with full synth as factory fill - in India, I think Hondas come that way now.
To my mind the only reason to wait is economic. Regardless of what makers say, I would still change the oil after 1000 kms, if nothing, to be on the safe side. The cost of doing this is more with a synth than with a mineral. So, if I was going to go the synth route, I would do it at the 1000kms change. But nothing is wrong in doing this in a brand new car, provided you do it once again at the 1000km mark, before settling down to the regular regime.
Cars that come with Full Synthetic oil from factory have their engine built with good tolerances and can take Synth from day one. typical Indian car engines have wider tolerance limits hence it is recommended to have at least 10000 kms before you go in for Synth. This is especially true for Diesel engines even in case of imported cars.
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Old 7th August 2009, 10:57   #1837
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Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
Cars that come with Full Synthetic oil from factory have their engine built with good tolerances and can take Synth from day one. typical Indian car engines have wider tolerance limits hence it is recommended to have at least 10000 kms before you go in for Synth. This is especially true for Diesel engines even in case of imported cars.
Which auto maker says this? Particularly the myth about the 10000kms?
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Old 7th August 2009, 10:58   #1838
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Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
If I had done that distance in 12 months, I would not risk my engine life by waiting till 15k was done. No matter what Fiat said. All they are worried about is performance in the warranty period, as a car owner, I want my engine to last for ten years without lifting the cylinder head.
And if you read the manual fully, there may well be a rider to the 15k recommendation, under severe operating conditions. I haven't read it, so I can only guess at what it says, but I suggest you look it up, if it exists. It did for the many cars I have owned till now, and it continues even in the one I bought last month.
And if I had done the distance of 7-8k in 6 months, in stop start city driving, I would change the oil at that time.
For reasons stated elsewhere in this thread. Because I look to own my cars for more than the typical 4-5 years that seems to becoming the norm in India.
Does it mean if I change engine oil every 1000 km my engine will last 25 years..

Mobil Delvac MX have been recommended for extended drain intervals and if manufacturer has recommended then it would be for most normal driving conditions in India otherwise they will have huge warranty replacements. I am sure if Fiat recommends a 15K km oil change then oil will last at least for 20k Kms without creating a sludge. Manufacturers' always keep some buffer before they recommend a specific periodic service procedure.

If what you say is true you should also be replacing timing belt every 30K kms instead of 60 k kms (Manufacturer recommended). you should be replacing coolant every year or every 10 k kms instead of 20 k kms. Yes if one has excess cash then he/she can blow it up on the car. it is like polishing the car every month instead of every quarter.
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Old 7th August 2009, 11:04   #1839
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Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
Does it mean if I change engine oil every 1000 km my engine will last 25 years..
If I may, I will bring to your attention a concept known as optimization. And those who have some notion of what happens inside an engine, and what part does what under the hood, will be able to separate out the rest of the grain from the chaff in your post
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Old 7th August 2009, 11:05   #1840
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Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
Which to my mind, for average Indian operating conditions, is governed by time - 6 months max - as opposed to kms run.
Every car manufacturer specifies what constitutes normal and severe service. Generally, severe service consists of operating the vehicle in a very muddy or dusty areas (because dust particles get through the air filter and contaminate the oil more quickly), operating the vehicle in a very hot areas (heat breaks down oil more quickly), using the vehicle only for short trips in cold weather (the moisture in the oil never gets vaporized).

You'll often see claims such as everyone falls into the severe service category, but these claims are untrue (follow the money and see who's making these claims) .

If you mostly do highway driving in moderate weather you will not fall into the severe service category. If you're in doubt, the best way to see if you fall into the severe service category is to have an oil analysis done at the mileage of the severe service interval.

I'm not too sure where you can have an oil analysis done in India.

Many people just like to play it safe and follow the severe service schedule, which is fine, but IMHO there is no benefit in changing the oil sooner than the service schedule states.
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Old 7th August 2009, 11:27   #1841
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Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
Cars that come with Full Synthetic oil from factory have their engine built with good tolerances and can take Synth from day one. typical Indian car engines have wider tolerance limits hence it is recommended to have at least 10000 kms before you go in for Synth. This is especially true for Diesel engines even in case of imported cars.

Where is this recommended and by whom? That is what I want to know. Neither the owner's manual nor the label on the synth oil cans mention anything about this. What is so different between filling a normal oil + additive (many people do this) or just a semi/full synth oil at the 1000 KM mark?

Last edited by Gansan : 7th August 2009 at 11:34.
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Old 7th August 2009, 11:31   #1842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
Which auto maker says this? Particularly the myth about the 10000kms?
Very few Car Manufacturer's in India recommend Synths. So it is only Mineral oil that is recommended by most manufacturers.

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Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
If I may, I will bring to your attention a concept known as optimization. And those who have some notion of what happens inside an engine, and what part does what under the hood, will be able to separate out the rest of the grain from the chaff in your post
I fully know what happens under the hood as a matter of fact I am a qualified Mech engineer. Also I have been using cars for last 15 years and following Manufacturer's recommendations only. My current car has run 42 k kms and had 5 oil changes so far. 1k, 10k, 20k, 30k, 40k. Engine is as good as new and will run for another 1L kms without a overhaul.

I am sure you can find plenty of people on this forum who have stuck to manufacturers' recomendation and have put in enough mileage on their cars without issues. Issues are bound to be there is small percent of people irrespective of people sticking to manufacturer's recommendation or not.
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Old 7th August 2009, 11:39   #1843
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Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
Very few Car Manufacturer's in India recommend Synths. So it is only Mineral oil that is recommended by most manufacturers.
AFAIK they recommend only the grade and the API spec of the oil. The specs are generally so outdated, the oils happen to be mineral by default. I have been using synth oils for my bikes right from the first service with no issues. I just want to know in what way cars are any different.

Last edited by Gansan : 7th August 2009 at 11:42.
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Old 7th August 2009, 11:40   #1844
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Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
My current car has run 42 k kms and had 5 oil changes so far. 1k, 10k, 20k, 30k, 40k. Engine is as good as new and will run for another 1L kms without a overhaul.
If I may ask, in how many months have those 5 changes occurred? Also, was the 1k change as per manufacturer recommendations?

Last edited by Sawyer : 7th August 2009 at 11:41.
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Old 7th August 2009, 11:40   #1845
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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
Where is this recommended and by whom? That is what I want to know. Neither the owner's manual nor the label on the synth oil cans mention anything about this.
Already answered earlier. You would not find this in any car manufacturer;s manual or oil label. This is based on the experience on many folks like you and me on the forums like team-bhp.
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