ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

[Sawyer]

Guys, your faith in what happens inside autocos is touching! Naive, but touching! Service departments that are charged with the making of manuals are on their own trip and cut paste is the usual SOP. And the usual corporate comedies that happen everywhere are rampant inside these workplaces as well. Manuals are not updated accurately, or on time, and released on an unsuspecting public. They are prepared by the so called aam janata, for the benefit of the aam janata. And in their own way, they work well. Question is, as more interested users of automobiles, do we want to use our given faculties to get better than average results from our automobiles? Isn't that one of the reasons for being on the forum? As opposed to following what the car maker says? Car makers that are largely staffed by mediocre, disengaged people?! Isn't that even why this thread exists - else all would be using the Maruti recommended Servo in Maruti cars!
Anyway, there has been enough said here by now for any discerning reader to decide the course of action to be taken on this subject. And choosing to not use ones faculties to rely on the car maker is a valid choice too.

[gpa]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Or are you saying that take the normal change recommendations in the manual at face value, but do not do that for the severe service condition description?

Apologies on the confusion. But what you have mentioned above is exactly what I'm referring to. The changes depend on the usage of the car. If one does fall in the severe service conditions it would be wise to change it as per the schedule.

[sgiitk]

Let us paraphrase on old adage,"Manuals are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools"

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Let us paraphrase on old adage,"Manuals are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools"

Amen to that, brother! And on that wise note, this is a good time to sign off on this thread.

[sandeep108]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Guys, your faith in what happens inside autocos is touching! Naive, but touching! Service departments that are charged with the making of manuals are on their own trip and cut paste is the usual SOP. And the usual corporate comedies that happen everywhere are rampant inside these workplaces as well. Manuals are not updated accurately, or on time, and released on an unsuspecting public. They are prepared by the so called aam janata, for the benefit of the aam janata. And in their own way, they work well. Question is, as more interested users of automobiles, do we want to use our given faculties to get better than average results from our automobiles? Isn't that one of the reasons for being on the forum? As opposed to following what the car maker says? Car makers that are largely staffed by mediocre, disengaged people?! Isn't that even why this thread exists - else all would be using the Maruti recommended Servo in Maruti cars!
Anyway, there has been enough said here by now for any discerning reader to decide the course of action to be taken on this subject. And choosing to not use ones faculties to rely on the car maker is a valid choice too.

I would rather follow the manufacturer's recommendation, to ensure I get my 4-5 years of warranty and laugh the longest.

[greenhorn]

At least during warranty, if the recommended procedures are not followed, if something related breaks, it could prove to be pretty expensive, something which is avoidable.

If the Mfr screws up, at least we can hold them liable for it. I doubt if anybody here would want to be held liable for the advice we give.

[Gansan]

Found these while Googling the subject:

Castrol USA - Can You Handle the Truth about Synthetic Oil?

https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English...ynthetics.aspx

https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English...ics/Myths.aspx

[Eddy]

All the above are from the maunufacturer's websites. They would not list out the negatives, would they ?

[Gansan]

Agreed. But I could not find any contrary views by technical experts/affected users either. I would very much like to view them if they are there.

[saurabhdadhichi]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Super 1000 is API-SM as against API-SC/SD/SF of Servo. However, Super 1000 is essentially an oil for petrol engines. It does conform to API-CF for Diesels also. You may untimately be better off with a Diesel Specific Oil. Essentially, a diesel oil has a higher detergent content as compared to a petrol specific oil.
I am sure you will be able to find superior diesel specific oils at comparable or lower cost (look at the API-C? rating). This should be equal or higher than that specified by the car manufacturer.

Agreed, i had been looking specifically for a diesel specific oil & thus opted for Mobile Super 1000 as it is suitable for use in applications requiring CG-4/CF-4/CF. So i guess i am still using the right oil for my car....

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Mobil Delvac Super i guess, i felt its slightly better when it comes to engine smoothness compared to Servo. But Delvac MX gives the best results, though in recent times its reported that procurement has become difficult.

It doesnt mention anywhere on the container that its Delvac, but just Mobil Super 1000. However, i will try to get hold of Mobil Delvac Super next time i go for oil change after 5000 Kms.

Wrt oil change stick to 5000 kms if you are particular or 7-8 kms at max with mineral oils. Beyond this "chances" of sludge happens esp in diesel engines with Turbo and EGR's. Its always advised that you change the filter along with oil for best results.

Yeps, i also agree moreover, with the change in Oil brand also calls for change of the oil filter, though they are all of the same grade, but mixing can be avoided.

Originally Posted by DieselFan

There is no way Sludge can form in a DDIS/ MJD diesel engines within 7-8 K Kms if you are using Mobil Delvac MX or Super as FIAT has recommended 15K kms as their service interval for the same engine on their G. Punto. If what you say is true then 90% of Punto will come for breakdown maintenance even before they complete the second 15k kms (Assuming there are 3 services in first 15k kms).

True Dieselfan, more over the maintenance hours are suggested by companies, keeping in mind all these factors, so say even if we drive more than 10K a car which was recommended to have oil change at 5k, the engine would be able to survive, provided oil level is properly maintained & filter is checked for clogging ( In simple terms, one has to do these checks more frequently than it is done when we are running the same vehicle under the required oil change kms) - Hope i made sense.

[DieselFan]

Originally Posted by saurabhdadhichi

True Dieselfan, more over the maintenance hours are suggested by companies, keeping in mind all these factors, so say even if we drive more than 10K a car which was recommended to have oil change at 5k, the engine would be able to survive, provided oil level is properly maintained & filter is checked for clogging ( In simple terms, one has to do these checks more frequently than it is done when we are running the same vehicle under the required oil change kms) - Hope i made sense.

Engine oils lose their physical and chemical properties with usage. Hence if a manufacturer recommends 5K oil change I would change the oil after 5k kms. If I use it till 10k kms them oil might lose its properties and may harm the engine (I do not think manufacturers over design their oil requirements so much). If oil loses its lubrication properties then the engine may overheat and seize.Net net if a manufacturer has suggested 5 k km/ 6 months oil change then you may go upto 6k kms and say7-8 months and not beyond it. Again anything beyond what manufacturer suggests is risky.

Some WISE MEN on this forum has suggested you to take Manufacturer's recommendation just as guideline but I would follow it with obedience if I own a lakhs of rupees car and I don't want to screw it up. Following manufacturer's guideline is like insurance for your car against major problems (Again you can't eliminate problems but can definitely minimize them).

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by Gansan

Sir,
The next change is recommended at the third free service (10,000 KM / I year) even for this oil! I have a couple of long drives planned in the next few months,and don't want to take chances.

Gansan, please go right ahead and change the oil to one of your choice whether semi-synth or mineral. As long as you exceed the mfrs recommendation you will not go wrong.

Regards,

[saurabhdadhichi]

Originally Posted by DieselFan

Engine oils lose their physical and chemical properties with usage. Hence if a manufacturer recommends 5K oil change I would change the oil after 5k kms. If I use it till 10k kms them oil might lose its properties and may harm the engine (I do not think manufacturers over design their oil requirements so much). If oil loses its lubrication properties then the engine may overheat and seize.Net net if a manufacturer has suggested 5 k km/ 6 months oil change then you may go upto 6k kms and say7-8 months and not beyond it. Again anything beyond what manufacturer suggests is risky.

Some WISE MEN on this forum has suggested you to take Manufacturer's recommendation just as guideline but I would follow it with obedience if I own a lakhs of rupees car and I don't want to screw it up. Following manufacturer's guideline is like insurance for your car against major problems (Again you can't eliminate problems but can definitely minimize them).

You have a point, that oil might loose up its properties & damage the engine in return, but some of the factors of the oil properties will be affected also by driving conditions, kind of gasolene used & also how old is the vehicle. However, i do see a point that as a thumb rule, one should not extend much (around 1-1.5K) beyond the suggested time of oil change.

Thanks for the help.

[gpa]

Originally Posted by saurabhdadhichi

one should not extend much (around 1-1.5K) beyond the suggested time of oil change.

Just wanted to make a small mention on this. MUL clearly specifies in its warranty claims that if the service/replacement of oil is not done within the 1,000 kms grace period of the actual change mentioned (10,000 kms intervals) then that will lead to the warranty being void.

So its best not to push the change beyond the stpulated mentioned time interval but have it changed earlier.

[saurabhdadhichi]

Originally Posted by gpa

Just wanted to make a small mention on this. MUL clearly specifies in its warranty claims that if the service/replacement of oil is not done within the 1,000 kms grace period of the actual change mentioned (10,000 kms intervals) then that will lead to the warranty being void.

So its best not to push the change beyond the stpulated mentioned time interval but have it changed earlier.

GPA, thanks for the correction, well if we go by books then there is no doubt, we should follow what company recommends. The point i was trying to make was even if you are not able to get the servicing done as per the schedule, then lets not stretch beyond a point where engine might not be able to take the change in the chemical properties of Oil. So, we might be able to stretch the oil change to at the 1.5K. But in order to keep the warranty working for us all the time, it must not be stretch beyond 1K of the recommended oil change interval.