ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

[HIGHNOON]

Originally Posted by Gansan

Today I noticed at the Shell bunk that the price of Shell Helix Ultra has come down. Now the price of 1 litre can is Rs 615.00 and so 3 litre cans should be even cheaper.

They have also coined new terminology claim 'synthetic technology' on other oils as well and pricing is excellent.
Shell is definitely a very good option for us now.

[Raccoon]

Originally Posted by HIGHNOON

I second that . valvoline is indeed very good . So was Chevron so is petronas but unfortunately Mr. Rahul Dravid doesnt endorse it.
Castrol spends a lot on Multimedia advt. and valvoline doesnt seem to have the budget But they pass on the savings to the customer, and mind you internationally too , these companies are as well known as castrol.
BP -vallenus Long life turbo ( API -CF4 ) is surely better than Castrol GTD which tata motors recommends for its diesel passenger cars, so is the All climate diesel form valvoline again with same specs.
There are oils from exxon like Essolube XT API 15W -40 conforming to API- CG4/SG specs which are cheaper than the CRB range from castrol again with similar specs. But nobody ever retails these.
The valvoline Durablend -API - SL /CF SAE -10W -40 is a synthetic blend which is a damn good oil but doesnt sell a micro faction of the castrol magnatec and is it because castrol is better ?
HP Micy Eurol -15w -40 which conforms or exceeds API- CG4 is also much cheaper than the Castrol CRB Turbo which meets API -CH4 which is essentially a very thick oil. Castrol now claims the CRB range is with superior sunthetic technology. Are they using synthetic base stock or blending it with detergents. I mean aint ' superior synthetic technology ' is rather frivolous advt. ?
I wish somebody with the chemical background studies and explains the various oils available so that we dont get fooled by the marketing gimmicks of the oil manufacturing companies.
I mean most of us are spending a bomb on dummies thinking its good for our vehicles and its too much of waste of good money with the high lube rates of today.

Absolutely! Like I have always been saying - Castrol is all about mostly average products priced at premium. Seems to me that due to the fact that it probably is the oldest private lube company, its name has become embossed on Indian lube consumer's subconscious. Add to that its crafty marketing. The term "Synthetic Technology" means nothing! As of now, even the term "fully synthetic" means nothing, unless the base stock is clearly mentioned. "Synthetic Technology" is one of the best examples of Castrol's crafty marketing. Technically and legally you cannot challenge it, as all additives are synthetic. Simple fact is that all lubes are synthetic technolgy... not just Castrol. Difference is others aren't making this misleading claim, only Castrol is. It is only the uninformed customers, who are unfortunately in the majority by far, who are fooled by these crafty words with zero substance and expensive marketing. If anybody has any doubts about this, ask Castrol to explain what exactly they mean by "Synthetic Technology". You will not get a valid answer. C'mon, thats asking too much from a company that does not even provide the technical specifications of its products!!!

And this marketing gimmick is just one example. Look at another example - Power 1, their bike oil does not even mention the viscosity rating on the pack! Why? Simple, this small crafty step ensures that they can sell the same below average oil (with a premium price tag and "premium-looking" packing) in all the segments... ie. whether the bike requires 10W30 or 20W40 or 20W50, etc., the customer will unknowingly buy the same oil. Castrol also shamelessly mentions something like it is recommended for all Hero Hondas, TVSs, Suzukis, etc., etc. There are other MUCH better bike oils like Gulf, Elf, Veedol, etc.; which are cheaper, but they only sell a small fraction compared to Castrol's overpriced crap.

Castrol Magnatec's claims are also said to be dubious. Any semi-synth oil, esp. with some ester content will give the same performance.

There are more examples and issues which I won't get into here, else I'll have to keep typing for a long time... Anyway, it dosen't matter what i say - Castrol's dubious tactics work, and it sells very well, thanks to the vast gullible customer base who are neither familiar with marketing tactics nor lube tech.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by HIGHNOON

They have also coined new terminology claim 'synthetic technology' on other oils as well and pricing is excellent.
Shell is definitely a very good option for us now.

Synthetic is nothing more than Synthetic Blend, i.e. a semi-synth. I have nothing against blending in some constituents to bring teh composition up to spec. Much better than overprices s\full synthetics any day. Today you can even get full mineral meeting API-SM.

[d_himan]

Filled up Magnatec 4 litres - Rs.1100/- June 2009 stock. I tried searching for Shell Helix Ultra/Petronas Syn but gave up after trying at 4 outlets. Castrol's sheer distribtion muscle wins!

Surprising thing, is that my Swift P gulped down the entire 4 litres (Oil change interval 10 K - prev oil used Magnatec) No idea if anything's wrong - the engine is super smooth as usual...

[sharanramesh]

i am planning on buying the Fiat Grande Punto 1.4; i have been told by the service personnel that the car uses synthetic oil.

This brings me to the point that has been discussed a lot in this forum. Most of us agree that synthetic oil is best used in a car after a good 10K kms of running, as we believe that mineral oil is better for the new engine as it does not over lubricate like synthetic.

Punto now comes only with synthetic, and this is recommended by FIAT. is there any cause for concern here?

[Raccoon]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Synthetic is nothing more than Synthetic Blend, i.e. a semi-synth. I have nothing against blending in some constituents to bring teh composition up to spec. Much better than overprices s\full synthetics any day. Today you can even get full mineral meeting API-SM.

Didn't exactly get that?! Are you saying Castrol's term "Synthetic Technology" means that it is semi-synthetic? If yes, then I would not agree at all. The word has no real meaning. It is just a clever word to fool uninformed people into thinking that it is synthetic oil. And what are other motor oils made of? "Natural technology"? Organic technology? Bio technology? Herbal technology?

Originally Posted by d_himan

Filled up Magnatec 4 litres - Rs.1100/- June 2009 stock. I tried searching for Shell Helix Ultra/Petronas Syn but gave up after trying at 4 outlets. Castrol's sheer distribtion muscle wins!

Dude, you cannot not get any brand of oil in Bombay! If you would have called/mailed the company/regional office/sales guy/etc., they may even have delivered a can to your doorstep!! Don't know about Shell, but I'd expect Petronas to have done that (personal experience).

Originally Posted by sharanramesh

Punto now comes only with synthetic, and this is recommended by FIAT. is there any cause for concern here?

Not a cause for concern as the company is itself doing it. You can count on the fact that their processes have taken this into consideration.

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by sharanramesh

Punto now comes only with synthetic, and this is recommended by FIAT. is there any cause for concern here?

As a convert back to good quality minerals, this is not good news to my ears, if true. I am not sure it is though. Are you very sure about this?
Also, I appreciate the anti Castrol rant, but one has to concede to their good marketing, which includes making the oils widely available at a competitive price. It takes management effort to do that on a nationwide basis, consistently, and is also part of marketing.
And I am not sure that there is another oil as good as the Magnatec spec of 10w40, API SM, widely available at the price point of Rs 275ish a litre that it retails at. If there is, I will be glad to have a good alternative to Magnatec. I know of course that it is a mineral oil - I too believe that all this semi synth, or made with synthetic tech stuff is nonsense. In my book there are only mineral oils and synthetic oils as of now, and the rest of the stuff, including magnetic and intelligent molecules is all cooked up stuff to sell the oil.
PS: I continue to believe that putting in a non spurious multigrade mineral of SL/SM spec of the right viscosity in the car every 6 months, with a new filter, is much better for engine performance and long life, than sticking in the latest and greatest synth, and leaving it there for a year or more. And given the price differences, it is still cheaper to do this 6 monthly change than an annual change of synthetic, to make this approach a no brainer. Indian city driving conditions make this change frequency very necessary. And this is even more applicable for turbo diesel engines. Of course, if one has cash to burn, one can use a synthetic and change out every 6 months too! Will the extra spend deliver anything more than a psychological return is the question. I do not believe it will, in normal Indian driving conditions.

[sabsubs]

Hi All,

I have an i10 Kappa Magna. My car is just 500 Kms short of 10k mark and my 2nd service is around the corner. I want to switch over to synthetic oil. Would you guys suggest me to switch to synthetic or shall I wait for next service cycle. Has any i10 kappa owners already switched to synthetic? Any difference found in terms of performance and mileage?

[Raccoon]

If you have decided to go in for fully synth, there should be no issue about doing it now. 10 k km is quite good enough.

[black12rr]

1.Is ABRO engine flush recommended for 44 K run MPFI zen even for a mineral oil change ? .

2.The ABRO comes in 443 and 887 ML packs , what quantity to use ?

3.Any good mineral oil for MPFI zen ?

4.Does MASS es allow to use external bought oil ?

[Raccoon]

1 & 2 - Don't use flushes

3 - been discussed before. Good ones would include Total, Valvoline, Gulf, Petronas, etc.

4 - Mine allows. Yours may or may not. If they don't you could "insist". Or go elsewhere
and get it done in front of you.

[HIGHNOON]

PS: I continue to believe that putting in a non spurious multigrade mineral of SL/SM spec of the right viscosity in the car every 6 months, with a new filter, is much better for engine performance and long life, than sticking in the latest and greatest synth, and leaving it there for a year or more. And given the price differences, it is still cheaper to do this 6 monthly change than an annual change of synthetic, to make this approach a no brainer. Indian city driving conditions make this change frequency very necessary. And this is even more applicable for turbo diesel engines. Of course, if one has cash to burn, one can use a synthetic and change out every 6 months too! Will the extra spend deliver anything more than a psychological return is the question. I do not believe it will, in normal Indian driving conditions.[/quote]
This part is so correct. And if followed , one need not waste money on synthetic oil to have a very long and troublefree engine performance .

Having said that castrol is way too expensive and some of the castrol oils are not good at all and most are overpriced.
The beauty of this forum is that it gives better and sometimes less exensive alternatives to the followers for maintenance of their vehicles rather than going with the herd and losing out on better ways to travel their journey.

[HIGHNOON]

Dude, you cannot not get any brand of oil in Bombay! If you would have called/mailed the company/regional office/sales guy/etc., they may even have delivered a can to your doorstep!! Don't know about Shell, but I'd expect Petronas to have done that (personal experience).
Thats quite true ! Mumbai sourcing oil of ur preference is not an issue.If u just call justdial or post an enquiry for oil retailers online , withn 5 min. u 'll get calls with quotes from distributors / retailers.
One need not go to the nearest spare parts shop for oil because he may keep stuff which fetches him better margins / better credits or simply because it moves better

[R2D2]

Guys,

Took my car to the service station yesterday for its 2nd free service. Found out that Toyota now offers a GMO synthetic oil. The specs are 5W-40 API SM/CF. Costs Rs 3200 for 4 litres. The brew is mfred by Savita Chemicals (Idemitsu) Most importantly there is NO minimum mileage to be complete before you shift to synth. So that mileage myth goes outside the window. My car has done only 5K kms.

The service advisor agreed to fill my car with any aftermarket oil of my choice as long as it met the grade and API specs. This is a welcome change.

As 5w-40 is now an approved grade went with a friend and bought a 4 litre can of Shell Helix Ultra 5w-40 from Shell distributor in Pune. Will try the Toyota OEM synth during the next oil change.

Toyota also offers Denso Iridium long life plugs @ 850 a pop. The factory fitted ones are the U groove standard plugs that come for Rs 250 at the dealership.

Have now shifted over to Iridium. The combination of synthetic oil + iridium plugs has made a noticeable difference to the engine. The 1ZZ is less 'buzzy', seems smoother at idle and revs easier.
Total cost of synth oil + plugs = Rs 6000, add another Rs 500 for the oil filter and misc paraphernalia the damage was Rs 6500. Is it worth it? Well, depends on person to person. But I am happy with the noticeable change in the engine including smoothness. Thought I'd share my experience with you. Further updates to follow.

Cheers!

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by R2D2

As 5w-40 is now an approved grade went with a friend and bought a 4 litre can of Shell Helix Ultra 5w-40 from Shell distributor in Pune. Will try the Toyota OEM synth during the next oil change.

Are you sure? To my knowledge it comes in 1 Ltr and 3 Ltr cans only.