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Old 14th December 2010, 21:25   #2761
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by maximus. View Post
Thank you very much for explaining the difference.I agree on the cost difference,Mobil 1 will cost about 4.6k for 4L.I would have to reconsider,as my usage does not justify the expense.
You're welcome.

Honestly I am one of those people who use synthetics because of the comfort that it provides to the owner that his/her engine is getting the best lubrication and protection available...cost is secondary. That love of cars is probably what makes me a member of TBHP!

And no, I do not drive like a rally driver nor do I stress my engine too much. I like to rev it hard (as much as a Corolla engine can without making me deaf) and grin when she responds better and runs smoother. I did find only a marginal difference once I switched to Shell Helix Ultra 5w-40. But I simply love the difference! Any difference in mileage? Very marginal, about 0.3-0.5 kmpl. And that too it may be unsubstantiable. Therefore is it value for money? The answer is an unequivocal 'NO!'.

I have always been an advocate of good quality mineral or semi synthetic oils for normal driving. Just make sure you change it at mfr recommended intervals and your engine will be happy.
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Old 18th December 2010, 18:12   #2762
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Default 5w30 in my Octavia 1.9 TDi

Hi mates,
Wanted your opinion on the use of this particular engine oil for my car:
Shell Helix Ultra 5w30.
The container said: packed in the EU. Suitable for all VW, SKODA, AUDI vehicles.
Have done about 1000ks so far after the oil fill.

until now issues observed, the engine has become rather more silent on highway runs.

Thanks in advance.
Cheers
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Old 18th December 2010, 20:34   #2763
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Default Re: 5w30 in my Octavia 1.9 TDi

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Originally Posted by Monaro CV8 View Post
Hi mates,
Wanted your opinion on the use of this particular engine oil for my car:
Shell Helix Ultra 5w30.
The container said: packed in the EU. Suitable for all VW, SKODA, AUDI vehicles.
Have done about 1000ks so far after the oil fill.

until now issues observed, the engine has become rather more silent on highway runs.

Thanks in advance.
Cheers
Assuming you purchased a legally imported can of oil and not a gray market item, it should be 5w-40, not 5w-30. If it is 5w-40, not to worry because Skoda India uses it as OEM oil in all its petrol and diesel engines including the Octy's.

Rgds,
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Old 19th December 2010, 01:12   #2764
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Default Re: 5w30 in my Octavia 1.9 TDi

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Assuming you purchased a legally imported can of oil and not a gray market item, it should be 5w-40, not 5w-30. If it is 5w-40, not to worry because Skoda India uses it as OEM oil in all its petrol and diesel engines including the Octy's.

Rgds,
My main reason for writing in was the 30.
How would it affect the engine operation?
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Old 19th December 2010, 02:01   #2765
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

5W30 is a tad too light for a diesel.
Would have been ok for the petrol VW engines though.
Can we have the picture of the can?
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Old 19th December 2010, 19:16   #2766
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Default Re: 5w30 in my Octavia 1.9 TDi

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Originally Posted by Monaro CV8 View Post
My main reason for writing in was the 30.
How would it affect the engine operation?
Check your owners manual for the viscosity grade for use in a particular ambient temperature range. You'll find the correct answer there.

As Nitrous says, 5w-30 is light for a diesel. Can you post a pic of this can? Is it the "Shell Helix Ultra Extra"

5w-30 AFAIK is used in very few cars in India and nearly all mfrs specify 10w-30 and higher, primarily due to the high ambient temperatures in summer.

Rgds,
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Old 19th December 2010, 23:02   #2767
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I have completed around 500 kms after filling 5W30 Magnatec.

The engine is revving noticeably free but I feel that the engine is coarse at higher speeds.

Nitrous please advise if i should switch back to 10W40.

My friend has a unused 5L can of Shell 15W40 which he is ready to gift me. But i believe it is specified for Diesel engines only (He had bought it for his Innova now sold). Is it sensible to use it?
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Old 20th December 2010, 09:16   #2768
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by Skyline GT-R View Post
I have completed around 500 kms after filling 5W30 Magnatec.

The engine is revving noticeably free but I feel that the engine is coarse at higher speeds.

Nitrous please advise if i should switch back to 10W40.

My friend has a unused 5L can of Shell 15W40 which he is ready to gift me. But i believe it is specified for Diesel engines only (He had bought it for his Innova now sold). Is it sensible to use it?
The M800 generally uses thicker oil of 15W-40 and 20W-50 grades. This is what I know from my friend's M800 owners manual when he had a similar question on the type of oil.

Changing to a thinner oil, especially with an engine that has clocked >60K kms, will make your engine run rough at high speeds but rev easier and idle better due to less drag caused by the thinner oil. You are compromising on lubrication at high engine speeds.

I honestly believe you need to stick with Maruti's recommended grades. The 5w-30 may be ok for their new generation engines ( new SX4 engine, Ritz et al) but not for the M800 engine which has changed little since the last major upgrade 10 years ago i.e. fuel injection back in 2000.

Also, do not use diesel oils in petrol engines. If you find the engine acting unsatisfactorily go in for Shell Helix HX5 15w-40 which is reasonably priced and good oil OR Castrol Magnatec 10w-40 which is more expensive but a semi synth (just make sure you buy Castrol oils from a reputed dealer). You cant go wrong with either one.

Don't experiment with engine oils..unless you know for sure what you're doing.

Rgds,

Last edited by R2D2 : 20th December 2010 at 09:17.
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Old 20th December 2010, 13:25   #2769
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Post Re: 5w30 in my Octavia 1.9 TDi

@R2
@Nitrous

Unfortunately I did not think of taking a picture of the Engine Oil can during the oil change 1.5 weeks ago. So I guess I'm relying on my memory about the details mentioned on the container.

Nonetheless, I checked up with the Owners Manual, and it mentions VW 505 01 Engine oil for specific QG2 serviced engines.

Now my quest was to see if Shell Helix 5w30 fits as an equivalent to VW 505 01 spec engine oil.

In the process, stumbled upon a Skoda dealer's (Chennai based) website -
Service FAQ , wherein the mention of 5w30 is made.

Wanted your expert opinion - should I worry about the 30?

Thanks,
Cheers.

Last edited by Monaro CV8 : 20th December 2010 at 13:27.
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Old 20th December 2010, 13:41   #2770
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Changing to a thinner oil, especially with an engine that has clocked >60K kms, will make your engine run rough at high speeds but rev easier and idle better due to less drag caused by the thinner oil. You are compromising on lubrication at high engine speeds.
The wear parts have clearances in thou(s) i.e. one thousandth of an inch and the lubricating film too has a microscopic thickness, it really does not matter what grade oil you are using the lubrication will be there what ever speed the engine is at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Also, do not use diesel oils in petrol engines. If you find the engine acting unsatisfactorily go in for Shell Helix HX5 15w-40 which is reasonably priced and good oil OR Castrol Magnatec 10w-40 which is more expensive but a semi synth (just make sure you buy Castrol oils from a reputed dealer). You cant go wrong with either one.
Oil is oil. An oil specifically formulated for a diesel engine will have a base and additives which can sustain the higher temperature and pressures of a diesel engine and remain stable longer than an oil formulated only for petrol engines. If need be such as in an emergency one can use an oil meant for petrol engines in diesels too. The other way round being more acceptable. Many current generation oils such as the Motul 8100 X -cess have done away with this differentiation completely.
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Old 20th December 2010, 15:56   #2771
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by khoj View Post
The wear parts have clearances in thou(s) i.e. one thousandth of an inch and the lubricating film too has a microscopic thickness, it really does not matter what grade oil you are using the lubrication will be there what ever speed the engine is at.

Oil is oil. An oil specifically formulated for a diesel engine will have a base and additives which can sustain the higher temperature and pressures of a diesel engine and remain stable longer than an oil formulated only for petrol engines. If need be such as in an emergency one can use an oil meant for petrol engines in diesels too. The other way round being more acceptable. Many current generation oils such as the Motul 8100 X -cess have done away with this differentiation completely.
I am afraid not. Thinner oil shears under higher temperatures and pressures that occur at higher engine speeds and/or high load situations. If your statement was correct every single engine on the planet would be using the same viscosity and category of engine oil. Grades are defined by ambient temperatures while service categories by the work loads and operating conditions that the engine is expected to experience in its service life.

"In an emergency" is the key set of words here. It is similar to using plain water instead of a coolant/water mixture in your radiator if coolant levels run low in your cooling system. Not recommended but it will get you by in an emergency. All oils have a service category specified by the API - Sx or Cy one for spark/petrol engines and the other for compression/diesel engines. Read about them at the API site.

IF an oil has classifications for both service categories, (many do) for e.g. Shell Helix Ultra is classified as API SM/CF then you can use this oil in petrol and diesel engines provided it meets the minimum required API service category specified by the car or engine mfr.

Please don't treat engine oils grades and categories with nonchalance. They are there for a reason.

Rgds,

Last edited by R2D2 : 20th December 2010 at 16:00. Reason: Typo
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Old 20th December 2010, 16:21   #2772
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Default Re: 5w30 in my Octavia 1.9 TDi

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Originally Posted by Monaro CV8 View Post
Wanted your expert opinion - should I worry about the 30?
I am no expert in engine oils. But let me tell you that IF the oil you purchased and are now using in your engine is Shell Helix Ultra 5w-30 then at least the grade conforms to the info on that site & you should be ok.

Strangely the site calls the recommended oil Shell Helix Diesel Plus VA (5W30). The "VA" probably stands for Volkswagen AG specs (a guess) making it an OEM specified oil. Such OEM oils are generally not available in the open market and only with VAG/Audi/Skoda dealers.
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Old 20th December 2010, 19:03   #2773
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
I am afraid not. Thinner oil shears under higher temperatures and pressures that occur at higher engine speeds and/or high load situations. If your statement was correct every single engine on the planet would be using the same viscosity and category of engine oil. Grades are defined by ambient temperatures while service categories by the work loads and operating conditions that the engine is expected to experience in its service life.
The statement above is correct but partially. All oils thin or thick will shear under temperature and pressure. The shear rate will vary more from one type of oil to another compared from grade to grade for a given type. Under a given set parameter of pressure and temperature a lower grade oil will loose its stability at a lower coordinate compared to a higher grade oil, however for day to day running of our vehicles using the same for 5K or 10K kilometers for that matter will not sound death knell for the engine or damage for that matter, unless we are looking at a very high revving application such as in a race or something like an engine generating very high torque like a bulldozer, a dumper or a bucket wheel in the mining sector and other similar high demand applications where you could have the engine seize in a matter of minutes.

There was indeed a time when all engines ran simply on 'Castor' oil (literally) and then came Mobile Oil followed by others, today we are familiar with them by their well advertised brands and company names. Of course with the advancement of technology and increased range of applications sprinkled with a bit of marketing spiel came the variations to satisfy the same. The results have resulted in threads like this and what not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Please don't treat engine oils grades and categories with nonchalance. They are there for a reason. Rgds,
The grades are determined not by ambient temperatures but by the Pour point temperature designated by the lower number and Flash point temperature designated per the higher number. Get your basics right before putting your foot in your mouth else one will be glad to direct their foot to another place which will hasten the learning process Regards.
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Old 20th December 2010, 20:12   #2774
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by khoj View Post
The grades are determined not by ambient temperatures but by the Pour point temperature designated by the lower number and Flash point temperature designated per the higher number. Get your basics right before putting your foot in your mouth else one will be glad to direct their foot to another place which will hasten the learning process Regards.
Hey guess what? That principle of learning applies to you too! Not that I want to get into a slanging match here.

If you really believe that any oil can be used in any engine...well, please go ahead and follow your own theory! The rest of us will be content to follow sane advice i.e. what a car owners manual recommends.

Regards,
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Old 20th December 2010, 20:16   #2775
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Thank you for your views.

I have decided to stick to 5W30 till next oil change.....& drive at lower RPMs. What is the opinion about adding some additive? Is it going to help?
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