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Old 1st April 2011, 21:53   #2926
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
This came out last year. Hope this helps Attachment 526059 (261kb)
I had got this from the links you posted. I am specifically looking for something like the old card.

Also, how does is Hydro cracked (Shell Ultra) compare technically with a true full synth (Mobil1)? I am not worried as to how they get there, but the differences to the user.

Also, if we cut out the gibberish how does API-SN compare with the SM?
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Old 2nd April 2011, 02:32   #2927
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Default Re: 10W-40 not good ?

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Saw this note about GM not recommending 10W-40. What do you guy say ?
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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
I would say i'd go with the recommendation of German car makers like BMW or Porsche in using an even wider range oil like Mobil1 0W40 rather than GM. But wrt mineral oil grade like 20W50 or 20W40 i guess GM finding doesnt apply. Not sure about wide range semi-syn and goup 3 (which can be sold as syn in USA).
GM's recommendations would apply to engines manufactured by GM.
How do recommendations by German car manufacturers apply to GM's vehicles? Their recommendations would apply to their own range of engines.
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Old 2nd April 2011, 08:39   #2928
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Thanks for the response Amit1234singla.
Please see the attachments. MRP of Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 fully synthetic engine oil in chennai on the 4L can label is Rs.4060 which was the same price offered to me in a shell petrol station. But I got it for Rs.3400 from a motor shop (Patel motors,Tambaram,chennai).

Please read the Specification & approval in the can label that I have attached. It has a whole list. Does that mean that this oil meets all those specifications?

Also read the text on the can label that tells what engine can use this..

After changing to Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 fully synthetic engine oil in my swift vdi abs, the first day i was able to feel only a little bit of change but after driving for 3 days now, I fell the smoothnes significantly and the entire NHV has gone down a lot. Idle noise is much low and the engine revs like anything in all gears. Gear shift has also become much smoother than earlier and also what I was able to notice significantly was that the low end torque, that is, leass than 2k rpm is extremely great in all gears now.. I guess I can stick on to this oil as of now..

Planning to do 10K in this oil. Will see how long it lasts..
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ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil-02042011663.jpg  

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Old 2nd April 2011, 14:41   #2929
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by satish_tns View Post
Please read the Specification & approval in the can label that I have attached. It has a whole list. Does that mean that this oil meets all those specifications?

Also read the text on the can label that tells what engine can use this..

Gear shift has also become much smoother than earlier

Planning to do 10K in this oil. Will see how long it lasts..
Hi Satish,

Good to hear you're enjoying your experience with synthetic.

I think you should be getting your doubts clarified BEFORE filling the oil..not after. Just in case the oil is not suitable you can always return an unopened can back to your dealer for an exchange. Once in the engine it is too late. Also, changing engine oil doesn't affect the gearbox or the quality of gear shifts in the least.

The label says that oil conforms certain specifications laid down by engine or car mfrs or API, ILSAC, ACEA.

While SHU is a very good oil (I use it because I don't get Mobil1 5w-40 or 10w-30 in India), I think you could have done better by getting a diesel specific oil for your car. There is a diesel engine oil thread on TBHP and you will get a lot of information that will come useful when you go in for your next oil change. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...gine-oils.html (All about Diesel engine oils)


The best place to check what oil you need to use and drain interval is your car's owners manual.

Cheers!
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Old 2nd April 2011, 15:47   #2930
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by satish_tns View Post
Please read the Specification & approval in the can label that I have attached. It has a whole list. Does that mean that this oil meets all those specifications?

Also read the text on the can label that tells what engine can use this..

After changing to Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 fully synthetic engine oil in my swift vdi abs, the first day i was able to feel only a little bit of change but after driving for 3 days now, I fell the smoothnes significantly and the entire NHV has gone down a lot. Idle noise is much low and the engine revs like anything in all gears. Gear shift has also become much smoother than earlier and also what I was able to notice significantly was that the low end torque, that is, leass than 2k rpm is extremely great in all gears now.. I guess I can stick on to this oil as of now..

Planning to do 10K in this oil. Will see how long it lasts..
I am glad you are happy with the oil. I don't have enough knowledge to say if this specific oil is good or bad for a diesel engine so I usually take an objective approach towards these (petrol specific) synthetics with are rated CF for diesel (Mobil1, Shell, Castrol etc). Please see my points below:

1. What does your manual recommend? If that's CF or higher, you are okay. I think it will be a minimum of CH4.
2. If this oil is so good for a diesel engine (as stated on the can), why does it have CF rating, why not CJ4 or CI4 or CH4 or even CG4, CF4. As per the link below CF rated oils were introduced in 1994 for off-road, indirect-injected and other diesel engines including those using fuel over0.5% weight sulphur. This does not sound like current modren CRDI diesel engine's description. Car Bibles : The Engine Oil Bible
3. If I did want to spend 800/L on engine oil for a diesel car, I would do it on Mobil Delvac 1 5W40. That's synthetic and diesel specific at the same price. Now availavle in India in 5L cans.

Finally to answer your Q, the approvals on the can are indeed approvals from those OEM's. We need to understand exactly what does a particular approval mean. It can be for a petrol or a diesel car(s), a specific model or a time period etc. In other words a VW approval does mot mean that the oil is good for all VW cars anywhere in the world irrespective of any engine, year etc.

These are just my views, I can be wrong. As R2D2 suggested, please read through the diesel specific oil thread. A lot of good info in there on diesel oils.
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Old 2nd April 2011, 16:37   #2931
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Got an oil change done on my car today. Total intake 2.9liters, got 500ml in a can for topping up. Car feels smoother and better. Liquid gold, smells nice too lol

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Old 2nd April 2011, 17:55   #2932
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Got an oil change done on my car today. Total intake 2.9liters, got 500ml in a can for topping up. Car feels smoother and better. Liquid gold, smells nice too lol
Hi Sankar,

Great oil. I used to fill M1 5w-50 in my OHC...and the difference with a synthetic is noticeable.

M1 is my first choice too. But it is really unfortunate that they have not introduced 5w-40 in India which is the preferred viscosity grade for my car's engine. Sigh..but if SHU is good enough for Ferrari, then it is good enough for my humble Toyota.

BTW what did M1 0w-40 cost you per litre?

Regards,
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Old 3rd April 2011, 20:33   #2933
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
BTW what did M1 0w-40 cost you per litre?
Regards,
Cost me Rs1000/liter. The new batch MRP is 1150. The old stock got sold for Rs950/liter but that got over at the place i went.

Maruti ASTar manual recommends using 10W30 or 10W40, maybe for the next change i might experiment with the former grade if i could find a synthetic version of the same here.
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Old 3rd April 2011, 21:56   #2934
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Everyone seems to use sythetics and found engines to be smooth. But why are the companies not providing cars with synthetic oil and recommending the same during servicing. I see the same age old mineral oils in the hitech workshops and they say there is no difference between the two.
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Old 4th April 2011, 09:44   #2935
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

@knob; Synthetic costs more than twice the price of the semi, and possibly over three times that of a mineral.
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Old 4th April 2011, 10:51   #2936
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by knob View Post
1) Everyone seems to use sythetics and found engines to be smooth. But why are the companies not providing cars with synthetic oil and recommending the same during servicing.
2)I see the same age old mineral oils in the hitech workshops and they say there is no difference between the two.
1) Cost. Cost involved in oil-change servicing of vehicles would easily increase by atleast 2.5 times. But Maruti Service center does give the owner an option to use Shell Helix Ultra or regular mineral oil during service.

2) There is a very noticeable difference in engine smoothness and performance. The garages which say that there is no difference probably doesn't know or may not have driven a vehicle enough on synthetic to notice it.
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Old 4th April 2011, 11:21   #2937
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
1)garages which say that there is no difference probably doesn't know or may not have driven a vehicle enough on synthetic to notice it.
I went to the Hercules for my alto service and asked them not to change oil and I'll get synthetic. They said there is no difference in the performance and if engine is damaged due to this the car will be out of warranty.
How I like tothem!!

Shall I go for mobil1 oil you got? Alto has much vibration compared to zen, so will this oil smoothen it down? Also is it good for 2000 model zen?
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Old 4th April 2011, 11:25   #2938
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

@knob
The main reason is cost. Consider Shell Helix Ultra @ Rs 3000.00 and Shell Helix HX5 @ Rs 715.00 per oil change for my Alto. Whether synth or mineral, the oil has to be changed at 10k KM / 12 months,whichever is earlier.

So I have decided that for my sedate driving and sparing usage (~5k KM/year), I would be better off with two oil changes a year with the HX5 rather than one with the Ultra.

MASS offer a choice of full synth MGO as well as Mobil 0W40 for their cars with the K-series engines, which come filled with synth from the factory. The synth MGO is from IOC and costs about half the price of Mobil. If yours is an earlier generation engine, they will still fill synth if you opt for it. Just ensure they fill 0w40 or 5W40, and not the 10W30 which is filled for some cars (A-Star IIRC).
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Old 4th April 2011, 12:03   #2939
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Let me put it this way. I drive about 800km per annum on each of my cars. I stuck with Semi-synth (SM) all these years. I went fully synth on the Civic since the original fill was also synth. Never had any issues. A lot of improvement you see on an oil change is probably the general sprucing up at service, and not necessarily the change.

@knob: You provide the oil, and state that this is the oil with grade and API specs. Write this on the service sheet. They will try and scare you, since they are loosing moolah if you get your own oil. MS and the rest who are using PSU oil will give with API-SG or at most SJ.
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Old 5th April 2011, 08:20   #2940
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
@knob: You provide the oil, and state that this is the oil with grade and API specs. Write this on the service sheet. They will try and scare you, since they are loosing moolah if you get your own oil. MS and the rest who are using PSU oil will give with API-SG or at most SJ.
knob, They make quite a margin for every liter of synth oil sold by them, they charge around 1100 for Shell Helix Ultra per liter, compare per liter price of the same oil if you buy it elsewhere!

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Originally Posted by knob View Post
I went to the Hercules for my alto service and asked them not to change oil and I'll get synthetic. They said there is no difference in the performance and if engine is damaged due to this the car will be out of warranty.

Shall I go for mobil1 oil you got? Alto has much vibration compared to zen, so will this oil smoothen it down? Also is it good for 2000 model zen?
As long as the oil meets the specs it will not void the warranty. Engine will not get damaged if you use oil (any) of the right spec. You may go for the M1 0W40.

If they give cock and bull story about using different brand oil of the same specs, ask them if Maruti recommends that we use a particular brand of fuel for their cars, like for say only IOC or only BP or only HP.


Couple of interesting links:
M1 0W40 makes the most power, compared to other oils in this test.
Oils Against Oils - Major Oil Brands go head-to-head on the dyno.

A different view in selecting oils.
FerrariChat.com - FAQ: Motor Oil Articles by Dr. Ali E. Haas (AEHaas)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
Just ensure they fill 0w40 or 5W40, and not the 10W30 which is filled for some cars (A-Star IIRC).
AStar can take 10W40 and 10W30, both are recommended in the manual to be used in the same temperature range.

Last edited by Sankar : 5th April 2011 at 08:25.
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