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Old 26th July 2011, 14:03   #3076
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
Whats OE?
The dealer said it's 15-40.

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Old 26th July 2011, 14:55   #3077
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I have a feeling that we have been sometimes going over the top. I do not think any car in India goes much over 7000rpm, so most of this discussion is more emotional than real.

Also, how many of us have had engine failures before say 160,000-200,000km, and also intend to keep our cars that long?
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Old 26th July 2011, 15:12   #3078
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by sgiitk
I have a feeling that we have been sometimes going over the top. I do not think any car in India goes much over 7000rpm, so most of this discussion is more emotional than real.

Also, how many of us have had engine failures before say 160,000-200,000km, and also intend to keep our cars that long?
Well said, Sir.

My strong recommendations:

1) Use the oil as suggested in the owner's manual, all this while we have been using mineral oils in our cars without any issues, now that oil companies have come up with these SO's and we here at TBHP are having endless discussions.

2) Change the Oil regularly after every 5K kms.

Last edited by Torquedo : 26th July 2011 at 15:13.
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Old 26th July 2011, 16:22   #3079
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by Torquedo View Post

2) Change the Oil regularly after every 5K kms.
I think once a year / 10,000km is fine. All oils API-SF onwards (now a pre-historic grade) can take 10,000km/miles or 12 months. So 5,000 id sn overkill, and may not be that good for the environment either.
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Old 29th July 2011, 11:16   #3080
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Thumbs up Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
I think once a year / 10,000km is fine. All oils API-SF onwards (now a pre-historic grade) can take 10,000km/miles or 12 months. So 5,000 id sn overkill, and may not be that good for the environment either.
I sort of agree with you sir.

My car usage is on the lower side and i typically run 6-7K per year. As per the service manual, Maruti recommends oil change every 10K kms or 12 months, and since my usage was less than 10K per month, i have been following the same and changing the oil and oil filter once in a year

From past year or so, i have been hearing too much about this 5K km oil change and not sure if i am doing something wrong. I have absolutely no problems with my cars performance or the FE.

I do get the oil checked twice a year and even the service adviser feels its ok and i do not require oil change.
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Old 8th August 2011, 19:17   #3081
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Here is the Team-BHP guide to using synthetic engine oil:

No synthetics during the running-in period: Wear and tear is actually good for a new engine. Synthetic oil, with its superior lubricating properties, hinders the running-in process and is best used only after 10,000 – 15,000 km.
Hi GTO, I ride a 123 cc single cylinder four stroke yamaha motorcycle that is prescribed to use a 20W40 mineral oil (Yamalube of course). Is it OK, if i plan to use a 10W40 full synth oil such as a "Mobil 1 10W40" in place of the mineral and still ride without worrying about issues. The Service Center manager with whom i discussed in length has Zero experience in using Full synth oils on small motorcycles and esp Mobil 1 and does not budge to even
accept if he can go ahead and try it once for me. He tells he does not have the fat to experiment it and it's beyond his capability. What do i do here. I have a 1L Mobil 1 with me already. My ride has clocked 7,300 odd kms and is 1.5 years old.

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
The right grade: It is vital that you choose your engine oil based on the grade your manufacturer recommends. If your owner’s manual suggests a 10W–40 grade oil, make certain that you use that only.
Workshop Manual says 20W40 grade oil. But here we are talking about 10W40, I was told in the xxWyy factor for lower capacity motorcycles, the xx should be as low as possible and yy should be max of 40. Is it correct ?

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Engine flush before change: We suggest using an engine flush before switching from conventional to synthetic oil. Please be advised that some older / high-mileage engines do not take well to engine flushing, so it is best to check with a competent mechanic before proceeding.
Manual says during first time filling 1.2L and subsequent re-fills 1L, does it mean if i switch from mineral to full synth should i drain all oil and refill 1.2L?

Thanks a lot for your efforts and time spent on my thread.
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Old 8th August 2011, 21:55   #3082
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by sriramr9 View Post
Hi GTO, I ride a 123 cc single cylinder four stroke yamaha motorcycle that is prescribed to use a 20W40 mineral oil (Yamalube of course). Is it OK, if i plan to use a 10W40 full synth oil such as a "Mobil 1 10W40" in place of the mineral and still ride without worrying about issues. The Service Center manager with whom i discussed in length has Zero experience in using Full synth oils on small motorcycles and esp Mobil 1 and does not budge to even
accept if he can go ahead and try it once for me. He tells he does not have the fat to experiment it and it's beyond his capability. What do i do here. I have a 1L Mobil 1 with me already. My ride has clocked 7,300 odd kms and is 1.5 years old.



Workshop Manual says 20W40 grade oil. But here we are talking about 10W40, I was told in the xxWyy factor for lower capacity motorcycles, the xx should be as low as possible and yy should be max of 40. Is it correct ?



Manual says during first time filling 1.2L and subsequent re-fills 1L, does it mean if i switch from mineral to full synth should i drain all oil and refill 1.2L?

Thanks a lot for your efforts and time spent on my thread.
Since you have done 7300 KM already, you can switch to synthetic after fully draining the mineral oil. Just ensure that the synthetic oil is bike specific and not one meant for cars. Else your clutch will start slipping.

If the bike is still under warranty, stick to Yamalube till it is over.

Last edited by Gansan : 8th August 2011 at 22:00.
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Old 9th August 2011, 17:39   #3083
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
Since you have done 7300 KM already, you can switch to synthetic after fully draining the mineral oil. Just ensure that the synthetic oil is bike specific and not one meant for cars. Else your clutch will start slipping.

If the bike is still under warranty, stick to Yamalube till it is over.
Hi Ganesan,

Yes, The oil is meant strictly meant for motorcycles, but it's mentioned for high performance and high revving motorcycles, so will the oil do justice and show it true character in commuter level motorcycles like the Yamaha Gladiator.

The warranty period of one year is already over and am already using the Yamalube Semisynth 15W50 oil that is used for the R15/FZ on my ride now, all i felt was, i could rev better during gear shifts but ride gets stressed out beyond 90kph, i mean bike struggles.

Clarification#1: Whether using a full synth motorcycle oil in small capacity
motorcycle have a remote possibility to cause clutch slipping when changing to a different oil in near future ?

Clarification#2:Till now i have used two grades in my ride Yamalube Mineral and Yamalube semisynth with the grades spec such as 20W40 of the former and 15W50 for the latter. Can i experiment a fullsynth oil here safely or is it better to stick on to one brand in the interest of not screwing up the internals ?
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Old 9th August 2011, 22:16   #3084
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by sriramr9 View Post
Hi Ganesan,

Yes, The oil is meant strictly meant for motorcycles, but it's mentioned for high performance and high revving motorcycles, so will the oil do justice and show it true character in commuter level motorcycles like the Yamaha Gladiator.

The warranty period of one year is already over and am already using the Yamalube Semisynth 15W50 oil that is used for the R15/FZ on my ride now, all i felt was, i could rev better during gear shifts but ride gets stressed out beyond 90kph, i mean bike struggles.

Clarification#1: Whether using a full synth motorcycle oil in small capacity
motorcycle have a remote possibility to cause clutch slipping when changing to a different oil in near future ?

Clarification#2:Till now i have used two grades in my ride Yamalube Mineral and Yamalube semisynth with the grades spec such as 20W40 of the former and 15W50 for the latter. Can i experiment a fullsynth oil here safely or is it better to stick on to one brand in the interest of not screwing up the internals ?
a) A full synth oil meant for bikes (eg: Shell Advance) will not cause the clutch to slip. Whereas if you use something like Shell Helix Ultra, it is sure to slip.

b) I would stick to Yamalube if I were you. No offence, but a mule simply won't run like a race horse, whatever you feed it! The only benefit you may feel in the longer run is enhanced engine life.

Last edited by Gansan : 9th August 2011 at 22:19.
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Old 10th August 2011, 17:03   #3085
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I use synthetic engine oil (Shell Helix Ultra) in both my older cars (Accent & Getz - I am a Hyundai fan). But those cases I had changed over to synthetic oil much later (after 15,000 kms+) in the car's life. I have just taken a Verna Fluidic 1.6 SX Petrol - which is due for first service. While I understand Hyundai does not prescribe oil change during first service - can I switch over to synthetic oil (after an engine flush of course) during first service? Request views of seasoned BHPians on pros & cons...
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Old 10th August 2011, 17:33   #3086
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by drivelust View Post
I use synthetic engine oil (Shell Helix Ultra) in both my older cars (Accent & Getz - I am a Hyundai fan). But those cases I had changed over to synthetic oil much later (after 15,000 kms+) in the car's life. I have just taken a Verna Fluidic 1.6 SX Petrol - which is due for first service. While I understand Hyundai does not prescribe oil change during first service - can I switch over to synthetic oil (after an engine flush of course) during first service? Request views of seasoned BHPians on pros & cons...
Modren engine making tools are much finer than earlier, hence are very precise. This does not mean that run in of a newer engine is not required but one should be able to use fully synthetic oil from very beginning. Many cars come with fully synthetic oil from factory itself. So you should be okay to switch over at first service itself. However please take of the following:

1. Make sure it does not impact your car's warranty (by using oil provided by you). Get the oil grade, API spec mentioned on the service record.
2. You do not have to use engine oil flush in a new engine (even to switch to syn). Just let the earlier oil drain out fully and do it when engine is still hot.
3. Even if you switch to syn, follow the run in process (atleast 3k km's), as you would do normally.

Completely my views, I feel Mobil1 is a better option than Shell Helix Ultra. Is Shell Helix Ultra upgraded to API-SN?

EDIT: An unsolicited advice . Unless you have totally decided to go for fully synthetic, I feel for normal day to day use cars (read non performance cars), good mineral oils offer decent enough performance/ protection. May be that's why even Honda engines use mineral oils and synthetics are offered as an option. Keeping other reasons of engine failure aside, even with good mineral oil, today's engine lasts over 1.5L km's before needing overhaul. And a good mineral oil is atleast priced 1/3 of the fully synthetic oil. The max I go for my petrol cars is semi syn from Mobil, Castrol or Total. Just making sure that grade is correct and API is atleast SL is good.

Last edited by amit1234singla : 10th August 2011 at 17:48.
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Old 11th August 2011, 01:34   #3087
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by sriramr9 View Post
Hi GTO, I ride a 123 cc single cylinder four stroke yamaha motorcycle that is prescribed to use a 20W40 mineral oil (Yamalube of course). Is it OK, if i plan to use a 10W40 full synth oil such as a "Mobil 1 10W40" in place of the mineral and still ride without worrying about issues. The Service Center manager with whom i discussed in length has Zero experience in using Full synth oils on small motorcycles and esp Mobil 1 and does not budge to even
accept if he can go ahead and try it once for me. He tells he does not have the fat to experiment it and it's beyond his capability. What do i do here. I have a 1L Mobil 1 with me already. My ride has clocked 7,300 odd kms and is 1.5 years old.



Workshop Manual says 20W40 grade oil. But here we are talking about 10W40, I was told in the xxWyy factor for lower capacity motorcycles, the xx should be as low as possible and yy should be max of 40. Is it correct ?



Manual says during first time filling 1.2L and subsequent re-fills 1L, does it mean if i switch from mineral to full synth should i drain all oil and refill 1.2L?

Thanks a lot for your efforts and time spent on my thread.

Though I am not GTO and Ganson has helped you, here are my 2cents.

The oil in an engine, esp bike engine is to Protect and clean the engine. It in no way will help you go faster or increase your perceptibly increase your accelaration (pick up) unless you are using it on a High cap (>200cc) engine. If it was so easy to increase top end and acc people would have just switched oils.

A Synth for a low cap commuter bike is a total waste of money. You will be changing the oil at around the 3K mark anyway. Yes, it will help better if you are a redline shifter, however a lot of good mineral or Semi Synth oils hold up better. Many Synths are known to have higher detergence which also leads them to break down in a bike.

Also, try not to mess with the lower of the two numbers on your oil grade. This typically is based on the expected starting temperatures of your engine and the viscosity needed to offer optimal protection. Using a 10 instead of a 20 is ok, however if you live anywhere south of Delhi (and delhi in the summer) I would say stick to 20W40. About your point of 'in a low cap bike oil with XXW40, XX should be low as possible' is wrong. These are temperature/viscosity ratings. example for a given viscosity X the 10W40 oil will run thinner over the range than a 20W40 oil.

Also Synth is considerably expensive. If you are a high revving rider, suggest you change oil more frequently (2000kms instead of 3000 kms for example)
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Old 11th August 2011, 02:39   #3088
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by sriramr9 View Post
remote possibility to cause clutch slipping when changing to a different oil in near future ?
Its usually better for the engine, when you go up, and not down. ie, Mineral>Semi Synth>Fully Synth. The way back is not much advisable. Once Synth, stay that way.

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Originally Posted by drivelust View Post
can I switch over to synthetic oil (after an engine flush of course) during first service?
I would still prefer to run my engine atleast 10k kms, before changing to Synthetic oil. It offers faster run-in, which is what is required for optimum performance and life.
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Old 17th August 2011, 22:05   #3089
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I had recently replaced engine oil for my Honda Dio with Shell oil and have observed that the mileage had drastically dropped from 42-45 to 30-33. And also i notice a huge amount of oil leak from the engine compartment underneath the bike.(But there are not droplets on the floor). Is there any problem with the oil.

I use to notice the same thing with my CBZ also when it was replaced with shell/castrol oils.
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Old 17th August 2011, 22:39   #3090
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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I had recently replaced engine oil for my Honda Dio with Shell oil and have observed that the mileage had drastically dropped from 42-45 to 30-33. And also i notice a huge amount of oil leak from the engine compartment underneath the bike.(But there are not droplets on the floor). Is there any problem with the oil.

I use to notice the same thing with my CBZ also when it was replaced with shell/castrol oils.
Bikes use oils designed for wet clutch systems. i think you put oil meant for cars in bike and this will happen
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