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Old 8th October 2011, 17:15   #3121
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Looking to the varying prices I am just putting an update here to help those who are about to buy synth oil. I have found a variation of about 30% in Ahmedabad.

Motul 8100 xcexx 5w40 Group III- retailing 4400. Best price 3300
Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 Group III- retailing 3950. Best price 3100

If anybody has found any better price, please post.
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Old 28th October 2011, 02:20   #3122
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Hello all,

Can someone please tell me what grade mineral oil is used in NHC. I believe they use Idemitsu which is made by Savita Chemicals in India. But i dont know the SAE viscosity, I think it will help lots of people as like me many are fed up of Honda Dealers.
my NHC has run 50k KM on normal mineral oil from Honda A.S.S. I want to keep using mineral or semi-synth so the grading of mineral oil poured into NHC would be very useful.

Also looking at this pdf:
http://www.savita.com/pdf/idemitsu.pdf

It just shows one HONDA Genuine Oil which is 20W50 SJ! What is the correct oil spec?
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Old 28th October 2011, 09:20   #3123
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

^^Is there not any mention of recommended oil grades in the owners' manual?
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Old 28th October 2011, 09:27   #3124
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

The oil specified in my Civic is SL minimum. Savita is also marketing Idemitsu under their own label. I suspect the site is very old and not updated. Honda are selling OE synth (0W30).
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Old 31st October 2011, 17:38   #3125
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
^^Is there not any mention of recommended oil grades in the owners' manual?
No! It just says use Honda Genuine Oil which meets API SL certification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
The oil specified in my Civic is SL minimum. Savita is also marketing Idemitsu under their own label. I suspect the site is very old and not updated. Honda are selling OE synth (0W30).
API SL is mentioned in CityZX manual too. But viscosity is not.

Synth oil is (0W30) ? Are you sure?
And does this mean semi-synth also has to be 10W30 or xW30 ?

Really need this, else i will have to go back to HondaASS which i simply dont want to.
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Old 1st November 2011, 09:32   #3126
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I think the oil should be the same as for the Civic. The specs (given on a different page) are SAE30 max. So 5W30 or 0W30 are both Ok. SAE 40's and even 50's are also Ok. 0wxx will be a synth, while 5W30 can be a semi (eg Magnatec) as well. Most modern engines are quite happy with SAE30! In the US the specs allow 0W20 as well.

Search and you may find the grades elsewhere.
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Old 1st November 2011, 19:43   #3127
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
I think the oil should be the same as for the Civic. The specs (given on a different page) are SAE30 max. So 5W30 or 0W30 are both Ok. SAE 40's and even 50's are also Ok. 0wxx will be a synth, while 5W30 can be a semi (eg Magnatec) as well. Most modern engines are quite happy with SAE30! In the US the specs allow 0W20 as well.

Search and you may find the grades elsewhere.
Are you sure the oil is same as civic? The engines are very different.
I think mineral oil will be xW30 or xW40.
What is the harm if i put in one in place of the other?
I think putting xW40 is better to rule out any under lubrication.
But will using SAE40 on an earlier SAE30 running engine cause any problems?

Ive searched a lot and have not found this anywhere on the net!

Can anyone friendly with a HONDA service advisor please ask and tell me?
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Old 1st November 2011, 21:26   #3128
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by guptavis View Post
Are you sure the oil is same as civic? The engines are very different.
I think mineral oil will be xW30 or xW40.
What is the harm if i put in one in place of the other?
I think putting xW40 is better to rule out any under lubrication.
But will using SAE40 on an earlier SAE30 running engine cause any problems?

Ive searched a lot and have not found this anywhere on the net!

Can anyone friendly with a HONDA service advisor please ask and tell me?
If you are sure the manual specifies API-SL grade, try Shell helix HX-5. This is a mineral 15W40 / API-SL oil which I use for my car. This will be safer than using XW30 grade - err on the side of caution.

What is the problem with Honda genuine oil? Do they refuse to sell it to you?
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Old 2nd November 2011, 09:32   #3129
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by guptavis View Post
Are you sure the oil is same as civic? The engines are very different.
I think mineral oil will be xW30 or xW40.
What is the harm if i put in one in place of the other?
I think putting xW40 is better to rule out any under lubrication.
But will using SAE40 on an earlier SAE30 running engine cause any problems?

Ive searched a lot and have not found this anywhere on the net!
I do not think the oil requirements will differ too much. Almost all modern engines are happy with 30!

As for the oil I am repeating myself, but this may be useful. Oil is aWb. aW is the viscosity of the oil when cold (W stands for Winter Grade), and b the viscosity of the hot oil. A low a means the oil circulates quickly when you start the car and is not that critical. Unless you live in Ladakh this may not be that critical.

b is the viscosity of the hot oil and should be equal or higher than the specifications. The reason, you want to avoid any metal to metal contact, the oil film should always be there. A higher b in principle leads to more power losses, but I think the impact in minimal and probably imperceptible.

I put in Mobil 1 (0W40) into my Civic at six months. Now that the engine is run-in I will revert to the 0W30 Idemitsu as supplied by Honda.

The oil is actually aW with viscosity improvers which stop it from thinning to below b. Yes, oil does thin down dramatically as it warms up. Also 0 should be interpreted as <5 (like a 0 power light bulb!).

A synth has a wider range, say 0W30 while a semi synth will be 5W30 at best.

Last edited by sgiitk : 2nd November 2011 at 09:38.
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Old 3rd November 2011, 01:09   #3130
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
If you are sure the manual specifies API-SL grade, try Shell helix HX-5. This is a mineral 15W40 / API-SL oil which I use for my car. This will be safer than using XW30 grade - err on the side of caution.

What is the problem with Honda genuine oil? Do they refuse to sell it to you?
Thanks for the suggestion Gansan, HX5 will probably be the next change for my Alto. I was thinking on the lines of Total Quartz 7000 or if i can find it, Idemitsu (dont know which but semi-synth) for my city. even 'Genuine Honda' oil they fill at Honda Dealer costs around ~900 for 4L. So they probably use a semi-synth. HX5 is mineral, do you know how good HX7 is?

I didnt try to go and buy just the oil. I think they probably wont sell it over-the-counter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
I do not think the oil requirements will differ too much. Almost all modern engines are happy with 30!

I put in Mobil 1 (0W40) into my Civic at six months. Now that the engine is run-in I will revert to the 0W30 Idemitsu as supplied by Honda.
Thanks for the explanation again sgiitk! i read this explanation in another post by you, so not worrying much about the a in aWb. Just the b is making me uncomfortable.

Will wait for a while and try to find what the actual oil grade is, or will get an Idemitsu xW30.
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Old 3rd November 2011, 09:32   #3131
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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HX5 is mineral, do you know how good HX7 is?
I have recently seen this oil in the Shell station. It is API-SM,10W40 spec, so should be semi-synth and better than HX-5. Costs only marginally more so I am planning this for my next change.
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Old 3rd November 2011, 09:46   #3132
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

@Gansan; it looks like a semi-synth. With hydraulic tappets a thin oil at startup may be handy. So if SAE30 is allowed then I will rather go for 5W30 than 10W40. Incidentally, Magnatec has both.
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Old 3rd November 2011, 09:51   #3133
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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@Gansan; it looks like a semi-synth. With hydraulic tappets a thin oil at startup may be handy. So if SAE30 is allowed then I will rather go for 5W30 than 10W40. Incidentally, Magnatec has both.
The manual does allow 10W30 for certain ambient temperatures, but those conditions will exist in Chennai just for may be two months in a year!
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Old 4th November 2011, 09:16   #3134
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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The manual does allow 10W30 for certain ambient temperatures, but those conditions will exist in Chennai just for may be two months in a year!
Then you must get 10W40 semi-synth or 0/5W40 synth!
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Old 5th November 2011, 06:19   #3135
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
I have recently seen this oil in the Shell station. It is API-SM,10W40 spec, so should be semi-synth and better than HX-5. Costs only marginally more so I am planning this for my next change.
Be careful if you put it in your Alto. One mechanic said sometimes (around 1 in 10 altos) start leaking oil if you put 10wX. He said for the older 800 and alto use atleast 15wX or 20wX.

Tried to ask HondaDealer for a spare can of oil and he said they only get bulk drums and put as much as required. They dont sell it OTC. Didnt know (or tell) the grade, he said its just Honda Genuine Oil !!

Last edited by guptavis : 5th November 2011 at 06:22.
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