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Old 9th December 2011, 12:03   #3181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iikish
Ok, thanks. Which variant and brand do you use?
Mobil1 fully synthetic oil - 0w40. Replaced it again with the same after 11k kms ( 1 year )
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Old 9th December 2011, 12:12   #3182
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I know this is a never-ending topic, but do we have any conclusion on the following??

1. Do fully synthetic oils really make a difference to Indian cars running in Indian conditions?
2. Is it ok to use fully synthetic oil on an engine which is run over 1L kms?
3. Which is a good & cost effective fully synthetic oil to use?
4. How often (kms/months) would one need to change fully synthetic oil considering the Indian conditions?
5. Should one do an engine flush before changing over to fully synthetic oil?
6. Any other important issues to be considered?

Last edited by KSM-Vtec : 9th December 2011 at 12:13.
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Old 9th December 2011, 13:32   #3183
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by KSM-Vtec View Post
I know this is a never-ending topic, but do we have any conclusion on the following??

1. Do fully synthetic oils really make a difference to Indian cars running in Indian conditions?
2. Is it ok to use fully synthetic oil on an engine which is run over 1L kms?
3. Which is a good & cost effective fully synthetic oil to use?
4. How often (kms/months) would one need to change fully synthetic oil considering the Indian conditions?
5. Should one do an engine flush before changing over to fully synthetic oil?
6. Any other important issues to be considered?
Find your answers numbered as your questions.

1. Yes and No (As opinions differs)

2. It is Ok.No problems.(But why change if it has run 1L without any issues)

3.All synthetics are good again its a personal choice.And No synthetic is cost effective.(Personal opinion)

4.As per your car manufacturers recommendation. Otherwise 10K or 1Yr is fine.(Irrespective of the oil you use eg. Synthetic,Mineral etc)

5.Not Neccessary.

6.Cant think of any at the moment.
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Old 9th December 2011, 13:57   #3184
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Hey oilmonkey thanks for your reply! but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by oilmonkey View Post
Find your answers numbered as your questions.

1. Yes and No (As opinions differs) Well this is the most important question...need someone to answer this with a YES or a NO

2. It is Ok.No problems.(But why change if it has run 1L without any issues) One would change for better results, why not move to a better product

3.All synthetics are good again its a personal choice.And No synthetic is cost effective.(Personal opinion) Well if you can run a fully synthetic oil for 3 times the distance/time then it can be cost effective or equal.

4.As per your car manufacturers recommendation. Otherwise 10K or 1Yr is fine.(Irrespective of the oil you use eg. Synthetic,Mineral etc) It should be 5k kms for a petrol car running mineral oil isint it?

5.Not Neccessary.

6.Cant think of any at the moment.
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Old 9th December 2011, 14:34   #3185
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by KSM-Vtec View Post
I know this is a never-ending topic, but do we have any conclusion on the following??

1. Do fully synthetic oils really make a difference to Indian cars running in Indian conditions?
2. Is it ok to use fully synthetic oil on an engine which is run over 1L kms?
3. Which is a good & cost effective fully synthetic oil to use?
4. How often (kms/months) would one need to change fully synthetic oil considering the Indian conditions?
5. Should one do an engine flush before changing over to fully synthetic oil?
6. Any other important issues to be considered?
1) Absolutely yes, been doing it for all my cars and they run much smoother and also since most of my cars run on full blast on highway it is surely making a marked difference

2) as long as the engine is in good running condition i dont think its a problem/issue

3) i have been using castrol Edge or Shell ultra helix, both are expensive compared to normal Mineral oil, usually more than 2 to 3 times the cost of mineral oil

4) i would change mineral oil between 6000 to 7000 kms and on synthetic i do around 9000 to 10000 Kms

5) preferable not mandatory

6) make sure you use grade equal to or better than the one mentioned in the Manual; dont go by hear say, ( read the details about the oil, usually mentioned behind the pack)


hope this helps
enjoy a smoother ride

P.S i have practiced use of synthetic oil only in diesels and on petrol's i would run on Semi-synthetics
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Old 9th December 2011, 22:53   #3186
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Smile Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by KSM-Vtec View Post
1. Do fully synthetic oils really make a difference to Indian cars running in Indian conditions?
My experience with Esteem Petrol MPFi was a world of difference. The engine felt very refined even at high rpms. Idle noise of the engine came down by a lot. If you are someone who like to push the accelerator hard, synthetic should bring in a difference for you. Add to that, the added life of the engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KSM-Vtec View Post
2. Is it ok to use fully synthetic oil on an engine which is run over 1L kms?
Ok, as long as there are no leaks. Synthetic oils are less viscous. So, more chance of leak, if there is any small gap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KSM-Vtec View Post
3. Which is a good & cost effective fully synthetic oil to use?
Mobil 1 is said to be one of the best. Synthetic oil becomes cost effective, if you cover 15,000 to 20,000 kms a year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KSM-Vtec View Post
4. How often (kms/months) would one need to change fully synthetic oil considering the Indian conditions?
Even though, synthetic oil is supposed to last for 30,000 kms, in Indian conditions, it should be changed faster. Maruti Service Masters - Autoteam Cochin's co-Director recommended oil change interval of 20,000 kms or 1 year whichever comes first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KSM-Vtec View Post
5. Should one do an engine flush before changing over to fully synthetic oil?
Yes, you need to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KSM-Vtec View Post
6. Any other important issues to be considered?
Synthetic oils are recommended only after the first 10,000 kms of a car.

Last edited by amalji : 9th December 2011 at 22:57.
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Old 10th December 2011, 01:00   #3187
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

There are a few points in the post above that are of concern, these are quoted followed by my replies below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
Ok, as long as there are no leaks. Synthetic oils are less viscous. So, more chance of leak, if there is any small gap.
For a given grade say for example 5 W40 all types of oils whether Synthetic, semi synthetic or mineral will have the same viscosity over the entire temperature range. That is what the grade is all about. The difference is in the overall number repeated cycles that the oil can sustain while maintaining the same viscosity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
Yes, you need to.
Engine flush is not at all required when changing from a mineral to Synthetic oil or vice versa. Infact in engines that have seen a fair amount of running like say 1L+ kilometers it is not desirable unless there are other issues involved.


Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
Synthetic oils are recommended only after the first 10,000 kms of a car.
This is no longer valid. Quite a number of cars now come factory filled with Synthetic oil.
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Old 10th December 2011, 07:42   #3188
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Smile Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
For a given grade say for example 5 W40 all types of oils whether Synthetic, semi synthetic or mineral will have the same viscosity over the entire temperature range. That is what the grade is all about. The difference is in the overall number repeated cycles that the oil can sustain while maintaining the same viscosity.
Thanks for correcting me. I was given this impression by my service advisor. Also, my engine was filled by a less viscous 0w40 synthetic compared to the mineral oil used ( 20w50 ). With regards to the leaks, the actual reason seems to be a different one - Leaky Seals & Synthetic Oil Leaks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
Engine flush is not at all required when changing from a mineral to Synthetic oil or vice versa. Infact in engines that have seen a fair amount of running like say 1L+ kilometers it is not desirable unless there are other issues involved.
The service center recommended the engine flush before the switch to synthetic. Not sure, what the reason is. Maybe, they want to ensure that it's fully clean to make use the benefits of the synthetics in the best way. But, I checked Mobil's website, and they seem to suggest that engine flush is not at all required. Reference - Myths about synthetic Oil

Also, could you elaborate on why it's not recommended to do engine flush post 1lakh kms ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
This is no longer valid. Quite a number of cars now come factory filled with Synthetic oil.
This is under the assumption that the modern engines doesn't require the break-in period. But, it's still a safer bet to not change the default engine oil ( whether it's mineral or synthetic ) until the replacement interval is reached.

Last edited by amalji : 10th December 2011 at 07:43.
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Old 10th December 2011, 17:00   #3189
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:

Even though, synthetic oil is supposed to last for 30,000 kms, in Indian conditions, it should be changed faster. Maruti Service Masters - Autoteam Cochin's co-Director recommended oil change interval of 20,000 kms or 1 year whichever comes first.
I completely agree with Khoj.But let me make it more clear

All oil manufacturers recommend to follow your car manual for oil change.
And take my word for it.Most of the synthetics would give up or about to give up most of their properties by 10K.

Oil Change interval mostly recommended by manufacturer's-
Petrol - 10K or 1 Year
Diesel -5K-6K or 6months.

Regarding the run-in period.
What Khoj said is correct but it is different for all manufacture's.
Not all car's come filled with Synthetic from factory except for the high value cars Eg BMW,Merc.
I know the Indian Polo too has it but it is because of the engineering of that engine.

I hope this post might clear things more for everybody.
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Old 10th December 2011, 17:39   #3190
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
1. Do fully synthetic oils really make a difference to Indian cars running in Indian conditions?
Yes, engine feels freer and revvs smoother. I get 1kmpl+ more than I used to before I switched at about 78k or so on my Lancer
Quote:
2. Is it ok to use fully synthetic oil on an engine which is run over 1L kms?
Yes, should be quite fine.
Quote:
3. Which is a good & cost effective fully synthetic oil to use?
All fully synthetic oils are expensive. I use Motul 5W40 since A.S.S. uses that. Costs about 1k/l. Mobil 1 is similar.
Quote:
4. How often (kms/months) would one need to change fully synthetic oil considering the Indian conditions?
HM says 20k km, and some on the forum say 7-8k km. Personally, I think 11-12k km or 1 year is fine.
Quote:
5. Should one do an engine flush before changing over to fully synthetic oil?
For an old engine which was never flushed before, my recommendation is *NO*. I got this from a few other experts as well. Just do the 1st post-synthetic oil change in 6-7k km. Later you can also add bardahl mild flush agent or similar when you change engine oil if you wish.
Quote:
6. Any other important issues to be considered?
Try to ensure that the old mineral oil is as fully drained as possible w/o flush, so as less a quantity of it as possible remains in the engine ... Use 5W40 grade as it fits well to most of our cars and our temperatures.

@amalji, post 1lakh km (or actually even at 60k or 70k), a good bit of deposits act to seal of leakages etc. Doing a flush for the first time, can spring leaks etc, so the downside is higher than the upside. Actually, it has nothing to do with switching to synthetic... Use of mild flushing agents maybe attempted ...

Last edited by lancer_rit : 10th December 2011 at 17:44.
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Old 11th December 2011, 01:35   #3191
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

lancer_rit has already explained why engine flush is not recommended on engines with high milage, I will just add to it.

The modern day synthetic oils already have flushing agents incorporated in their formulae. Recall their tag lines "keeps your engine running like new" etc. etc.
Using the same after an engine flush will be like a double whammy for the old block. This is also the reason why many people complain that their old engine's performance has declined after switching to synthetics as the flushing agents therein clean out the gunk (which may be acting as a sealant or aiding the old seals to hold true) thus giving way to compression leaks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
Also, could you elaborate on why it's not recommended to do engine flush post 1lakh kms ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer_rit View Post
@amalji, post 1lakh km (or actually even at 60k or 70k), a good bit of deposits act to seal of leakages etc. Doing a flush for the first time, can spring leaks etc, so the downside is higher than the upside. Actually, it has nothing to do with switching to synthetic... Use of mild flushing agents maybe attempted ...


If you read the relevant bit of my post again you will note that I am not talking about changing the oil but that these days the default oil filled in the factory itself is Synthetic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
This is under the assumption that the modern engines doesn't require the break-in period. But, it's still a safer bet to not change the default engine oil ( whether it's mineral or synthetic ) until the replacement interval is reached.
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Old 13th December 2011, 11:08   #3192
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Originally Posted by oilmonkey View Post
I completely agree with Khoj.But let me make it more clear

All oil manufacturers recommend to follow your car manual for oil change.
And take my word for it.Most of the synthetics would give up or about to give up most of their properties by 10K.

Oil Change interval mostly recommended by manufacturer's-
Petrol - 10K or 1 Year
Diesel -5K-6K or 6months.
I'm not sure about the durability mentioned above regarding fully synthetic oils. The oil companies claim that it can last upwards of 30,000 kms with fully synthetic oil. So, 5k-6k for Diesels seems to be too low for synthetic oil change. I own a Toyota Etios Diesel and the oil change interval recommended on normal mineral oil is 10,000 kms or 1 year. So, on fully synthetic oils shouldn't it be longer because the oil companies claim that it can last longer ?

Mobil1's video promoting the durability of their engine oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
If you read the relevant bit of my post again you will note that I am not talking about changing the oil but that these days the default oil filled in the factory itself is Synthetic.
My point was - "If it is filled with the synthetic, it means the manufacturer is confident about the engine not needing a run-in. If it's not filled with synthetic by default, the engine might need a run-in". So, it's safer to not change the default engine oil on a new car until the first oil change interval is reached regardless of whether it's filled with synthetic or non-synthetic.

Last edited by amalji : 13th December 2011 at 11:19.
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Old 13th December 2011, 11:59   #3193
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
I'm not sure about the durability mentioned above regarding fully synthetic oils. The oil companies claim that it can last upwards of 30,000 kms with fully synthetic oil. So, 5k-6k for Diesels seems to be too low for synthetic oil change. I own a Toyota Etios Diesel and the oil change interval recommended on normal mineral oil is 10,000 kms or 1 year. So, on fully synthetic oils shouldn't it be longer because the oil companies claim that it can last longer ?

Mobil1's video promoting the durability of their engine oils



My point was - "If it is filled with the synthetic, it means the manufacturer is confident about the engine not needing a run-in. If it's not filled with synthetic by default, the engine might need a run-in". So, it's safer to not change the default engine oil on a new car until the first oil change interval is reached regardless of whether it's filled with synthetic or non-synthetic.
I was speaking in regards to extra care of the diesel engines.They tend to run
with a lot of sooth and deposits because of the nature of engine and the type of fuel Diesel is.
If you want to maintain your diesel engine well mineral engine oil change at 5-6K kms will keep it running forever.Synthetic can stretch upto 1-2K more due to its pricing.
And about why i say that 30,000kms are marketing claims nothing more.

Try and search for Used Oil Analysis.It is done by many companies.You will be in a rude shock when you know the truth.
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Old 19th December 2011, 10:25   #3194
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

The oil recommened for sx4 is 5W40 as per maruti. I have purchased 5W50 Mobil1 synthetic . Is it ok to go with this grade or should i go for 5W40 in synthetic ?
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Old 19th December 2011, 10:36   #3195
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by M124 View Post
The oil recommened for sx4 is 5W40 as per maruti. I have purchased 5W50 Mobil1 synthetic . Is it ok to go with this grade or should i go for 5W40 in synthetic ?
You should go for Mobil Delvac 1 5W40 which is a diesel specific synthetic, meets the required specs and I have heard is also used by Maruti ASC's in SX4 diesel. Mobil 1 0W40 or 5W50 are primarily petrol specific oils with diesel compatibility as well but why not use Delvac 1 which is used by OEM as well. I think Delvac 1 will be a little cheaper as well than Mobil1.

BTW, is Maruti ASC at your place not using Delvac 1? If not, would they let you use your own oil while the car is in warranty?
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