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Old 10th January 2012, 15:09   #3241
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Older cars have a recommendation of SAE40 hence the newer oils may not be kosher. There is a Shell 5W40(or is it 50) which is a Hydrocracked oil (so eligible for the Synthetic tag). Let me repeat VFM is in favour of semi-synth or even mineral. Make sure you get API-SM (or if there is any SN). Any oil which is equal or higher that API-SF (prehistoric) is ok for a year or 10,000km.
I've heard that the new API-SM variants stress more on emissions and less on engine wear and tear. I also read a lot on this with many agreeing to this point.

Does this mean that going for API-SJ API-SH or API-SL will be better for our cars?

Also in this case can motorcycle oils be used in our cars since they have lower emission requirements?
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Old 10th January 2012, 15:17   #3242
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by jinojohnt View Post
1. As per 'conventional wisdom', one needs to change engine oil after the first thousand km (to remove 'factory' debris) and stick to mineral oil till 10 thousand km to allow better 'run-in'.

2. But as per Manual of K-series engine cars, we are supposed to change 'factory filled' engine oil only at 10 thousand km. Also, synthetic oil is recommended through out. Can somebody please explain this?
1. This is what I also thought. However, when I got a car recommending change only at six months I checked with my guru in the UK. He stated modern engines are so well built that kerf generation is minimal, so the later point for oil change,
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Originally Posted by M124 View Post
Factory filled is not synthetic. May be semi synth .
Honda's used to have an oil change at the second service. When I objected and showed the SA that change is only at six months, he stated that they must now be putting in a synth. When I took delivery of the car after service the SM raised the same point, and was given the same answer.

When I checked the oil in my Civic when new I could see that it was definitely thinner than SAE10, so I suspected synthetic which my subsequent experience above confirmed. Since the original fill was synth I stuck with it. Only I got Mobil 1 0W40 and after a year switched to Idemitsu 0W30 as it was Rs.1000 cheaper. Also, SAE30 should in principle give me a slightly (maybe 0.1%) better consumption!
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Old 10th January 2012, 15:50   #3243
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
1. This is what I also thought. However, when I got a car recommending change only at six months I checked with my guru in the UK. He stated modern engines are so well built that kerf generation is minimal, so the later point for oil change,
For my A-star Auto, the recommended FIRST oil change is only at one year/10,000 km. Is it safe to wait that much or should I change oil at 1000 km itself?

Last edited by jinojohnt : 10th January 2012 at 15:52.
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Old 10th January 2012, 15:56   #3244
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by jinojohnt View Post
For my A-star Auto, the recommended FIRST oil change is only at one year/10,000 km. Is it safe to wait that much or should I change oil at 1000 km itself?
I will stick with the company recommendations. There is also a long standing story that the oil used for running-in in the initial period may have a different viscosity or some additives.
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Old 10th January 2012, 16:54   #3245
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

This argument is true to an extent because the latest API ratings like SL & SM have much reduced concentrations of certain elements like Zinc (in some form like ZDDP) & it is these additives that help protect the engine under conditions of extreme stress. For instance, the Zinc that I mentioned is critical when there is metal to metal contact.

Secondly, no, motorcycle oils should not be used in cars because they have friction modifiers. Most motorcycle oils available in India are for bikes available here that have a wet-clutch system. Therefore, the oils have friction modifiers to eliminate clutch slippage (JASO-MA2 specification) & so, though these oils suit a motorcycle engine, they are not so good for a car engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devarshi84 View Post
I've heard that the new API-SM variants stress more on emissions and less on engine wear and tear. I also read a lot on this with many agreeing to this point.

Does this mean that going for API-SJ API-SH or API-SL will be better for our cars?

Also in this case can motorcycle oils be used in our cars since they have lower emission requirements?

Last edited by blackfire_9 : 10th January 2012 at 16:55.
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Old 16th January 2012, 20:02   #3246
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I got my Wagon R (F10d) serviced today at MASS and they have billed me for 5W30 (SemiSynth - Total Quartz SMC MGO).
I was going through the Service manual and found that 5W30 is suitable for ambient temperatures upto 10 C. Although i have seen many people have mentioned the same grade being used in their maruti vehicles as well. But with respect to Delhi , haven't they filled the wrong oil then?
Snapshot from the Wagon R F10 & K-Series Service Manual respectively.
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Last edited by k2max6 : 16th January 2012 at 20:17.
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Old 16th January 2012, 20:49   #3247
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

The F is the old engine and needs a SAE40 oil, the new K-series is quite happy with SAE-30. They are listed only to protect the dinosaurs (ie oil PSUs). The only valid grades are API-SJ (obsolescent), SL, SM and SN. All older grades are obsolete, and SF and SG are there only to cover the dinosaurs (aka oil PSUs).

As an example my Santro needs SAE 40 (Castrol Magnatec 10W40) while the Civic is quite happy with SAE30 (Idemitsu 0W30). I have to make sure that I get the correct Magnatec since a SAE30 is also around.

Last edited by sgiitk : 16th January 2012 at 20:57. Reason: Second paragraph added
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Old 16th January 2012, 20:50   #3248
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

This is a common thing that most MASS workshops have started indulging in. The 5W30 oil that they have is meant for the new K-series engines but more often than not, you would find SAs & mechanics recommending this oil with the explanation that it's semi-synthetic or synthetic & if it can do well in an advanced engine like the K-series, it sure can do great in an older engine.

But the real reason is that they get to charge more & earn more. Show your SA these manuals & ask him to get the oil replaced with a refund of the extra money that they would have charged over the cost of a normal mineral oil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k2max6 View Post
I got my Wagon R (F10d) serviced today at MASS and they have billed me for 5W30 (SemiSynth - Total Quartz SMC MGO).
I was going through the Service manual and found that 5W30 is suitable for ambient temperatures upto 10 C. Although i have seen many people have mentioned the same grade being used in their maruti vehicles as well. But with respect to Delhi , haven't they filled the wrong oil then?
Snapshot from the Wagon R F10 & K-Series Service Manual respectively.
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Old 16th January 2012, 20:54   #3249
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
The F is the old engine and needs a SAE40 oil, the new K-series is quite happy with SAE-30. They are listed only to protect the dinosaurs (ie oil PSUs). The only valid grades are API-SJ (obsolescent), SL, SM and SN. All older grades are obsolete, and SF and SG are there only to cover the dinosaurs (aka oil PSUs).
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Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
This is a common thing that most MASS workshops have started indulging in. The 5W30 oil that they have is meant for the new K-series engines but more often than not, you would find SAs & mechanics recommending this oil with the explanation that it's semi-synthetic or synthetic & if it can do well in an advanced engine like the K-series, it sure can do great in an older engine.

But the real reason is that they get to charge more & earn more. Show your SA these manuals & ask him to get the oil replaced with a refund of the extra money that they would have charged over the cost of a normal mineral oil.
Thanks.I was getting double minded since i saw the bill.
I'll go tomorrow and get the oil changed.
Just for info : Can this oil cause damage to the engine ?
Also - Which would be the best semi synthetic for the F10D with grade ?

Last edited by k2max6 : 16th January 2012 at 20:55.
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Old 16th January 2012, 21:01   #3250
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by k2max6 View Post
Just for info : Can this oil cause damage to the engine ?
In principle yes, but the possibility is rather low. As I have stated many times earlier, oil is specified as mWn. For m using a thinner rating is fine, for n a thicker oil is fine.
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Old 16th January 2012, 21:04   #3251
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

For the short span of time that you have had this oil in your engine & considering the temperature today in Delhi/NCR, don't worry about any sort of damage to the engine. Just keep a watch on the oil while it's being removed, there should not be any metal shavings etc in the oil. This is highly unlikely, but I am still just suggesting to keep a watch, to be on the safer side.

As for the best engine oil, it's subjective but you can get any semi-synthetic that's of the grade 10W40. And hey, most semi-synthetics for petrols are this grade only, so you won't have any difficulty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k2max6 View Post
Thanks.I was getting double minded since i saw the bill.
I'll go tomorrow and get the oil changed.
Just for info : Can this oil cause damage to the engine ?
Also - Which would be the best semi synthetic for the F10D with grade ?
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Old 16th January 2012, 21:14   #3252
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
For the short span of time that you have had this oil in your engine & considering the temperature today in Delhi/NCR, don't worry about any sort of damage to the engine. Just keep a watch on the oil while it's being removed, there should not be any metal shavings etc in the oil. This is highly unlikely, but I am still just suggesting to keep a watch, to be on the safer side.

As for the best engine oil, it's subjective but you can get any semi-synthetic that's of the grade 10W40. And hey, most semi-synthetics for petrols are this grade only, so you won't have any difficulty.
In post #3151 its written that by Maruti's instructions this is the recommended oil for all MPFI cars.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modify...ml#post2595776 (ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil)
So if they don't change the oil ?
Can it cause damage if used for say next 3 months ?

Last edited by k2max6 : 16th January 2012 at 21:19.
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Old 16th January 2012, 21:37   #3253
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Does anybody here have any experience with Bosch 15W40 engine oil?, I want to put that in my Safari 2.2 Dicor so is it advisable?
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Old 16th January 2012, 23:56   #3254
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by k2max6 View Post
In post #3151 its written that by Maruti's instructions this is the recommended oil for all MPFI cars.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modify...ml#post2595776 (ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil)
So if they don't change the oil ?
Can it cause damage if used for say next 3 months ?
I think I have heard that earlier & I have also posted my comments regarding this at some place, but let me say that again. At least in Delhi & Gurgaon, there is no such guideline & had this been true, Maruti would have been using this oil since long in all their MPFI cars. If I remember correctly, the other thread where I heard about this news, had also mentioned that Maruti recommends mineral oil only for their carburetted engines. So, I wouldn't believe this. Moreover, because most cars today are fuel injected, it would have had been next to impossible to find mineral oil at MASS if such guidelines had been issued.

So, don't keep this oil for 3 months & get it changed asap. They would have to change the oil, take your owner's manual with you. If they don't, get the oil changed from outside & lodge a complaint against this MASS with Maruti.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richie4u View Post
Does anybody here have any experience with Bosch 15W40 engine oil?, I want to put that in my Safari 2.2 Dicor so is it advisable?
The only thing I know about the oils from Bosch is that they are manufactured by some other company & not Bosch. Having said that, Bosch must have serious quality controls & the product should be good.

Though, my personal suggestion would be to pick up something from an oil manufacturer rather than a company who is selling goods manufactured by some other company, under their label. Which oil do you use right now?

Last edited by blackfire_9 : 17th January 2012 at 00:10.
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Old 17th January 2012, 00:06   #3255
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Though, my personal suggestion would be to pick up something from an oil manufacturer rather than a company who is selling goods manufactured by some other company, under their label. Which oil do you use right now?
Well the current oil in my Safari is Mobil, but I need to change the oil now so I had visited the Bosch service center who gave me two options 1) bosch 15W40 (mineral-Rs. 375/l aprox) or 2) Mobil Delvac 5W40(synthetic 950/l)

I currently want to go in for a mineral oil so just wanted to ask for your opinion , well If not Bosch which is a good mineral oil for my Tata safari 2.2 dicor (15W40, CH-4 Rating or better) please advise.
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