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Old 17th January 2012, 16:27   #3271
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Precisely my point as well when I spoke of an oil that's too thin, but you seem to have elaborated it in a better way. And this is why it's important to choose an oil with a viscosity grade that suits one's car engine in the existing set of conditions.

But, if the chances of metal to metal contact are zero, how is it that our modern day engines also require a replacement of piston rings or cams or such parts? Does that mean that our engines do not run under ideal conditions?

Secondly, what is an on-off spot weld? Can you share a picture if possible, because I couldn't find any details on it & I would really like to know about it.

And you should share, that's the point of a forum of this sort

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Originally Posted by khoj View Post
While all lubricating liquids will do well to coat the metal surfaces with the required microscopic layer, the question is for how long and how many repeated cycles given a certain application.

Any how when I post the idea is not to start an unnecessary discussion but only to share the wee bit that I know about the subject at hand.
@ravindra: What is the viscosity grade specified for your car's engine?
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Old 17th January 2012, 17:37   #3272
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Got the oil changed !
Let me put the entire case in this post.

Jan 16,2012 - I get my car back from Service. At Night was going through this thread which made me curious about the grade of engine oils and started exploring the best suitable for my Wagon R (F10D). Then saw my bill with engine oil 5W30.Amused.Made a few posts on team-bhp and was confirmed that it is not the right oil for my car.

Jan 17,2012 -
11.15 AM - Call the Service Advisor and told him the case.He said the oil is very well suited and nothing to worry about.I said no and i will complain to Maruti.He said Ok.

1.30 PM - Call the Maruti Helpline.They told me to call the Regional Office.I call the regional office and registered my complaint,was assured off a solution promptly.Simultaneously registered the complaint online on the Maruti Website.

2.00 PM - Get a callback from the SA.Sir there was a mistake in the billing and the oil filled is the right grade ("He wasn't knowledgeable of the grade").I said no arguments and i want an oil change.He said ok you can come.

3.00 PM - I was on my way & get a call again.Sir,Are you coming? .I said Yes

3.30 PM - Reached the workshop.Went to the oil room and 20W40 was taken out from the Shell SAE 20W40 barrel in front of my eyes.Was then filled in my car after draining the 5W30.I could see that everyone has received a scolding from Maruti.It was visible on their face and the way they were talking.

4.15 PM - I filled a satisfaction form.Was given a gate pass and left.

So its official - 5W30 is not the right oil(or should i say MSIL specified) for F10 Engines as per MSIL as well, otherwise they wouldn't have changed it in the first case.

All thanks to team-bhp. I never thought that i would recognize the grade of engine oil mentioned in my bill.

Great Work Maruti
Cheers for bhpians who guided me!!
Mods: Apologies if this is the wrong thread to post this.

Last edited by k2max6 : 17th January 2012 at 17:46.
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Old 17th January 2012, 18:32   #3273
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Congrats mate, & it was a prompt response from Maruti's end.

It was the right thing to have gotten the oil changed, because as per my understanding, there would always be some metal to metal contact or some wear & tear of the engine. Had it not been there, there was no reason for us to ever change any parts in our car engines & this is something that I have requested "khoj" to explain in case I am faltering.

And the thin oil (w.r.t F10D) would have simply accelerated this process.

Drive safe. And just to confirm, was this Apra's workshop?

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Got the oil changed !
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Old 17th January 2012, 19:00   #3274
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
Congrats mate, & it was a prompt response from Maruti's end.

It was the right thing to have gotten the oil changed, because as per my understanding, there would always be some metal to metal contact or some wear & tear of the engine. Had it not been there, there was no reason for us to ever change any parts in our car engines & this is something that I have requested "khoj" to explain in case I am faltering.

And the thin oil (w.r.t F10D) would have simply accelerated this process.

Drive safe. And just to confirm, was this Apra's workshop?
Nope. It was Rohan Motors,it recently opened near my place,i thought i should try.Past services have always been from Apra and the future will be as well.
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Old 17th January 2012, 21:54   #3275
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Even before you made the request I had posted regarding my own car running on 0W40 since the last 10K kms, see my post below. Now per your understanding the 0W which is thinner than the 5W oil should have ruined my car's engine and yet my car runs fine with no issues whatsoever as do thousands of others. Apart from the above yet another car in our household runs on Shell Helix Ultra 5W40. This car has a 1.6L engine where in the lower half is a Cast Iron block and the head is Aluminum. This vehicle has run close to 40K kms and again no issues per se. There is nothing more left to be said on the issue.

As for the need for changing engine parts etc. Of the total car users what percentage end up replacing their block's innards and how many do that 'cause of genuine reasons and not based on coloured advice from the mechanics/service centres etc. Even amongst those who have a genuine failure at hands the reason for the engine/it's parts failing is not the use of wrong oil but either insufficient oil, insufficient coolant, failing to change oil well beyond it's usable life and even manufacturing defects in the engines parts.


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If it helps you in any which way. My 2008 Swift zxi has been running on Mobil1 0W40 and the odometer reading is approximately 19K kms as of date. The oil was filled at My Car, a MASS in Poona with the odometer at 11000 odd kilometers and there have been no issues since. Would have posted this last night itself but wanted to recheck the grade of the oil. This is definitely an old series engine and my car seems to be happy with this diet.
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Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
Congrats mate, & it was a prompt response from Maruti's end.

It was the right thing to have gotten the oil changed, because as per my understanding, there would always be some metal to metal contact or some wear & tear of the engine. Had it not been there, there was no reason for us to ever change any parts in our car engines & this is something that I have requested "khoj" to explain in case I am faltering.


Repeating an incorrect statement over and over again will not make it right. I do not expect anyone to accept my posts 100% but then at the same time one should refrain from posting statements which are not correct in any which way.

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Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
And the thin oil (w.r.t F10D) would have simply accelerated this process.


All is well that ends well.

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Originally Posted by k2max6 View Post
Got the oil changed !
Let me put the entire case in this post.

Last edited by khoj : 17th January 2012 at 21:56.
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Old 18th January 2012, 00:26   #3276
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Now per your understanding the 0W which is thinner than the 5W oil should have ruined my car's engine and yet my car runs fine with no issues whatsoever as do thousands of others. Apart from the above yet another car in our household runs on Shell Helix Ultra 5W40.
I suggest you read the posts again because your understanding about my understanding is not correct, not even one bit. Assuming you understand the ratings, I have mentioned a grade 30 oil at any place & I have never mentioned that in a 5W30 oil, it is the 5W that would/could cause problems in k2max6's Wagon R or F10D in ambient temperatures above 10 degree centigrade. I fail to understand why you are assuming things.

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Even amongst those who have a genuine failure at hands the reason for the engine/it's parts failing is not the use of wrong oil but either insufficient oil, insufficient coolant, failing to change oil well beyond it's usable life and even manufacturing defects in the engines parts.
What are you suggesting, that it's alright to use a wrong oil (w.r.t specifications) just because nobody in your knowledge has ever had to replace parts or see an engine failure due to wrong oil?

Sir, I don't base my decisions of choosing an oil by looking at the number of people who have had or haven't had failures with their car engines. I wouldn't want to wait for someone to report a failure with a particular grade of oil before deciding whether or not it's good for my car. A correct specification oil is the best bet & I will stick to that.

As for replacing parts, I am not sure what constitutes your definition of "block's innards", but then there are people who may to have to change something if the car is kept for long. And as it is, there is always a service life associated with a component. Depending on the quality or operating conditions or 'n' other factors, the component may exceed the service life but then wear & tear does happen (which may be accelerated with the use of wrong fluids) & I sincerely hope you agree to that. Why don't you otherwise go ahead & put in just any oil? You also stick to the specified grade for your car, & not just any thing. If not, then by all means please go ahead & fill the lighter grade oil in your car engine, for all I care.

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Originally Posted by khoj View Post
Repeating an incorrect statement over and over again will not make it right. I do not expect anyone to accept my posts 100% but then at the same time one should refrain from posting statements which are not correct in any which way.
I still don't understand which part of my statements you find incorrect, because all I have had to tell you is to read my posts carefully before responding. So, with all due respect, please do not mark some comment incorrect without reading thoroughly & understanding what it means.

Please forgive me if my language wasn't lucid enough for you. With that, I rest my case & hope we can move on from this discussion.

Last edited by blackfire_9 : 18th January 2012 at 00:35.
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Old 18th January 2012, 00:32   #3277
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Language, lucid or otherwise alone does not necessarily translate in to command over the subject. Enough said.

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Please forgive me if my language wasn't lucid enough for you. With that, I rest my case & hope we can move on from this discussion.
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Old 18th January 2012, 00:44   #3278
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Language, lucid or otherwise alone does not necessarily translate in to command over the subject. Enough said.
You fail to understand my posts & you make such remarks on the forum. I am not commanding on the subject, just sharing what I know. Unless you actually read what I have written, I cannot be held responsible. Tell me a fault & I am willing to understand, but you keep mentioning things I haven't said anywhere & call me incorrect. You mentioned something about on off welds & I didn't know about it & I asked. But you didn't talk about that, rather came out with your own assumptions of my understanding.

So, please refrain from making such comments & try to make sure that you read things properly & through my posts, I have tried to bring this to your attention.

@k2max6: I forgot to ask, by any chance, do you remember the brand which Rohan Motors used for the 20W40 oil?

Last edited by blackfire_9 : 18th January 2012 at 00:48.
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Old 18th January 2012, 17:34   #3279
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Originally Posted by blackfire_9

@k2max6: I forgot to ask, by any chance, do you remember the brand which Rohan Motors used for the 20W40 oil?
Shell SAE 20W40 was written on the barrel and 5W30 was Shell HX5.
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Old 18th January 2012, 20:56   #3280
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by k2max6 View Post
Shell SAE 20W40 was written on the barrel and 5W30 was Shell HX5.
Shell HX-5 is 15W40 (mineral). That is what I regularly use for my Alto. Helix HX-7 is 10W40 (semi-synth). Helix HX-3 is 20W50, mineral. And finally Helix Ultra is 5W40 (Synth).

To my knowledge there is no other Shell Helix lube with 5W30, unless it is specifically formulated for Maruti and labelled simply as "MGO", without the Helix name.
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Old 18th January 2012, 21:39   #3281
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Shell HX-5 is 15W40 (mineral). That is what I regularly use for my Alto. Helix HX-7 is 10W40 (semi-synth). Helix HX-3 is 20W50, mineral. And finally Helix Ultra is 5W40 (Synth).

To my knowledge there is no other Shell Helix lube with 5W30, unless it is specifically formulated for Maruti and labelled simply as "MGO", without the Helix name.
I am sure it was 5W30 Shell HX-5. I even asked if HX-5 was available in 20W40,the SA said "No".
Each one of them had big MGO stickers with barcodes on them.
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Old 18th January 2012, 23:33   #3282
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Shell Helix HX-5 is available in 5W30 as well & its called HX-5 AZ. It's Maruti certified.

This is the link : Shell Helix HX5 AZ | India

Hope that clarifies.

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
Shell HX-5 is 15W40 (mineral). That is what I regularly use for my Alto. Helix HX-7 is 10W40 (semi-synth). Helix HX-3 is 20W50, mineral. And finally Helix Ultra is 5W40 (Synth).

To my knowledge there is no other Shell Helix lube with 5W30, unless it is specifically formulated for Maruti and labelled simply as "MGO", without the Helix name.
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Originally Posted by k2max6 View Post
I am sure it was 5W30 Shell HX-5. I even asked if HX-5 was available in 20W40,the SA said "No".
Each one of them had big MGO stickers with barcodes on them.
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Old 18th January 2012, 23:39   #3283
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Originally Posted by blackfire_9
Shell Helix HX-5 is available in 5W30 as well & its called HX-5 AZ. It's Maruti certified.
You're right ,AZ was written as well. Your post made me recall my memory.
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Old 19th January 2012, 09:01   #3284
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Sorry to chip in again, xGO is no different from the regular oil except x gets a cut on it. Many years ago there was Shell oil (I do not remember the labels) in Red, Yellow and Black (synth) containers. The MGO was priced the same as the Yellow can. When I looked at the specs it was rated the same as the Red can (lower spec).
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Old 19th January 2012, 09:39   #3285
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

^^I agree. If one wants 20W40 from Shell, it is available only as MGO, even at Shell pumps and is rated as SF.
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