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Old 20th January 2012, 14:59   #3301
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I am sorry to say but I find it really difficult to buy your SA's version. How is this an internal communication if it concerns the cars of customers like you & me. 'Internal' means something which does not concern the customer, but here it does.

Anyhow, I just had a word with my SA & the GM of the workshop where we have been taking our cars since the past 2 decades. They have not received any such communication from Maruti, the 30 grade oil is strictly used for K-series engines. However, I have often seen the other SAs at this workshop trying to take a customer for a ride by suggesting the 30 grade oil that they have in stock, claiming that it's semi-synthetic/synthetic & is better for the engine.

So, I would like to believe that Maruti has not issued any such statement. Moreover, like 'sgiitk' mentioned, if Maruti earlier recommended using a 40 grade oil then there is no reason for them to suddenly recommend the 30 grade oil, because all the parameters are still the same.

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
^^ I got a call from MSM a few minutes back. I was informed as per policy any internal communication can't be shared with the customers! They are using 5W30 for all FI cars as per instructions and placing orders only for this new MGO. They do keep a little stock of the 20W40 for carburetor cars that may come in for service, and this oil will gradually be phased out.

I asked them in that case, do the manuals of new 800 cc Altos and Omnis recommend 5W30 oil instead of 20W40! This stumped them and they said they do not know for sure, but are only following company instructions! They have offered to change the oil to 20W40 free of cost if I am still not satisfied!

What shall I do now? The car in question ('06 model Zen) is presently out of town. My inclination is to let the oil remain till the next service and then switch to Helix HX-5, as I feel it will not be that serious to justify an immediate change. Any suggestions, guys?
Just one thing that I can say for the improved mileage, it's winters & the lower ambient temperature plays a role, I would believe. Over the past few weeks, I have had to travel either early in the mornings or late at nights & I have managed to draw about 19 kmpl within city, which is about 2 kmpl more than what I would normally get in the city & in winters.

Secondly, as 'KSM-Vtec' has mentioned, maybe you are driving longer with fewer stops.

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Originally Posted by asitkde View Post
In my Getz Prime, in Nov 2010 (at that time less than 3 years old), I put in a synthetic oil (Petronas 0W40) for the first time. I have written about my experience that time in this thread. The drive became a lot smoother, and there was just a bit of improvement in the fuel economy. I usually get between 9 and 10 kmpl (with full AC) for short drives in the city. After the oil change, there might have been 0.5 kmpl improvement at best.

Now last November (in 2011), I again had to go in for a oil and filter change. This time the Petronas was not available. Instead, Castrol Edge 5W40 was put in. The drive remained as smooth as before. However, there is a significant improvement in fuel economy. I am now getting consistently 12 kmpl or slightly above for the last several tank fulls. Of course because of the colder weather now, the AC is mostly off (not completely off though), but I have observed in the past that there is usually a difference of 1 kmpl between AC on and off. The improvement I am experiencing now is definitely well beyond that.

What do you guys think this improvement is due to: Because of the change in the brand of oil? Or, because of the change in the grade? Or, something else. I do not think my driving style has changed all of a sudden. However, I am driving a bit more, and for a bit more distances at a time than before (because in the last few months I am making several trips in a week to our new apartment where currently some work is going on).
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Old 20th January 2012, 15:10   #3302
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

First of all, there is definitely a difference between mineral & synthetic engine oils. And I am assuming that there won't be much benefit trying to explain these differences to the respective SAs.

Secondly, I am not sure about what Maruti recommends for SX4 but at least for the older cars like the 800, Alto, Esteem or the 1.3 Swift, they do recommend an oil change in 6 months or 10K kms, whichever is earlier.
Is your car still under warranty? If no, don't worry, because 7K is not much even for a good quality mineral oil let alone a synthetic. However, if it is still under warranty, the workshop can try to tell you that you have voided the warranty because you did not get the oil changed as per the specified service interval. Beware, because I have heard so many stories about such things happening. Don't accept it, because you have put in an oil that costs as much as 4 times the normal (mineral) oil & is far superior. Maybe your workshop does not understand the difference but Maruti surely will, so don't accept if they start talking on these lines.

By the way, where did you get the oil changed the last time? As far as I know, MASS do not offer Mobil 1 fully synthetic engine oils, even as an option.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iMakk View Post
Need some advice guys. I moved to Mobil1 0W40 synthetic engine oil for my SX4 ZXi about 8 months back. Have driven the car about 7000 Kms since. What is the appropriate time to consider the next oil change? service advisors from Maruti say it should have been changed at 6 months since the company recommends either 6 months or 10K kms and they see no difference between mineral and synthetic oils!

Request to MODS: Please merge this post with the previous one, I saw iMakk's post later & forgot that I could have edited my previous post to address his query.

Last edited by blackfire_9 : 20th January 2012 at 15:15. Reason: Added a note for MODS
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Old 20th January 2012, 15:15   #3303
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Thanks! My car is under extended warranty right now in the 4th year, though it has done only 14,000 KMs. My only worry was with 2 months past the recommended 6 month interval for oil change and I was wondering if I should do that since I am using synthetic oil now, which I know lasts longer but you know how (well informed) SAs are :-)


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Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
First of all, there is definitely a difference between mineral & synthetic engine oils. And I am assuming that there won't be much benefit trying to explain these differences to the respective SAs.

Secondly, I am not sure about what Maruti recommends for SX4 but at least for the older cars like the 800, Alto, Esteem or the 1.3 Swift, they do recommend an oil change in 6 months or 10K kms, whichever is earlier.
Is your car still under warranty? If no, don't worry, because 7K is not much even for a good quality mineral oil let alone a synthetic. However, if it is still under warranty, the workshop can try to tell you that you have voided the warranty because you did not get the oil changed as per the specified service interval. Beware, because I have heard so many stories about such things happening. Don't accept it, because you have put in an oil that costs as much as 4 times the normal (mineral) oil & is far superior. Maybe your workshop does not understand the difference but Maruti surely will, so don't accept if they start talking on these lines.





Request to MODS: Please merge this post with the previous one, I saw iMakk's post later & forgot that I could have edited my previous post to address his query.
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Old 20th January 2012, 15:28   #3304
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
Secondly, I am not sure about what Maruti recommends for SX4 but at least for the older cars like the 800, Alto, Esteem or the 1.3 Swift, they do recommend an oil change in 6 months or 10K kms, whichever is earlier.
The recommended oil change interval even for the F10 series engines (with the 20W40 MGO) is during the first 1000 KM service, and thereafter every 10K KM/12 months.
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Old 20th January 2012, 15:32   #3305
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
Secondly, I am not sure about what Maruti recommends for SX4 but at least for the older cars like the 800, Alto, Esteem or the 1.3 Swift, they do recommend an oil change in 6 months or 10K kms, whichever is earlier.
Let me get a few facts out:

1. It was somewhere in the 1970's when API-SF came out. The Oil Multinationals gave a recommendation that once a year or 10,000miles was fine. I guess no fool will claim that his engines today are worse than 1970's engines.

2. Maruti stayed with 5,000/6 months since till a couple of years ago MGO from IOC was API-SC (yes unbelievable) as per the IOC website. Only now the oil PSUs are migrating to the current ratings which are API- SJ/SL/SM/SN. Not so long ago I saw an advt from an oil PSU stating now in API-SG!

Honda was talking of three months/5000km till not so far back. I questioned one of the SMs - are your engines made of cardboard? No reply of course. Even today the front desk ladies will call you and try to persuade you to bring the car in every three months

4. My policy is suffer the fools until warranty is over. I provide my own oil, noting on the service sheet 'Supplied m litres of xyz Oil SAE aWb, rated API S?'if there is any question. They will try and pressurise you but cannot refuse. After all there are margins at stake.

I was told by one franchise owner that the manufacturer (one of the biggies) says that if below a certain percentage of cars serviced (in the eighties!) do not use the cos. oil the dealer will be assumed to have used his own sourced oil, and billed for the companies cut!

Last edited by mobike008 : 23rd January 2012 at 11:10.
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Old 20th January 2012, 15:34   #3306
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Please advise on whether to go in for the Synthetic oil being pushed by the F.A.S.S. people.

They say that the service interval would remain same but Synthetic would be better for the engine, and Ford has started recommending synthetic for its cars.

I drive a fusion diesel and it has clocked 43000 kms.

What should I do?

Please advise.

Another question:

Ford Fusion/Fiesta have the same TDCi engine as in the Figo. Then why is service interval/oil change interval in Fusion/Fiesta recommended at 10,000 kms/6 months whichever is earlier, while for the Figo, the Company recommends 10,000 kms or 1 year?

Last edited by deepfusion : 20th January 2012 at 15:38.
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Old 20th January 2012, 15:45   #3307
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

It is indeed better to use synthetic oil. I have changed to synthetic in both my cars - SX4, when it had done 7K Kms and Santro, when it had done 1.2L Kms. The difference in moving to synthetic is not just in the immediate smoothness you experience but also that the smoothness lasts. However, you may decide whether you want to pick up oil on your own or from the dealership. Just some stats - I picked up oil from Maruti for my SX4 (had to since it was under warranty then) and they not only sold it at MRP but also levied stupid taxes on it under the garb of service. For my Santro, however, I picked up a 4 litre pack of Edge for Rs. 2050/-, the MRP of which was Rs. 4,900/-. The dealer had picked up some scheme with Castrol and was able to sell cheap :-)


Quote:
Originally Posted by deepfusion View Post
Please advise on whether to go in for the Synthetic oil being pushed by the F.A.S.S. people.

They say that the service interval would remain same but Synthetic would be better for the engine, and Ford has started recommending synthetic for its cars.

I drive a fusion diesel and it has clocked 43000 kms.

What should I do?

Please advise.

Another question:

Ford Fusion/Fiesta have the same TDCi engine as in the Figo. Then why is service interval/oil change interval in Fusion/Fiesta recommended at 10,000 kms/6 months whichever is earlier, while for the Figo, the Company recommends 10,000 kms or 1 year?
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Old 20th January 2012, 15:46   #3308
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

@deepfusion; you have hit the nail on the head. Only after some vendors went 10,000/12 months have the others also woken up.

From the VFM point of view a good semi-synth (or even mineral) makes more sense. Let me ask a simple question - despite all the abuse how many engines are you aware of which needed to be opened up before 150,000km due to wear and tear?

Last edited by sgiitk : 20th January 2012 at 15:48.
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Old 20th January 2012, 15:51   #3309
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
The recommended oil change interval even for the F10 series engines (with the 20W40 MGO) is during the first 1000 KM service, and thereafter every 10K KM/12 months.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Let me get a few facts out:

1. It was somewhere in the 1970's when API-SF came out. The Oil Multinationals gave a recommendation that once a year or 10,000miles was fine. I guess no fool will claim that his engines today are worse than 1970's engines.
I stand corrected, didn't proof-read my post, I thought I had written 1 year only

My sincere apologies!
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Old 20th January 2012, 15:53   #3310
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

@sgiitk, one question still remains unanswered though - how does the move to synthetic oil impact the oil change interval? Do we still change at 10K/12M or run longer with synthetic, either on KMs or on Months?
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Old 20th January 2012, 15:59   #3311
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepfusion View Post

Ford Fusion/Fiesta have the same TDCi engine as in the Figo. Then why is service interval/oil change interval in Fusion/Fiesta recommended at 10,000 kms/6 months whichever is earlier, while for the Figo, the Company recommends 10,000 kms or 1 year?
Quote:
Originally Posted by iMakk View Post
@sgiitk, one question still remains unanswered though - how does the move to synthetic oil impact the oil change interval? Do we still change at 10K/12M or run longer with synthetic, either on KMs or on Months?
Exactly my point. The same company, the same engine, the same mineral oil, two different cars, two different service intervals.
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Old 20th January 2012, 16:07   #3312
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

@BlackFire 9: Sorry - Forgot to respond to your query about Maruti not offering synthetic oil as an option. I called up Maruti owned service outlet at Naraina in Delhi and gathered specifications of the sythetic oil Maruti recommends for SX4. Since they would not offer it themselves, I then called up several Maruti authorised service outlets to find out if they offer synthetic oil change...and I did come across at least a couple that do (in Delhi). I finally got my car serviced and oil changed to synthetic at Magic Auto at Moti Nagar. In fact they had good stock of recommended synthetic oil - they poured out the quantity from a 200-litre drum in my presence :-). I dont remember who else had synthetic oil in store but I did come across a couple who did have it.

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By the way, where did you get the oil changed the last time? As far as I know, MASS do not offer Mobil 1 fully synthetic engine oils, even as an option.
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Old 20th January 2012, 16:34   #3313
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by iMakk View Post
@sgiitk, one question still remains unanswered though - how does the move to synthetic oil impact the oil change interval? Do we still change at 10K/12M or run longer with synthetic, either on KMs or on Months?
It does not. The oil must still be changed at the 10K Km/12 month interval. So it makes sense to use synth if you will definitely complete this distance in one year. I do just about 5K a year, so I stick to Helix HX-5.
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Old 21st January 2012, 10:12   #3314
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

@imakk; Originally Synth was marketed on the basis of extended interval (20k/30k/50k miles were all talked about) but this hype hasnow subsided. I will say once a year (maybe you can stretch it a bit), and more mileage. If you drive that much then stretching to 15000/20000 should be Ok. Synthetic originated from the aircraft industry (props) and was then moved to the auto industry.
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Old 22nd January 2012, 02:26   #3315
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

MASS does offer that oil and the 4 liter packs come with MGO stamped on them. This oil was poured in to my Swift's block by 'My Car' a MASS located at Wakad in Poona.

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As far as I know, MASS do not offer Mobil 1 fully synthetic engine oils, even as an option.
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