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Old 31st July 2012, 17:00   #3556
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Guys i'm using Castrol magnatec the engine feels smoother and car doesn't rev for all that long during cold starts. Now since the oil change interval is coming i wanted to know the prices for a fully synthetic oil like mobile1 or helix ?
I bought helix a few weeks back for a change, the street price in Mumbai for a 4 litre can is Rs.3700/-
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Old 31st July 2012, 18:13   #3557
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I think I get your point, which is to not touch something when there's no need & I respect that. It's just that I feel a 6 monthly interval is what's best & also because not so long ago, I recall quite a few manufacturers specifying that & have now changed to 1 year intervals without any other parameters changing. This gives the impression of a marketing gimmick rather than a serious thought on the part of their R&D division.

But to each, their own! And yes, lets rest this here.

Do post up the source details on the taxis when you find them.

Drive safe.

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I'm afraid you have completely missed the point. Lets not agree on anything, but lets agree on not debating this further. I feel there is sufficient material already mentioned and hinted at for others concerned to form their own conclusion.

About the taxis, it isn't my pet theory - I had learnt the same from a reliable source in the past. Unfortunately, I am unable to recall the source right now. If I recall, I will try and mention it later. Meanwhile, or even if I don't, I imagine people can form their own opinion with the points already mentioned, if they are aware of the basics of lube science (cold starts, sludge, blow by and the like).

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Old 31st July 2012, 18:29   #3558
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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I feel synthetic oil is best for car engines. Especially if its a car you want to keep for long. I use synthetic oil only in my good old steed - my Lancer 2001 glxi, its done 137,000 + kms. Since i moved to synthetic oil the car runs noticeably smoother ( maybe even slightly quicker ). If your car is decently maintained, ideally when you move to synthetic also try & add a k&n filter. Its the best/easiest thing you can do to prolong engine life, add power & increase efficiency.
Dude, once again K&N is a suspect product that will more likely reduce the life of your engine.

As for synthetics, nobody can doubt their superiority. Its the cost-benefit and practicality that is in question. For most users the actual cost benefits will be negative. Cars that need synth as a requirement are of course excluded from these considerations.

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Old 31st July 2012, 21:23   #3559
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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It's just that I feel a 6 monthly interval is what's best & also because not so long ago, I recall quite a few manufacturers specifying that & have now changed to 1 year intervals without any other parameters changing.
The one year / 10,000KM frequency started with the advent of API-SF grade oils.
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Old 1st August 2012, 09:28   #3560
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Once again K&N is a suspect product that will more likely reduce the life of your engine.

As for synthetics, nobody can doubt their superiority. Its the cost-benefit and practicality that is in question. For most users the actual cost benefits will be negative. Cars that need synth as a requirement are of course excluded from these considerations.
I had posted a pdf ages ago (again attached) with extensive tests of various filters, which exposed K&N badly. I am not sure whether they have improved since.

I fully agree with the VFM of synths is not there. In fact most engines which have synth specified also have a semi-synth alternative often with reduced change intervals. Even here the latter is better VFM. Remember engines running on any half decent oil to specs will last well over 200,000km. How many of us keep our cars that long?
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File Type: pdf Filters.pdf (975.5 KB, 467 views)
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Old 1st August 2012, 20:14   #3561
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I don't think there is any link between the API service classification & the drain intervals of an engine oil, especially since it can vary based on the operating conditions. But please do direct me towards the source for this information in case I am wrong.

Also, Maruti used to recommended an API SG 20W40 oil for my Alto (2004) with a drain interval of 6 months or 10K kms, whichever comes earlier (a post made by a fellow BHPian swarnawa a few pages back, also confirms the drain interval of 6 months). The same is the case with our Swift (1.3 petrol; 2009). So, I doubt that the move to 1 year drain intervals was done with the advent of API SF oils since they came out way back in the late 80s or early 90s, I believe.

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The one year / 10,000KM frequency started with the advent of API-SF grade oils.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 01:10   #3562
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
I had posted a pdf ages ago (again attached) with extensive tests of various filters, which exposed K&N badly. I am not sure whether they have improved since.

I fully agree with the VFM of synths is not there. In fact most engines which have synth specified also have a semi-synth alternative often with reduced change intervals. Even here the latter is better VFM. Remember engines running on any half decent oil to specs will last well over 200,000km. How many of us keep our cars that long?
Thanks will looking into that file. However, are you sure all Indian car engines last 200,000 km without needing to be opened? Which car engines have you actually seen last that long or beyond? Yes, I know some models of Maruti Suzuki have lasted that long... but I'v also heard that Hyundai engines for eg. don't last quite that long. Of course there are so many variable relating to maintainence, but we are talking about cars that are generally maintained according as they should be.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 03:02   #3563
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Particularly about Hyundai, let me quote an example of the Accent, a car that in both its petrol & diesel avatars has been said to need an overhaul pretty early in its life-time.

However, we have had both the versions in my family & I can vouch that they had been as reliable as any other car. The petrol Accent was sold off last year with an actual 3.2 lacs on the odo while the CRDi had been sold a couple of years back with about 1.8 lacs on the odo. Please note that both cars were old but they still ran great.

So, I seem to agree with "sgiitk" in thinking that any engine can last about 200000 kms if maintained decently using a decent mineral spec oil, unless ofcourse, there was a design flaw in the engine or if the quality of material used to build the components of the engine was not up to the mark.

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However, are you sure all Indian car engines last 200,000 km without needing to be opened? Which car engines have you actually seen last that long or beyond? Yes, I know some models of Maruti Suzuki have lasted that long... but I'v also heard that Hyundai engines for eg. don't last quite that long. Of course there are so many variable relating to maintainence, but we are talking about cars that are generally maintained according as they should be.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 09:24   #3564
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
I don't think there is any link between the API service classification & the drain intervals of an engine oil, especially since it can vary based on the operating conditions. But please do direct me towards the source for this information in case I am wrong.

.....So, I doubt that the move to 1 year drain intervals was done with the advent of API SF oils since they came out way back in the late 80s or early 90s, I believe.
The oilcos went to 10,000 miles / 12 months with API-SF which as you say is almost prehistoric. But till about 2 years ago IoC's MGO was API-SC! Today API allows only SJ and higher, and all other grades are stated as Obsolete. Just see the number of SG oils available on the India market - shocking and pathetic.

I do not think many car makers recommend one year (after all the dealers have to be kept in business). I still get a call from Honda every three months (as was the case with Hyundai) for service which I politely decline. Honda is now on 12 months for Synth and 6 months for others. I have no problems with the SA or SM with this.

This is why I always say that switch to once a year / 10,000 only after the warranty is over.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 11:06   #3565
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Thanks for confirming that!

I was not aware of this since wherever I had read about the API classifications, I never found any link between them & the drain intervals of an engine oil. In fact, just checked up again yesterday (after Gansan's post) on the API website & couldn't find any such information.

I guess this information is not publicized or stated as a fact to avoid backlash since as we all know, even the best oils can undergo breakdown pretty quickly in some condition while they stay in good shape in another.


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The oilcos went to 10,000 miles / 12 months with API-SF which as you say is almost prehistoric. But till about 2 years ago IoC's MGO was API-SC! Today API allows only SJ and higher, and all other grades are stated as Obsolete. Just see the number of SG oils available on the India market - shocking and pathetic.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 11:46   #3566
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I have a Hyundai i20 Asta Petrol which has 24000 Km on the odometer and is about 3 years old. I am contemplating switching to synthetic oil. Should i Do it? What brand and specs are recommended?

I am taking it for a service soon. So Any help in this regards highly appreciated
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Old 2nd August 2012, 11:53   #3567
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I saw this information since I happened to be in the UK at that time. Only recently some vendors (I think Tata and Toyota amongst them) have gone to the one year schedule. I guess market forces will force others to follow suite. Just consider this both Tata and Maruti (and many others) are using the same Multijet diesel, so the service intervals should be about the same.

Also, the oil change interval will be decided by both the oil and the quality of the engine. If I recall correctly the firs vendor to endorse the 10,000 mile interval was Audi.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 15:00   #3568
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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I have a Hyundai i20 Asta Petrol which has 24000 Km on the odometer and is about 3 years old. I am contemplating switching to synthetic oil. Should i Do it? What brand and specs are recommended?

I am taking it for a service soon. So Any help in this regards highly appreciated
Yes, you can switch to a synthetic engine oil & as far as the oil specs are concerned, I would suggest checking in your manual first. But I think any synthetic should be alright if you get either 0W40 (only in Mobil-1) or 5W40.

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Originally Posted by sgiitk
I saw this information since I happened to be in the UK at that time. Only recently some vendors (I think Tata and Toyota amongst them) have gone to the one year schedule. I guess market forces will force others to follow suite. Just consider this both Tata and Maruti (and many others) are using the same Multijet diesel, so the service intervals should be about the same.

Also, the oil change interval will be decided by both the oil and the quality of the engine. If I recall correctly the firs vendor to endorse the 10,000 mile interval was Audi.
I thought the API was located in US; did you mean US instead of the UK?

Anyhow, I can confirm that Maruti has switched to 1 year intervals on their new cars & I can say with confidence since a friend recently bought one. And this is the case with both, the diesels as well as their K-series motors.
Also, Ford is another manufacturer who has done the same. Like you said, I am sure that others who haven't yet done this would also follow suit.

I agree that the drain intervals are decided by both the oil quality as well as the engine quality (or, the operating environment); this is precisely what I had said & it was the main reason why I was skeptical about any sort of a direct relationship between the API service classification & the drain intervals, since there are other parameters that have a significant affect.

By the way, which oil are you using for your Santro these days?

Drive safe.

Last edited by blackfire_9 : 2nd August 2012 at 15:12.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 15:44   #3569
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Anyhow, I can confirm that Maruti has switched to 1 year intervals on their new cars & I can say with confidence since a friend recently bought one.
Not just new cars. Mine is a 2009 Alto and for that also the drain interval is one year / 10k km; after the very first oil change is done at the 30 day mark during first service, that is.

For the new K series cars also it is one year / 10K km ; the difference is, the very first service (therefore oil change itself) is at this mark, unlike mine.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 15:50   #3570
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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I thought the API was located in US; did you mean US instead of the UK?

Anyhow, I can confirm that Maruti has switched to 1 year intervals on their new cars & I can say with confidence since a friend recently bought one. And this is the case with both, the diesels as well as their K-series motors.
Also, Ford is another manufacturer who has done the same. Like you said, I am sure that others who haven't yet done this would also follow suit.
Yes, API are in the US but I was in the UK!
Good that Maruti have also gone to one year. Many dealerships do not know / choose to know. I saw a case here where a members father was scared into sending his City in after three months, even though the interval had been revised. The chap on his return took up the matter with Honda corporate and got a voucher for the amount spent on the three month service.

Let me add that for the past 20+ years, all my cars have been on an annual service schedule (I only do at most 8k per annum on each of my cars) after the warranty was over. I have used mineral / semi- anf full synths with no sweat. One chap who bought my Esteem with 63k on the clock (6-1/2 years, as I had only one car at that time). He clocked it to over 4.25L and did not have to open the engine. That should lay a lot of doubts to rest. My Santro has done 56k in 7 years and is on an annual schedule (Mineral / semi-) for the past five years.
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