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Old 13th November 2012, 09:01   #3616
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

This thread has already more than 240 pages. Haven't read them all, so this might have been mentioned by somebody else already.

Changing your oil filter is actually more important than your changing your oil.
Modern oils, even cheap non synthetic ones, tend to be pretty good. If you want to do something every 5000 kilometers I suggest change the filter. And at 10000 kilometer change both.

Never use synthetic, unless recommended by the manufacturer. You can run into problems, especially on older cars. Now, not to be too controversial, and maybe its different in India. But there is very little empirical evidence that using synthetic oil really gives you the edge over non/semi synthetic oil.

Obviously, when an engine has been designed for synthetic, you have to use it. You're dead stuck.

Just check out the threads on this forum, or any other car forum anywhere in the world. How many threads do you come across of members having to overhaul an engine, because of poor lubrication? There are thousands and thousand of engine repair topics. Very few due to oil quality.

There are plenty of other factors that have a much more pronounced impact on engine life than oil. For instance, the temperature of the cooling water. Having your thermostat of by 5o C has a real impact on the wear and tear of the cylinder liners and piston rings.

Lots of short drives where the engine doesn't reach proper operating temperature, same thing. Starting the engine and leaving it to idle to warm up, same thing. Real wear and tear, no matter what oil you put in.

Here in India with lots of dust, changing/cleaning your air filter every few thousand kilometer is likely to have much more impact on your engine life than whatever expensive oil you put in. No matter how often you change your oil.

In a former life I was an engineer in the merchant navy and
I was involved in a year and half test program on a fleet of
ocean going tugs and supply vessels. This involved testing
the effect of different lubrication oils on the wear and
tear on medium speed diesel engines. So a bit different from
our petrol engines, but I still think that most of the
results are pretty generic.

We found:
Oil filtering/cleaning is much more relevant than changing
the oil. I.e. changing your filters more often than you
change the filter is probably a good thing to do.

We could not detect any noticeable difference of the most
expensive A-brand lub oils and the dirt cheap B-brand oil.
Our research ended in the A-brand selling us their lub oil
at B-brand prices!

Running engines with too low cool water temperature had a
very noticeable and very significant effect on the wear/tear
of the engine.

Same goes for air filters. Very underestimated what it does
on engine wear. (and performance for that matter!)

Admittedly, every car forum has a very, very long thread on oil. But, again, just change the oil filter more often (use a good one!), check proper operation of your thermostat. Clean your air filter regularly. And be kind to your engine when it's still cold. Start, and drive away without revving the engine to much until the engine is at its nominal operating temperature.

By the way, on nearly all cars the temperature that gets measured is the cooling water, not the oil. So even though the temperature gauge might show the temperature in the normal operating range, the oil temperature might not be there yet. So always allow a few minutes more. Especially when the ambient temperature is low. On cars where you have a real oil pressure gauge, the actual reading is often an indication of oil temperature as well. Only at the proper oil temperature will you get the normal oil pressure readings.

Jeroen
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Old 17th November 2012, 15:51   #3617
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
changing your filters more often than you
change the filter is probably a good thing to do.
Not to nitpick, but it is an interesting point you make. I assume you meant changing filters more often than you change the 'oil' is a good thing to do.

I have no tools but mere empirical observations to go with when I did an engine oil change recently (ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil). I switched from mineral to synthetic. The only perceptible change seems to be a peppier engine...however, I am not sure it can be attributed entirely to the oil change alone, but perhaps to the regular servicing that my Innova underwent. There could be other more 'scientific views' around here that I am yet to discover.
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Old 28th November 2012, 23:51   #3618
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by dhuli View Post
Not to nitpick, but it is an interesting point you make. I assume you meant changing filters more often than you change the 'oil' is a good thing to do.

I have no tools but mere empirical observations to go with when I did an engine oil change recently (ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil). I switched from mineral to synthetic. The only perceptible change seems to be a peppier engine...however, I am not sure it can be attributed entirely to the oil change alone, but perhaps to the regular servicing that my Innova underwent. There could be other more 'scientific views' around here that I am yet to discover.
I shifted to synthetic oil shortly after the running in was over in my 2008 Altis.

While I am a person who advocates mineral, unless synth is specifically recommended for the engine, using synthetic has improved the engine's throttle response and smoothness. It's had a very minor +ve change on fuel consumption.

Is it worth it? Honestly no, stick to mineral and change it regularly and you will probably receive nearly the same benefits as synthetic. All at a fraction of the price of a synth refill. If money is no object then use synthetic. Toyota has now shifted to 5w-30 mineral for all its vehicles.

I've been using Shell Helix Ultra 5w-40 - the same viscosity and API grade as the Toyota synthetic. The car was recently serviced this month and SHU was poured into the engine for the 4th time. May try Mobil 0W-40 next year.
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Old 29th November 2012, 07:43   #3619
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Is it worth it? Honestly no, stick to mineral and change it regularly and you will probably receive nearly the same benefits as synthetic.
Nice to know. There is the other claim of prolonging 'life' of engine, which my commonsense says is likely a combination of factors and not just predominantly a synthetic oil change. The other is about cold starting. In fact I wondered about this here (18 Passes, 15 lakes and 2 breakdowns : Ladakh and Lahaul call again) in this really cool thread from Tanveer (tsk1979)
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Old 29th November 2012, 16:56   #3620
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I went to buy Mobil Delvac 1 5W40 today.
The dealer offered me Mobil Super,recommended by Maruti 5W40 Fully Synthetic oil for diesel engines,stating this is similar,i am just wondering if anyone else came across this?.
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Old 29th November 2012, 20:45   #3621
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

They should be similar as far as the base stocks are concerned (both are Group III), however, there could be differences in the additive package. The 'Super' seems to have been formulated for cars while the Delvac is more of a "truck" oil.

Given an option, I would personally stick to something that has been formulated for cars. One good reason is that most PCMOs have friction modifiers, which is something that most HDEOs either lack or have negligible amounts.

Drive safe.

PS: What is the price you are getting & for how much quantity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay4587 View Post
I went to buy Mobil Delvac 1 5W40 today.
The dealer offered me Mobil Super,recommended by Maruti 5W40 Fully Synthetic oil for diesel engines,stating this is similar,i am just wondering if anyone else came across this?.

Last edited by blackfire_9 : 29th November 2012 at 20:47.
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Old 29th November 2012, 20:54   #3622
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
They should be similar as far as the base stocks are concerned (both are Group III), however, there could be differences in the additive package. The 'Super' seems to have been formulated for cars while the Delvac is more of a "truck" oil.

Given an option, I would personally stick to something that has been formulated for cars. One good reason is that most PCMOs have friction modifiers, which is something that most HDEOs either lack or have negligible amounts.

Drive safe.

PS: What is the price you are getting & for how much quantity?
Now,thats an amazing insight into it
Thanks a Lot Prakhar
I am getting it at 750\L
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Old 8th December 2012, 12:39   #3623
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Hi all,
Inputs needed.
My Santro just finished 120000km on the ODO.
Engine oil is on a low. I want it to be changed this weekend.

Should I opt for synthetic oil for this 10yr old car or semisynthetic or stick to what the company is filling.

Btw What exactly does Hyundai fill in - brand, viscosity and quantity?
Will they change the oil I buy from outside I give them?

I am more inclined with semi synthetic and don't want to spend a lot on it. Should I opt for Shell? How much does it cost?
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Old 8th December 2012, 13:07   #3624
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Visaster View Post
Inputs needed. My Santro just finished 120000km on the ODO. Engine oil is on a low. I want it to be changed this weekend.
Since you car has done over a lakh KMs on mineral I would suggest sticking to mineral or semi synthetic.

Shell has HX5 in mineral (15-40 API SL) and HX7 semi synthetic (10W-40 API SN).

Normally ASCs in India use mineral of 10w-30, 5w-30 or 15w-40 grades depending on car mfr. Synthetic is only used in some cars mainly D1 cars and higher.

Also, please change oil before the level goes low. Low level is not an indicator of a required oil change. The oil change may be due way before that. You need to check using the dip stick at regular intervals. Always change oil at a kms/time interval, for e.g. 10K kms or 12 months which ever is earlier. Check your owners manual for intervals and recommended grades.

Last edited by R2D2 : 8th December 2012 at 13:08.
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Old 8th December 2012, 16:31   #3625
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
They should be similar as far as the base stocks are concerned (both are Group III), however, there could be differences in the additive package. The 'Super' seems to have been formulated for cars while the Delvac is more of a "truck" oil.

Given an option, I would personally stick to something that has been formulated for cars. One good reason is that most PCMOs have friction modifiers, which is something that most HDEOs either lack or have negligible amounts.

Drive safe.

PS: What is the price you are getting & for how much quantity?
Finally stuck to Delvac1 only was able to source it at 700\L
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Old 8th December 2012, 20:13   #3626
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

That's a decent price. Do post your observations & feedback on the oil, maybe after a few thousand kilometers. I specifically mentioned "after a few thousand kilometers" because at the oil change, any oil would feel great.

Drive safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay4587 View Post
Finally stuck to Delvac1 only was able to source it at 700\L
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Old 9th December 2012, 10:31   #3627
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

My few cents :
1. Synthetic oils are designed to provide additional protection, but we are not racing every time at max rpm. So you take your call.

2. If you run more then synthetic does not break down easily that prolongs the change interval, so it helps. To elaborate if you use synthetic, then you can extend your oil change intervals up to 20K(specific cases).

3. As rightly pointed out by jeroen, unless you have clean oil filter and clean air filter, in Indian conditions with the dust, just changing mineral oil every 5K will not help.

4. If your running more then you can avoid frequent oil changes with synthetic.

5. Mineral oil is as good if you meticulously change oil/filter every 5K. So, its your call, you have fresh oil every 5k, instead of same oil for 15K, Your call !!

6. Finally, cost to be considered. If you use mineral @1K changing every 5K kms Vs 4K every 15K then that involves 1K additional over mineral. If you change oil after 20K then they even out. Now the point here with synthetic you continue with same oil filter for about 20K.
So is it still better ?? So the argument / dilemma continues ( a la coffee bite)

Cheers
MKP

Last edited by mkpiyengar : 9th December 2012 at 10:32. Reason: corrected spelling mistake
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Old 9th December 2012, 14:42   #3628
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Visaster View Post
Hi all,
Inputs needed.
My Santro just finished 120000km on the ODO.
Engine oil is on a low. I want it to be changed this weekend.

Should I opt for synthetic oil for this 10yr old car or semisynthetic or stick to what the company is filling.

Btw What exactly does Hyundai fill in - brand, viscosity and quantity?
Will they change the oil I buy from outside I give them?

I am more inclined with semi synthetic and don't want to spend a lot on it. Should I opt for Shell? How much does it cost?
Hi Visaster,
I would suggest you go for mineral oil, primarily based on 2 factors:
1. Age of car since it is 2002 and the original specs would specify 10W40 or similar rating of mineral oil use factory specs.
2. If you've used mineral oil for so long and your running is less then stick to it.
3. If you are fine with spending more then go for synthetic of same grade. Under no case should you change grade or mix oils. Since you mentioned about not spending a lot go safely for mineral.

I changed oil in my Fiat Siena 2002 1.6 16v to Mobil Delvac MX 15W40 which was highly recommended in FIAT forum as well as Mobil guys. I needed 4lts only and not std 5L pack.
Alternately, you could use Mobil Delvac Super 1300/1400 based on availiblity, but Delvac MX is best.
Cost of Delvac MX is MRP: Rs.372/lit whereas the Delvac 1300/1400 is around Rs.1400 for 5 lits. Check the availabilities at your place and how much you require.

Note; Mobil Delvac MX is primarily sold as Diesel oil, but you can safely use on gasoline (petrol) engines too..
Ref: http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...MX_15W-40.aspx

Hope it helps
Cheers
MKP
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Old 11th December 2012, 14:11   #3629
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Need help to procure Mobil 1 full syn oil in Delhi for my Swift.

Can someone help me where to get this and which grade to opt for along with the quantity of oil required. I am trying to get the oil changed first time out of MASS, car has been running on full syn for past 30K kms, no issues at all.
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Old 12th December 2012, 13:45   #3630
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Anyone has a clue which Oil Duster uses?
No mention of the same in manuals.

Someone mentioned it is mineral. Is it so? For only few early thousand kms or regularly?
In 11 days since I got car, I have already driven the car for 950kms. Does my driving demands synthetic? ( provided Duster comes with Mineral Oil )

Thanks,
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