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Old 14th December 2012, 14:40   #3646
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by mkpiyengar View Post
For the FIAT's it was Selenia till very recently, Castrol magnetec was never recommended for the Fiat's (Palio's. Siena, Petra), but this time i thought to go with Mobil as I was satisfied with Mobil-1.

Did not want to go for synthetic for the Siena 1.6 hence settled for Delvac.
Hi,

Yes, we used Fiat Selenia oil initially for the first 2 years, it is quite a basic oil if you ask me, does the job and keeps the warranty just like other OEM oils.

We shifted to Castrol in 2003/04 and the car was on Magnatec till mid 2011 till it was treated to HX5. And it made a big difference.

I don't think that Magnatec was a bad oil but given it is semi synth I was expecting much more. Also, there are lot of Magnatec fakes around. Another reason I avoid Castrol. I buy Shell oils directly from the distributor. Ditto for Mobil.

Last edited by R2D2 : 14th December 2012 at 14:43. Reason: typo
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Old 14th December 2012, 14:59   #3647
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Gansan, I'd be interested in knowing how it goes with HX7. May try that too in the Palio. Will have to wait for 6 months as I just purchase a can of HX5 for the car.
Sure, but my oil change is still some time away. Car has done only 3000KM after the last change with HX-5.
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Old 14th December 2012, 15:38   #3648
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
In my case I use Shell (Helix Ultra synthetic & HX5) in both my cars but willing to try out Mobil 1 at the next oil change. The reason is my car mfr does not specify 0w-40 as a recommended grade. 5w-50 is too thick. It is now out of warranty hence I am willing to perform a rare experiment - I never experiment with engine oils and this would be the first ever. If I find 0w-40 doesn't work so well I will be back to SHU. This brings me to the next point.

It's not quite simple as using an oil only because the oil manufacturer says a diesel oil suitable for petrol or vice versa. We need to check the service classifications (and viscosity) as well.

Let me explain:

Mobil Delvac 15-40 is rated at API SJ/SL which will suit some petrol engines but nearly all diesels as it is rated API CI4 which is a current classification. On the other hand, API SJ/SL is not suitable for one of my cars which requires minimum API SM while it suits the other which requires API SJ or better.

Similarly, if you take the case of either Shell Helix Ultra synthetic or Shell Helix HX5 mineral, they are rated at API SN and API SL respectively which means 2 things - they can be used in BOTH my cars and they are current API classifications.

On the other hand, both these new gen Shell oils are rated at only API CF which is an outdated/obsolete classification. Only vehicles with older diesel engines will be able to use these oils.

Similarly there may be specific viscosities (mostly 5w-30, 10w-30, 15w-40 mineral oils) required by an engine given an ambient operating temperature.

Hence please go by what your engine manufacturer specifies not what oil companies suggest.

I am uploading a PDF from the API for your and other TBHPians reference.
Did not read this post earlier, hence the reply here.

Totally agree with you regarding the points.

As sgiitk had pointed out clearly in earlier posts as long as your cold value is lower than recommended grade i.e. 0W could be used instead of 5W, but the oil would be thinner of better flow, and higher value ie. 40 or 50 > than manufacturer specs there should not be issue

I mean you could use 0W-40 safely on cars with 5W-40 or 5W-50 on cars with 5W-40 specs. Bottom line , it should match or exceed recommended specifications.

However, i personally felt that for older engines > 8 yrs old it would be better to stick to actual grade than trying out new things due to clearances, tolerances etc.

Cheers
MKP
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Old 14th December 2012, 20:27   #3649
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by mkpiyengar View Post
I mean you could use 0W-40 safely on cars with 5W-40 or 5W-50 on cars with 5W-40 specs. Bottom line , it should match or exceed recommended specifications.
Actually that's the thing. When I look at my car's manual 0w is not an option either in mineral or synthetic.

Approved cold/winter temp viscosities are 5w, 10w, 15w and 20w. So how do I assume that 0w is 'better'? Not really. It is marginally thinner at cold/ambient temps than 5w so it does not meet the manufacturer's requirements. Hence my hesitation and question about the suitability of 0W.
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Old 14th December 2012, 22:08   #3650
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by Catalyst_delhi View Post
Changed engine oil to Mobil Super 10w30 in my ford ikon 1.6. Much better than Castrol Edge. Cheaper as well. 1200 rupees for filter and oil (4.5 lit). Recommended is 5w30 but the lower number does not matter.
Isn't Mobil Super mineral based and Castrol Edge Fully Synth?
Can you please throw some more light:
Which engine-oil u had been using before Castrol Edge?
Run of your Vehicle?
What changes you notices in your vehicle after changing from Castrol Edge to Mobil Super?
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Old 15th December 2012, 02:14   #3651
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Actually, even if your car calls for a viscosity grade of 5W40 (hypothetical assumption), its not necessary that all oils of this grade can/should be used in the car. One of the most basic reasons is that not all 5W40 oils have the same viscosity at a said temparature. For example, the Shell Helix Ultra has a kinematic viscosity of about 69-70 cST at 40 degrees celcius but the value is about 102-105 cST for Delvac 1. Therefore, even the 5W in an oil is not a sure shot guarantee of being a good match for your car engine, especially for cold starts, since there are other factors involved.

That's why, I personally always find something that closely matches the manufacturer's specifications (like Ford WSS-M2C-913C for Fiesta/Figo TDCi) & as a second most important parameter, make sure that the ACEA rating is right for my car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Actually that's the thing. When I look at my car's manual 0w is not an option either in mineral or synthetic.

Approved cold/winter temp viscosities are 5w, 10w, 15w and 20w. So how do I assume that 0w is 'better'? Not really. It is marginally thinner at cold/ambient temps than 5w so it does not meet the manufacturer's requirements. Hence my hesitation and question about the suitability of 0W.

Last edited by blackfire_9 : 15th December 2012 at 02:18.
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Old 15th December 2012, 09:27   #3652
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
Actually, even if your car calls for a viscosity grade of 5W40 (hypothetical assumption), its not necessary that all oils of this grade can/should be used in the car. One of the most basic reasons is that not all 5W40 oils have the same viscosity at a said temparature. For example, the Shell Helix Ultra has a kinematic viscosity of about 69-70 cST at 40 degrees celcius but the value is about 102-105 cST for Delvac 1. Therefore, even the 5W in an oil is not a sure shot guarantee of being a good match for your car engine, especially for cold starts, since there are other factors involved.

That's why, I personally always find something that closely matches the manufacturer's specifications (like Ford WSS-M2C-913C for Fiesta/Figo TDCi) & as a second most important parameter, make sure that the ACEA rating is right for my car.
You have a point there about the viscosity in CSt.

Unfortunately Jap manufacturers like Toyota or Honda don't provide this data on their OEM oils so I cant use it for comparisons.

Even more unfortunately they do not have manufacturer specs and standards like the ones VW/Audi/BMW/Ford publish. They don't use ACEA ratings either.

The only things they do publish in the manual are the multigrade viscosity for an ambient temperature range & the API service classification. That's all I have to go with.
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Old 15th December 2012, 13:13   #3653
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by bijuiser View Post
Isn't Mobil Super mineral based and Castrol Edge Fully Synth?
Can you please throw some more light:
Which engine-oil u had been using before Castrol Edge?
Run of your Vehicle?
What changes you notices in your vehicle after changing from Castrol Edge to Mobil Super?

I used to change at Ford before , then i switched to Castrol Edge - Engine was noisier. Maybe my engine is old (140k kms). When i switched to Mobil Super , the engine quietened down. The lifter and chain noise went away.otherwise performance wise no difference.
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Old 15th December 2012, 16:54   #3654
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by Catalyst_delhi View Post
I used to change at Ford before , then i switched to Castrol Edge - Engine was noisier. Maybe my engine is old (140k kms). When i switched to Mobil Super , the engine quietened down. The lifter and chain noise went away.otherwise performance wise no difference.

That's quite easily explained, older engines have larger gaps/tolerances caused by wear and tear.

Synthetics with their superior lubing and cleaning properties will clean out combustion related deposits in the engine (which are preventing parts from moving even in fractions of a mm) and make the engine sound noisier. Also when you use thinner oil for e.g. synthetic, you will hear valve clatter even piston/gudgeon pin slap. The 'cushion' provided by a more viscous oil film is no longer present.

For engines that have done more than 80-90K it is better to stick to slightly thicker oil (for e.g. 15w-40 or even 20w-50) and avoid synthetics. Stick to mineral.
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Old 22nd December 2012, 16:44   #3655
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I recently happened to visit a good garage (which usually does Benz, Bmw and others alike) to get my car inspected.
My Honda city (Type II, '02) has done 90K and due for oil change.
He suggested me synthetic oil giving the logic that due to age and usage the oil lines get carbon lining deposited in them making the clearance smaller (I wonder if it stands true) and as that synthetic being thinner will easily pass through the passage.
I can understand that carbon deposit logic for engine but oil lines doesn't get through. What people have to say on this?
I also think that it is not wise to switch to synthetic.
But want to change the oil brand. How about Shell HX7 or Mobil Super (of 10/20W40)? I think Mobil Super is semi-synthetic.
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Old 22nd December 2012, 20:17   #3656
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

The oil passages do get deposits but its the other components of an engine that usually fail much-much before the deposits in oil lines can cause any issues. So, don't bother about this & especially when you have a Honda engine. Hondas can go on & on for many lakhs before needing any extensive maintenance expenditure.
Plus, I am assuming you have been sticking to appropriate oil change intervals (i.e. as per Honda's recommendations or 10K/1 year).

If you do not see your money's worth in a synthetic oil, you could get a semi-synthetic but I personally feel that a good mineral oil is all that's needed to keep your engine in top shape, especially when even semi-synthetics have recently seen a significant jump in prices. As on date, I believe that a semi-synthetic oil is at least 50-60% costlier than a similar spec'd mineral oil. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honda Monk View Post
I recently happened to visit a good garage (which usually does Benz, Bmw and others alike) to get my car inspected.
My Honda city (Type II, '02) has done 90K and due for oil change.
He suggested me synthetic oil giving the logic that due to age and usage the oil lines get carbon lining deposited in them making the clearance smaller (I wonder if it stands true) and as that synthetic being thinner will easily pass through the passage.
I can understand that carbon deposit logic for engine but oil lines doesn't get through. What people have to say on this?
I also think that it is not wise to switch to synthetic.
But want to change the oil brand. How about Shell HX7 or Mobil Super (of 10/20W40)? I think Mobil Super is semi-synthetic.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 11:17   #3657
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
The oil passages do get deposits but its the other components of an engine that usually fail much-much before the deposits in oil lines can cause any issues. So, don't bother about this & especially when you have a Honda engine. Hondas can go on & on for many lakhs before needing any extensive maintenance expenditure.
Plus, I am assuming you have been sticking to appropriate oil change intervals (i.e. as per Honda's recommendations or 10K/1 year).

If you do not see your money's worth in a synthetic oil, you could get a semi-synthetic but I personally feel that a good mineral oil is all that's needed to keep your engine in top shape, especially when even semi-synthetics have recently seen a significant jump in prices. As on date, I believe that a semi-synthetic oil is at least 50-60% costlier than a similar spec'd mineral oil. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Yes I do get my oil(Castrol Magnatec) changed at every 5K along with filters.
I think by using semi-synthetic I can longer the change interval to may be 10K But my important concern is that it would be better engineered oil hence smoother and better performance oil mineral.
I have not checked with prices lately I think it will be only 3/4 hundred rupees costlier.
I want to try shell (HX7), any reviews?
What specs differentiate semi-synthetic from mineral?
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Old 24th December 2012, 13:51   #3658
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I haven't personally used the HX7 but in general, Shell's line-up of engine oils are decent & thus, the HX7 shouldn't be any different. You could also look at the Quartz 7000 (from Total) or some oil from Mobil (although Mobil fakes have started floating the Indian market).

The prime difference between a semi-synthetic & a mineral oil is in the composition of the base stock. In simple terms, the semi-synthetic has about 5-12% synthetic content while the mineral doesn't have any. Therefore, ideally the semi-synthetic should be better but I still feel it doesn't justify the 50% price premium over a mineral oil. On the other hand, the viscosity grade of 10W40 is something that's only available in semi-synthetic form (for most companies in India, except Motul) & for cars needing 15W40 or 20W40, the 10W40 could be a better bet in winters. What viscosity does your car engine call for? 5W30, is it?

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I want to try shell (HX7), any reviews?
What specs differentiate semi-synthetic from mineral?
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Old 24th December 2012, 16:11   #3659
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
I haven't personally used the HX7 but in general, Shell's line-up of engine oils are decent & thus, the HX7 shouldn't be any different. You could also look at the Quartz 7000 (from Total) or some oil from Mobil (although Mobil fakes have started floating the Indian market).

The prime difference between a semi-synthetic & a mineral oil is in the composition of the base stock. In simple terms, the semi-synthetic has about 5-12% synthetic content while the mineral doesn't have any. Therefore, ideally the semi-synthetic should be better but I still feel it doesn't justify the 50% price premium over a mineral oil. On the other hand, the viscosity grade of 10W40 is something that's only available in semi-synthetic form (for most companies in India, except Motul) & for cars needing 15W40 or 20W40, the 10W40 could be a better bet in winters. What viscosity does your car engine call for? 5W30, is it?
Is Quartz better than Shell? WHich one of Mobil Semi-Synthetic?
I can get genuine Mobil as the dealer gets it directly from company distributer (and I have seen Mobil people there for promotion purpose).
For City 1.5 old model its 20W40.
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Old 25th December 2012, 15:43   #3660
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by dhuli View Post
My 20K service got delayed because of a trip from Bangalore to Kolhapur. Last week I got the much anticipated service at 22164 Km. Besides a surprise problem with rear right bearing that needed to be replaced , I went for Toyota branded synthetic oil picture here below.
Thanks..at this price I guess I will use the regular oil and save the INR 45k or so saved over 100000 km for some other service work that might come up. Guess I am becoming a penny pincher as I age .
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