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Old 13th November 2013, 14:40   #3871
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Warranty has nothing to do with synth or mineral. I have seen SAs ofering a choice of mineral or synth even during first service!

But changing the oil at recommended interval is very important. For example the change interval recommended by MSIL for my non-k10 Alto is 10k KM or one year, whichever is earlier. That is for the standard MGO, semisynth or synth - whatever.

I promptly change it with a good mineral oil or semi-synth on the one year mark, as my running for that period will be only ~ 5k KM. I have dispensed with half yearly oil changes.
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Old 13th November 2013, 21:56   #3872
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Mods please delete this post.

Last edited by Sn1p3r : 13th November 2013 at 22:01.
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Old 13th November 2013, 22:01   #3873
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
If you are betyond the 6 month mark then Synth with annual changes and semi- with change every 6 months are both kosher. Annual costs are also about the same.
Thanks Sgiitk, but the running I do and the dusty conditions the car is driven in; I thought a 6 month change works best. I will go in for full Synth next July once the car is done with the engine warranty and I am no longer constrained from Honda. The engine starts smoothly starting of the cold onset, I was in hills earlier this month and it was on song in the hills. I could see the difference between mineral and semi-synth as I drive the same route and the engine was better. Maybe I it was placebo but I got about 2kmpl more than the normal. 16kmpl on a round trip of 900 km in 3 days with 40% hill driving, 10% off-road and 50% highway drive.

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Warranty has nothing to do with synth or mineral. I have seen SAs ofering a choice of mineral or synth even during first service!
It is not the case, some dealers will change your full synth oil on the pretext of 6 month interval as recommended. I had this experience and thus stuck with the mineral. Honda's OEM synth is a semi-synth and not full synth oil. If you insist on Shell/Mobil1 etc. they will put a huge hue and cry as they do not get to make any money on the bottle from outside. I did not wish to lose warranty on family car and thus had to put with the red tape of sorts. Either you make pals with the dealer and see if they honor it or be safe and go by the book.
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Old 13th November 2013, 22:50   #3874
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How good is toyota synthetic oil for fortuner ?
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Old 14th November 2013, 09:18   #3875
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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It is not the case, some dealers will change your full synth oil on the pretext of 6 month interval as recommended. I had this experience and thus stuck with the mineral. Honda's OEM synth is a semi-synth and not full synth oil. If you insist on Shell/Mobil1 etc. they will put a huge hue and cry as they do not get to make any money on the bottle from outside. I did not wish to lose warranty on family car and thus had to put with the red tape of sorts. Either you make pals with the dealer and see if they honor it or be safe and go by the book.
That is not my experience with my A.S.S. (Maruti Service Masters). They give a choice of either Maruti Genuine Oil (semi-synth) which is actually formulated for them by Shell (earlier IOC) or Mobil 1 full synthetic. The former they will measure out the exact quantity and bill you; if you choose the latter, you have to buy a 4 litre can from them and any unused oil will be returned to you.

I always carry my own can of Shell Helix HX5 which they fill without a fuss. But they will write "oil brought by customer" on the card.
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Old 14th November 2013, 10:19   #3876
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by Sn1p3r View Post
It is not the case, some dealers will change your full synth oil on the pretext of 6 month interval as recommended. I had this experience and thus stuck with the mineral. Honda's OEM synth is a semi-synth and not full synth oil. If you insist on Shell/Mobil1 etc. they will put a huge hue and cry as they do not get to make any money on the bottle from outside. I did not wish to lose warranty on family car and thus had to put with the red tape of sorts. Either you make pals with the dealer and see if they honor it or be safe and go by the book.
I doubt that the Idemitsu 0W30 can be a semi-. 0W is not there in a semi. As for my own oil I used Mobil 1 in my Civic at the first change (5-months) and just put a note on the order sheete to the effect that Mobil1 0W40 API-SM (was not SN then), Full Synthetic and had no issues. I was told by one of the owners that Hyundai expects 85%+ of oil changes to be with their sourced oil, else they penalise the dealers. So the song and dance can be understood, though never condoned.
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Old 17th November 2013, 12:56   #3877
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
That is not my experience with my A.S.S. (Maruti Service Masters). They give a choice of either Maruti Genuine Oil (semi-synth) which is actually formulated for them by Shell (earlier IOC) or Mobil 1 full synthetic. The former they will measure out the exact quantity and bill you; if you choose the latter, you have to buy a 4 litre can from them and any unused oil will be returned to you.

I always carry my own can of Shell Helix HX5 which they fill without a fuss. But they will write "oil brought by customer" on the card.
I had a bad experience of them (changed Honda Service Center) draining the synthetic (5k mileage).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
I doubt that the Idemitsu 0W30 can be a semi-. 0W is not there in a semi. As for my own oil I used Mobil 1 in my Civic at the first change (5-months) and just put a note on the order sheete to the effect that Mobil1 0W40 API-SM (was not SN then), Full Synthetic and had no issues. I was told by one of the owners that Hyundai expects 85%+ of oil changes to be with their sourced oil, else they penalise the dealers. So the song and dance can be understood, though never condoned.
Initially I went to the service center myself but for past 2 services I have been doing it on the call. The Service engineer himself told me that Honda's OEM is semi-synth, I just quoted his phrase. However, as I have a City and you a Civic, maybe they use different oils, plausible.
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Old 17th November 2013, 17:05   #3878
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by Sn1p3r View Post
Initially I went to the service center myself but for past 2 services I have been doing it on the call. The Service engineer himself told me that Honda's OEM is semi-synth, I just quoted his phrase. However, as I have a City and you a Civic, maybe they use different oils, plausible.
Honda regular oil 5(or10)W30 is a semi- but they also have a full synth 0W30. The supplier is Savita and the latter (Idemitsu) is not rebadged.

The same juice is used in all their petrol engines.
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Old 18th November 2013, 12:54   #3879
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Honda regular oil 5(or10)W30 is a semi- but they also have a full synth 0W30. The supplier is Savita and the latter (Idemitsu) is not rebadged.

The same juice is used in all their petrol engines.
Sgiitk, I do not know why then he insisted on selling me the semi-synth. I specifically asked him for full synth and even told that there was a 4lt Mobil 1 in the boot. He said, can't do, we will fill our own semi-synth.

I do feel that the engine revs more freely and the biggest difference I see is the cold start and the engine braking, the car does not slow down considerably as it used to do with Mineral oil.

Next service is due in June and it will be the 4th year and the engine warranty is up. I will get the full synthetic. Please suggest which one. I returned the Mobil 1. Thanks!
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Old 18th November 2013, 14:22   #3880
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by Sn1p3r View Post
Sgiitk, I do not know why then he insisted on selling me the semi-synth. I specifically asked him for full synth and even told that there was a 4lt Mobil 1 in the boot. He said, can't do, we will fill our own semi-synth. Thanks!
Maybe he did ot have the synth in stock. Cost wise the semi at 6 months and synth at 12 months cost the same (+Rs.100 or 150). You have to vector in the additional filter and washer.

Why he refused the Mobil1 I do not understand. It is a matter for reporting to the MRTPC. I used Mobil1 at the 6 month service of my Civic and had no issues. I noted on the sheel 4l Mobil 1 0-W40 Synth, API SM supplied and had no issues. Then I switched to the Idemitsu since it is cheaper, and also SAE30 instead of 40.
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Old 23rd November 2013, 18:42   #3881
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I have started using Mobil 1 OW40 for my Jazz. It seems to be really difficult to find a retailer/dealer anywhere other than JC Road in Bangalore. Managed to buy 4 LTRS it for 3.8K from a shop in JC Road.

I have a question, guys. I have this oil in the engine right now. Since it was hard to find in Bangalore anywhere other than JC road, I assume it'd be harder to find in smaller towns. So, say I'm on a road trip and need to top up for some reason, will it be OK if I top it up with some other brand of synth oil? Does it need to be of the same grade? Worst case, if no synth oil is available, is it OK to top-up with mineral oil? Are they mutually inert, chemically?
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Old 24th November 2013, 07:32   #3882
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Worst case, it is ok to top up as you suggest, they are inert, and will also mix together. When I was on my synthetic oil trip though, my practice was to keep a one litre pack of the same oil in the boot for such emergencies - and emergencies they are, a Honda petrol engine rarely needs topping up between oil changes. Where the change takes the level to the max mark on the dip stick, I have never known it to register below the min mark in a 12 month/10000 kms period. In fact if you observe Honda recommended practice for the change, you will be changing more frequently than that, all the more reason why synth is a waste of money with Hondas. Notwithstanding what they say about synth being necessary.

Last edited by Sawyer : 24th November 2013 at 07:35.
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Old 24th November 2013, 13:17   #3883
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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I have never known it to register below the min mark in a 12 month/10000 kms period. In fact if you observe Honda recommended practice for the change, you will be changing more frequently than that, all the more reason why synth is a waste of money with Hondas. Notwithstanding what they say about synth being necessary.
To each his own Sawyer. To me frequent change of oil is menat for mineral oil. We as enthusiast know our engines but a layman does not care. I have heard stories about either gender callous enough for the check engine light to come on before they take the car for service. The service advisor in rhetoric says it was on last drop of oil sludge our engines are great to have gone through this torture. Thus, my friend after being a proponent of frequent change on mineral, I recommend synthetic if the warranties are not affected. The sheer joy of everyday use makes up for the extra moolah.

Now that I have done another 2000 km on the semi-synth (@Sgiitk it costed me INR 2871 for 3.7 lts is it semi or full?): Economy has risen by 4 kmpl however I am not using AC which is on in Summer (point to point) thus effective 2 kmpl is what I extract in daily city runs. My style is to use brakes less often, be in the right gear to accelerate and not lug the engine.

The economy figure you might think is unrealistic and thus I did not mention it earlier, I did multiple runs of 70 km daily for past 3 weeks to conclude. The engine braking is extremely smooth and winter early starts is not jerky this is the what I most attribute to the synthetic.

Last edited by Sn1p3r : 24th November 2013 at 13:42. Reason: Referred to bill from Honda and corrected the cost of oil
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Old 24th November 2013, 14:34   #3884
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Toyota still uses Mineral oil in its regular service schedule. I don't think synthetic is worth the extra money since the company itself is using Mineral oil. In my usage, I haven't seen the oil levels drop or change colour after the 10k interval. And the cost difference is substantial. Also the fact that all those Logans and Innovas have been running successfully for lacs of kms on mineral oil. So is it really of any worth?
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Old 24th November 2013, 15:10   #3885
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

A good mineral is perfectly adequate. Indeed, the Toyota SA says just this when he offers you the Toyota synth, while saying at the same time it doesn't matter if you stick to the mineral.
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