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Old 26th February 2014, 16:29   #3991
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Originally Posted by su1978 View Post
Everytime i have gone for servicing, the Service advisor at Maruti service station has insisted on putting in synthetic oil. This has cost me around 4500 rs for 3.1
This is what they are meant for. They kill you when taking the car for service and harass to use synthetic oil instead of mineral. I was to tortured but kept my feet down. I used mineral oil till 20K kms in my Ritz VDi but after that shifted to Synthetic.

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My colleagues have always gone for the normal mineral oil which costs around 2500 bucks. One of them even went to the extent of saying that his brother also owns a Ritz VDI and has never gone for synthetic oil but his car also gives him an average of around 17-18 kmpl.
Mineral oil would be between 1000-1500 bucks as per litre cost is some 250-300 bucks. Synthetic oil doesn't mean better performance and mileage improving.

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Views and opinions apart, but i have always felt the performance of the car to be great whenever i have used Synthetic oil. In 3 years/45000 kms of ownership, i have never had any mechanical problem.
NVH levels are better off with synthetic and the change interval us longer for synthetic.

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Originally Posted by su1978 View Post
Is there any written article or comparison from any of the third parties/neutral agency proving that Synthetics are better than mineral oil. And also the effect it has shown on the performance and the engine life.
I haven't seen any such great difference but my car is silent and smooth. Shall search for any articles for comparison and post it here.

Synthetic oil - 10K kms
Mineral oil - 5K kms.

Anurag.
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Old 26th February 2014, 18:52   #3992
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

My car just underwent the 20K paid service, in this service I changed the engine oil to synthetic (Castrol Edge Professional 5W-40).

The smoothness is obvious at cruising speeds.

Yes synthetic oil is a tad expensive but if it improves the NVH and engine health. Then in my opinion it is money well spent.

Also thank you a4anurag for the advise!
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Old 26th February 2014, 20:04   #3993
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
@prashkul; At 5000km a year stick with a good semi-synth (API SM/SN) and an annual oil change!
Thank you sir for getting back.

I opted for synthetic oil. I'm hoping to do a lot more driving this year and there are already two 1500-2000KM road-trips lined for next couple of months. I'm OCD about cabin noise, so if the synthetic can contribute to lower NVH that'll be most welcome. I expect refined performance from the engine due to this change.

SA mentioned that they anway do a flush before every oil change - which I was not aware of!
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Old 26th February 2014, 20:34   #3994
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Originally Posted by prashkul View Post

Thank you sir for getting back.

I opted for synthetic oil. I'm hoping to do a lot more driving this year and there are already two 1500-2000KM road-trips lined for next couple of months. I'm OCD about cabin noise, so if the synthetic can contribute to lower NVH that'll be most welcome. I expect refined performance from the engine due to this change.

SA mentioned that they anway do a flush before every oil change - which I was not aware of!
The engine refinement and lower NVH levels are the positives but they are not that great to say Synthetic oils are the best.

Engine flushing is needed when changing from Synthetic to mineral or vice versa but not between every oil change.

Anurag.
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Old 27th February 2014, 11:13   #3995
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

An engine's long life is not dependent on the oil alone. Various bad habits very common in India ensure that engine life is seriously reduced:
1. Revving when cold
2. Lugging the engine.
3. Relatively short urban driving, etc.

The above worsen the situation even more for turbo engines.

Even on mineral oils, engines have been known to run for 150,000 - 200,000 km without any problems. It is always a debate whether to use a synthetic and increase the change interval or use cheaper mineral with shorter change interval.

Most car manufacturers recommend the same oil change interval irrespective of whether you use synthetic or mineral.

However use of synthetic in our conditions generally tends to mitigate the damages from the above bad habits.
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Old 24th March 2014, 13:09   #3996
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I posted my predicament in the Shell fuel price discussion thread, and got no response. I hope this is a more relevant thread for my query. Here it is (copy-pasting from my other post with some editing):

Unfortunately, I learned the limitations of getting an oil change at a Shell pump when I went to the Chromepet Shell fuel station last Wednesday.

An Alto was getting its oil changed when I went there. While waiting for my turn, I purchased the oil and filter. The total cost came to ₹ 1,218 (₹ 1,008 for a 3.5 lit. can of Shell Helix HX5 mineral oil + ₹ 210 for the Hyundai OEM oil filter).

After the Alto left, I parked the i10 over the pit. It began well enough. The mechanic cleaned the air filter and the engine bay with pressurised air, checked the battery electrolyte, brake fluid and coolant to see if they needed topping up. Then he went down into the pit and unscrewed the plug to drain the old engine oil. After that, he tried to remove the oil filter. This is where the problem began.

It seemed the old oil filter just did not want to come off. It was as if it was welded on and would not budge. He removed a plastic panel on the underbody (held by two screws) to get better access to the oil filter. Still it wouldn't come off. By this time, I left the comfort of the small A/C waiting room and joined him in the pit to see what the problem was. And sure enough, the old filter wouldn't budge even a single millimetre. He tried with different oil filter wrenches with the same result. I tried as well, and fared no better. He also got a wrench with an extra long removable handle (for better leverage) and tried from the top. Even with the combined effort of the two of us, the filter would not come off.

With all this, the filter also got a bit bent at some points, due to the efforts in trying to remove it with a "clawed" filter wrench. Now I was worried that something in the engine bay would snap if we continued. So I asked him to stop.

The used oil had drained out, so I got the new one filled. Since the old filter was still in place, it would take in well less than the total capacity. I got the plug and panel fixed back in place, checked for engine oil leaks (thankfully, there were none), filled fuel at the pump and left.

So now, the car is running with new engine oil mixed with some used oil still left in it, because the old filter would not come off.

Is this going to cause a problem for the engine? Is it advisable to run the car for a couple of thousand kilometres (or three months) more, before I take it to the workshop? To be taken into consideration is the fact that the filter is not only old, but got a little bent at a few places because of the "clawed" filter wrench.

Experts, I need your advice.

Should I take the car to a workshop to get the filter (and oil) changed immediately? Or can we use the car for a couple of thousand odd km before going for a service? Will they have a suitable tool (like a powered filter wrench) to remove the stubborn old filter?
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Old 24th March 2014, 16:11   #3997
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Filters do get jammed occasionally. The <250ml of left will do no real harm. I will get the filter replaced asap and top up.
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Old 24th March 2014, 19:07   #3998
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Originally Posted by RSR View Post
Should I take the car to a workshop to get the filter (and oil) changed immediately? Or can we use the car for a couple of thousand odd km before going for a service? Will they have a suitable tool (like a powered filter wrench) to remove the stubborn old filter?
Go to Hyundai ASS / FNG / Bosch ASC and get this filter removed from the car.

If I were you, I would have bought another 3.1L oil can and filed it with the NEW oil filter rather than a simple top-up.

Please don't delay as the bent oil filter can let some residue inside the oil lines and clog it.

Anurag.
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Old 24th March 2014, 23:51   #3999
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

This scenario is usually a result of the oil filter having been tightened too much or tightened in a skewed / misaligned position. Mostly the oil sumps are iron if that is the case here then upon exerting force the filters's threads will strip and it will come unstuck, in case the sump itself is aluminium chances are either of the threads could strip or if you are lucky the filter might jump and again come loose.

If nothing works the best thing is to cut away the filter body and then work on its neck to unscrew it skilfully with a steady hand and a lot of patience. Best done at a service centre/workshop.

There is no harm in running the car the way it is as even though the body is bent the neck itself is 'securely' in position but the efficiency of the filter may be affected depending on how clogged it was to start with.


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Originally Posted by RSR View Post
........ With all this, the filter also got a bit bent at some points, due to the efforts in trying to remove it with a "clawed" filter wrench. Now I was worried that something in the engine bay would snap if we continued. So I asked him to stop.

.........Is this going to cause a problem for the engine? Is it advisable to run the car for a couple of thousand kilometres (or three months) more, before I take it to the workshop? To be taken into consideration is the fact that the filter is not only old, but got a little bent at a few places because of the "clawed" filter wrench.

Experts, I need your advice.

Should I take the car to a workshop to get the filter (and oil) changed immediately? Or can we use the car for a couple of thousand odd km before going for a service? Will they have a suitable tool (like a powered filter wrench) to remove the stubborn old filter?
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Old 25th March 2014, 11:31   #4000
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Thank you for your replies and suggestions, sgiitk, a4anurag & khoj!

Yes, the small quantity of old oil left in it isn't that much of an issue. The bent filter is the main problem. It's difficult to tell from the outside how much the dents would have affected its internal filtering structure.

I'll get it changed as soon as possible at either a Hyundai workshop or a well-equipped garage. I hope the jammed filter comes off and that we don't have to do something tricky to get it out.

Thanks again, friends!
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Old 25th March 2014, 11:34   #4001
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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I'll get it changed as soon as possible at either a Hyundai workshop or a well-equipped garage. I hope the jammed filter comes off and that we don't have to do something tricky to get it out.
I remember in my student days I had a baulky filter. I ended up going to a garage, a they they had to punch through it with a screwdriver and then wrench it off. A new filter was naturally installed.
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Old 28th March 2014, 08:41   #4002
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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I'll get it changed as soon as possible at either a Hyundai workshop or a well-equipped garage. I hope the jammed filter comes off and that we don't have to do something tricky to get it out.
The used oil remaining may not create a problem but the bent filter itself may let debris etc in the engine and damage the internals, hence it is advised to get it repaired ASAP.

BTW, any update on the filter change? How was it changed?

Anurag.
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Old 28th March 2014, 11:08   #4003
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I had this problem of jammed filter too. My problem went on to become severe because of the leak the filter developed for some reason. It was done by an 'incompetent' MASS. They tightened the filter a little too much during the oil change. The filter's shape deformed a little. I did not know this until it leaked and all the less than 50KM Castrol Magnatec oil drained out. Thankfully, the engine survived the frying. The filter was removed by piercing it and putting across a big screw driver along with the wrench.

You can have a look at the filter here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...age-3-a-4.html (Maruti Ertiga VDi - Engine oil leak. EDIT : Issue resolved on Page 3)
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Old 28th March 2014, 11:48   #4004
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
The used oil remaining may not create a problem but the bent filter itself may let debris etc in the engine and damage the internals, hence it is advised to get it repaired ASAP.

BTW, any update on the filter change? How was it changed?
Unfortunately, I haven't got it changed yet. Planning to get it done it this weekend, as I want to be physically present - just to ensure everything goes smoothly without further complications. Patience and a technical method is the key, brute force would damage something.


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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
I had this problem of jammed filter too. My problem went on to become severe because of the leak the filter developed for some reason. It was done by an 'incompetent' MASS. They tightened the filter a little too much during the oil change. The filter's shape deformed a little. I did not know this until it leaked and all the less than 50KM Castrol Magnatec oil drained out. Thankfully, the engine survived the frying.
That's scary!

Glad to hear the engine came out unscathed.

I'm also beginning to suspect that the guys at HMP tightened the filter too much the last time, or they tightened it without matching the thread.

Of course, it's possible that the filter did get jammed due to some other reason as well.

I keep checking for oil leaks, and so far there have been none. The level on the oil dipstick has also remained constant so far, with my daily checks.

Still, I think it's safer to remove the old filter ASAP. Will update once I get it done.


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The filter was removed by piercing it and putting across a big screw driver along with the wrench.
This sounds the same as what sgiitk sir used to remove the jammed filter.

It looks like I'll have to resort to this method as well, if the stupid filter continues to remain stubborn.

Last edited by RSR : 28th March 2014 at 11:52.
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Old 29th March 2014, 10:27   #4005
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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This sounds the same as what sgiitk sir used to remove the jammed filter.

It looks like I'll have to resort to this method as well, if the stupid filter continues to remain stubborn.
Exactly, but more succinctly put. Remember had a new filter handy, and remember once you puncture the casing there is no going back. Better get it done at a garage.
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