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Old 17th February 2015, 23:14   #4186
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parth46 View Post

Regarding the warranty part, Hyundai's customer care portal clearly mentions that either Indian Oil Servo (provided by HASS) or Shell Helix is acceptable engine oil, provided the grade is correct.

I also called Advaith hyundai a few days ago and they confirmed to me that I can bring my own oil if I want to go for fully-synthetic as they stock only mineral and semi-synthetic oil.

Please refer to this link : http://www.customercare.hyundai.co.i...Petrol-23.aspx

I would very much like to use fully-synth and would request Captain Slow to share contact details of genuine dealers with me.
Prath, As my friend Gansan mentioned above, I would wait a bit more before going full Synthetic.
But If you do want to go ahead with Synthetic, then head to JC road - Bang next to JK Automobiles there is a lube shop he sells all kind of lubes.
You could also ask JK traders, Car Automobiles.

Quote:
*Cars sold before 15th April 2012 should follow 10,000 km or 6 months ( whichever comes earlier) schedule.
Cars sold after 15th April 2012 should follow 10,000 km or 1 year ( whichever comes earlier) schedule.
Cars sold After 15th April 2012 should follow 10,000 km or 1 year?? I am guessing some change here? Maybe the oil ?

Just a heads up the link posted by you mentioned 5W 30. Shell Helix Ultra is 5W 40. Check with Hyundai service before you buy this and do the oil change.
If the recommended grade is 5W 30 then you need Helix ultra extra. This is a little hard to find sometimes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by maheshramaling View Post
Could someone explain the benefits of using synthetic oil in a DI engine like Pajero SFX or a Bolero DI?

Even if we move to Synthetic - the engine oil change interval remain 6 months (in Pajero's case).


1) keep the engine healthy in the long run?
2) translate into increasing fuel efficiency?
3) help increase the oil change interval from 6 months to say 10 months or 12 months?

Are there any other direct or in-direct benefits of using synthetic oil in a DI engine?

Is it worthwhile spending almost 3 to 4 times over the mineral oil?
Benefits of using synthetic? lesser Vibrations & noise, smoother engine, slightly better protection.

1) keep the engine healthy in the long run?
For sure yes, if the engine is maintained properly.

2) translate into increasing fuel efficiency?
I don't believe it does. This is one of the placebo effects .

3) help increase the oil change interval from 6 months to say 10 months or 12 months?
While the oil may last 10-12 months the oil filter will not! You will need to replace the oil filter once in 6 months.
8000-10,000 KM's in 12-15 months is the max I would stretch my oil change even if its fully synthetic oil.

Is it worth it ? Depends on you and how much you feel this above is worth.

IF you feel full Synthetic oil expensive there are semi Synthetic based oils which perform well at half the price of a Synthetic oils. You could try something like this and then take a call if fully Synthetic oils are worthwhile.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
Not the one I am referring to! It is directly under the thumb of Shell marketing guys (model, high visibility station, with full fledged oil change facility). If I can't trust them, I can't trust anyone.
Ah ok, Just for the heck of it, I bought the oil from the local distributors and took to my regular shell bunk, compared it to their stock. Guess what ? ? Both had the same kind of sticker and same month/year of import! So I guess what I got has to be the real thing!

Last edited by Captain Slow : 17th February 2015 at 23:16.
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Old 17th February 2015, 23:26   #4187
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by Captain Slow View Post
Prath, As my friend Gansan mentioned above, I would wait a bit more before going full Synthetic.
But If you do want to go ahead with Synthetic, then head to JC road - Bang next to JK Automobiles there is a lube shop he sells all kind of lubes.
You could also ask JK traders, Car Automobiles.


Just a heads up the link posted by you mentioned 5W 30. Shell Helix Ultra is 5W 40. Check with Hyundai service before you buy this and do the oil change.
If the recommended grade is 5W 30 then you need Helix ultra extra. This is a little hard to find sometimes.
Thanks Captain! Based on yours and Gansan's guidance let me try semi-synth for now and see it can work as a good middle ground. I do like to rev my car nicely to accelerate thru the gears so thought the added protection would be worth it.

Also, I did go thru ALL the pages of this thread and gathered that as long as the 5W40 exceeds 5W30 in mmWnn format, we should be good. The oil anyway is API_SN compliant which is Hyundai's main consideration.

Thanks again for your help, I'll keep you posted with the call I take next week.

Cheers
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Old 18th February 2015, 11:44   #4188
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by Captain Slow View Post
3) help increase the oil change interval from 6 months to say 10 months or 12 months?
While the oil may last 10-12 months the oil filter will not! You will need to replace the oil filter once in 6 months.
8000-10,000 KM's in 12-15 months is the max I would stretch my oil change even if its fully synthetic oil.
Thanks much for your response and I have heard about those benefits but what I am not sure if these benefits are there for DI engines too.

Reason for asking; For my laura, Skoda's recommendation is to change oil (fully synthetic) and oil filter only 12 months or 15K kms.

Whereas my Pajero which is a DI - I also use Fully synthetic oil but the recommendation is to change oil and oil filter every 6 months or 10k kms.

So - wondering what is different between DI and modern engines wrt the engine oil we use and are there any tangible benefits in using synthetic oil in DI engines. This is where my dilemma is.

Alternatively, would my DI engine be more healthy if I change the engine oil/ oil filter say every 4 or 5 months but use Mineral oil?
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Old 19th February 2015, 14:46   #4189
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by Parth46 View Post
Also, I did go thru ALL the pages of this thread and gathered that as long as the 5W40 exceeds 5W30 in mmWnn format, we should be good. The oil anyway is API_SN compliant which is Hyundai's main consideration.
Its not that simple. If the manufacturer recommends 5w30 then use 5w30.
They have recommended this grade of oil after testing and R&D.

5W40 is a slightly thicker oil. Once the engine reaches operating temperature the 5W40 will not flow as smoothly as the 30.
This could cause stress on various parts of the engine and also oil may not reach (reach there slowly) places where it should flow. (Because of the thicker oil).
This will also effect your fuel economy.

Stick to 5W30. The 30/40 means the oil viscosity at operating temperature

For older cars which have high miles thicker oil will work better. Your car being relatively new, stick with what the manufacturer recommends.

if 5w30 and 5w40 are the same then why are oil companies selling the same oil in different oil grades?

Quote:
Originally Posted by maheshramaling View Post


Alternatively, would my DI engine be more healthy if I change the engine oil/ oil filter say every 4 or 5 months but use Mineral oil?
I really do not know about Diesel engines. But I do know that using mineral oil and changing your engine oil & filter once in 6 months will help keep your engine clean and in good shape.
Maybe Bhpian Jeroen can help here?

You Could try a Semi/Full Synthetic oil and see if you notice any improvement in the way the engine feels and responds.

Last edited by Captain Slow : 19th February 2015 at 14:47.
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Old 19th February 2015, 14:59   #4190
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by Captain Slow View Post
Its not that simple. If the manufacturer recommends 5w30 then use 5w30.
They have recommended this grade of oil after testing and R&D.

5W40 is a slightly thicker oil. Once the engine reaches operating temperature the 5W40 will not flow as smoothly as the 30.
This could cause stress on various parts of the engine and also oil may not reach (reach there slowly) places where it should flow. (Because of the thicker oil).
This will also effect your fuel economy.
Thanks Captain for this info, however it does make things a little tricky as Shell doesn't market/sell this oil much in the market. I'll check with the dealer whose details you provided and see if it can be easily sourced. It's Shell Helix Ultra Extra if I remember correctly which is exactly 5W30.

On a related topic, I just checked once again with my SA and he mentioned that I'm free to bring my own oil without any warranty concerns as long as it's a good brand and meets manufacturer specs. So I guess I'm good there.

Cheers.

Last edited by Parth46 : 19th February 2015 at 15:01.
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Old 19th February 2015, 15:03   #4191
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

As a general rule of thumb, if a manufacturer recommended oil is xxwyy, then you can select any oil where the lower number is =/<xx and the upper one is =/> yy, and the API rating is =/> recommendation. But there will be exceptions to any rule! That exception is the higher number of 50, which will suit high mileage engines more!

In general, any owner's manual will recommend two or three grades, for different conditions. A.S.s. centress will use the most optimum one for our conditions.

For instance as per my Alto's manual the recommended oil is 20W40 API SF, but it also recommends 10W30 for some places. But now all Maruti A.S.S centres use 10W30 across all engines, while Maruti recommends it only for the K series engines. So I carry my own HX-7 for the service.

Similarly when I bought my Splendor in Feb 2000, the recommended oil was 20W40 and all service centres used it. Then a couple of years down the line HH standardized the oil as 10W30, and they have been using it ever since for the same bikes. We should also keep in mind that the HH engines ran for more than 100k KM before an overhaul then, while the norm now is more like 50k KM! Means more parts sale = more $$ for HH!

Frankly I will be more comfortable with a slightly higher XX number than recommendation rather than a lower one, for our climate.

Last edited by Gansan : 19th February 2015 at 15:06.
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Old 20th February 2015, 17:10   #4192
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parth46 View Post
Regarding the warranty part, Hyundai's customer care portal clearly mentions that either Indian Oil Servo (provided by HASS) or Shell Helix is acceptable engine oil, provided the grade is correct.

I also called Advaith hyundai a few days ago and they confirmed to me that I can bring my own oil if I want to go for fully-synthetic as they stock only mineral and semi-synthetic oil.
When I owned Hyundai's I learnt from the HASS that Hyundai expects the dealer to use Hyundai oil for at least 85% cars, otherwise they used to penalise them. That this the first three services included oil, but apart from that I always provided my own oil, and never had any hassles (maybe being from IIT helped!). Of course the viscosity and API rating had to equal or exceed Hyundai oils (API-SJ at that time)
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Old 20th February 2015, 18:28   #4193
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
When I owned Hyundai's I learnt from the HASS that Hyundai expects the dealer to use Hyundai oil for at least 85% cars, otherwise they used to penalise them. That this the first three services included oil, but apart from that I always provided my own oil, and never had any hassles (maybe being from IIT helped!). Of course the viscosity and API rating had to equal or exceed Hyundai oils (API-SJ at that time)
Thanks Professor. I agree, I don't foresee any major issues while taking my own oil next week, as long as the grade and brand is good.

I'm certain not a lot of people would insist on fully-synth for a humble grand i10 and hence the 85% criteria overall should not impact me much. I'll report back with the actual experience next week, right now the aim is to get genuine oil over the weekend for the service next week.

Cheers
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Old 24th February 2015, 19:04   #4194
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Default Update Regarding Shell Helix Ultra Fully Synthetic oils

Today We bought a can of Shell Helix Ultra which had an MRP of almost Rs 5,150-/ ( this is what the shell bunks charge)

Looking at the can all looked good until I saw something very interesting.
This Oil is now made in India!

Until Recently (1-2 years back) the Shell Helix Ultra was fully imported and only the HX3, HX5 and HX7 were locally made.


Implications of this premium oil being made in India?

It should be cheaper than the competition( Made in India vs imported). But its not! MRP of almost 5150 isn't cheap.

My Worry is about the Quality of this oil. On inspecting the oil It smelt a little different from my older Shell can which was imported.

Can they maintain the same QC of the imported oil ? Will people stick to shell or move on to other brands?
Attached Thumbnails
ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil-newshell.jpg  

ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil-newshell2.jpg  

ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil-shellhelixold1a.jpg  

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Old 24th February 2015, 20:38   #4195
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Default Re: Update Regarding Shell Helix Ultra Fully Synthetic oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Slow View Post
Today We bought a can of Shell Helix Ultra which had an MRP of almost Rs 5,150-/ ( this is what the shell bunks charge)

Looking at the can all looked good until I saw something very interesting.
This Oil is now made in India!
This is good news! It goes well with the "Make in India" campaign.

Quote:
It should be cheaper than the competition( Made in India vs imported). But its not! MRP of almost 5150 isn't cheap.
I, too, would have expected Shell to pass on the benefit of a (presumably) lower cost of manufacture to the customers. It doesn't look like it's the case here. What was the MRP of an imported can of the same oil before?

Quote:
My Worry is about the Quality of this oil. On inspecting the oil It smelt a little different from my older Shell can which was imported.

Can they maintain the same QC of the imported oil ? Will people stick to shell or move on to other brands?
This is an area of concern. How will the ordinary end user be able to tell the difference (if indeed there is any)?

I hope the India-manufactured one is made to the same exacting standards as the one they used to import. If the end user is not satisfied or is left with lingering doubts, then Shell would take a hit as people move on to rival brands. As the synthetic oil market is a very lucrative one, albeit small (yet growing quickly), Shell would not want such a thing to happen.
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Old 25th February 2015, 17:40   #4196
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by Captain Slow View Post
Can they maintain the same QC of the imported oil ? Will people stick to shell or move on to other brands?
Surprising you had to pay Rs 5150. I thought there was some price reduction benefit thanks to the 'Made in India'!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
This is an area of concern. How will the ordinary end user be able to tell the difference (if indeed there is any)?
Other than trusting these Shell petrol pumps for stocking genuine packages nothing much can be done on this front.

A layman cannot get any pointers but will see if the grades recommended b OEM matches to the label printed at the back of the oil can. If it does then there no other way to ascertain anything. Buy it with trust - That's all!
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Old 26th February 2015, 09:19   #4197
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I am not really certain if this has been asked before but I couldn't find any result so far. I was told that synthetic oil is not designed to work inside the gear box but only inside the engine. And hence I should go for the semi synthetic oil for motorcycles instead of the fully synthetic. Also not a lot of mechanics I asked favored synthetic oil for motorcycles. Any thoughts?
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Old 26th February 2015, 09:27   #4198
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Default Re: Update Regarding Shell Helix Ultra Fully Synthetic oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
I hope the India-manufactured one is made to the same exacting standards as the one they used to import.
We are buying their HX-5, HX-7, AX-5 and AX-7 oils over the years and have been using them with perfect results. They are all manufactured in India. Why should the Ultra be any different? I will have no issues with buying it.
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Old 26th February 2015, 12:09   #4199
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Default Re: Update Regarding Shell Helix Ultra Fully Synthetic oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
This is good news! It goes well with the "Make in India" campaign.



I, too, would have expected Shell to pass on the benefit of a (presumably) lower cost of manufacture to the customers. It doesn't look like it's the case here. What was the MRP of an imported can of the same oil before?
While I m happy to see this made in India, this also worries me! Will it be of the same standard set globally?

The older can had an MRP of 4524, This is my older can.
ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil-shellhelixold.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Surprising you had to pay Rs 5150. I thought there was some price reduction benefit thanks to the 'Made in India'!
Other than trusting these Shell petrol pumps for stocking genuine packages nothing much can be done on this front.



Keeping the MRP aside, from the local oil guys we can get them for a much lower rate. (with a small chance that the oil you are buying could be a fake)

The Made in India has increased the price! And I fear reduction is quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
We are buying their HX-5, HX-7, AX-5 and AX-7 oils over the years and have been using them with perfect results. They are all manufactured in India. Why should the Ultra be any different? I will have no issues with buying it.

Gansan,

The problem arises when Quality isn't maintained.
HX-5, HX-7, AX-5 and AX-7 were always made in India and no one has used or seen imported oils of these grades.

Now We are spoiled with imported Ultra and suddenly we get locally made ultra (at a higher cost) that is a big disappointment.

Slightly unrelated -
You being a Maruti Owner know we get MGP and SGP (parts) Maruti Genuine Marts & Suzuki Genuine Parts.
The SGP parts are Superior in every way but they come at a premium.

Would anyone buy MGP if they are priced higher than SGP parts?

Now Lets get back to shell.
Our locally made in India oil is more expensive than the fully imported stuff?
Also this when the oil prices have come down drastically!
Back in 2013 oil was a bit over 100$ a barrel!
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ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil-shellhelixold1.jpg  

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Old 26th February 2015, 12:25   #4200
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

^^ I would not worry. It is not as if the oil was coming from Europe or North America earlier, it was only Malaysia!

How about Mobil synthetic oils? My MASS uses only that for fully synthetic. Comes in 4 litre cans. Is it sourced from outside India? I don't think so.
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