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Old 18th January 2016, 07:16   #4321
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

One of the many reasons I respect Toyota and their dealer operations is because although the station carries both mineral and synthetic Toyota branded oils, every service advisor is consistent in saying that mineral is perfectly adequate, but if you want we can fill synthetic. This, for petrol engines on a 10000km/12 month change cycle. I do not know what they suggest for diesels.
PS: we ought to give more attention to the quality of our food intake these days, what with all the pesticide and pollution caused effects. I don't bother much about either, just a thought.

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Old 18th January 2016, 16:19   #4322
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Question to the SX4 owners and the others too.

Last time I got oil changed, only 4L went in and the level was showing right so the mechanic did not use the rest (300 ml). I thought maybe he did not drain the previous oil properly because of which this happened.

Now I have a friend who has an Automatic SX4 and he said only 4L is required as the oil filters have gotten smaller! I don't think the filter will make a difference of 300 ml. The manual shows 4.3L capacity. Next oil change I'll ask the mechanic to drain oil when the engines slightly cooled down.

Any inputs on this?

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Old 18th January 2016, 17:44   #4323
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
One of the many reasons I respect Toyota and their dealer operations is because although the station carries both mineral and synthetic Toyota branded oils, every service advisor is consistent in saying that mineral is perfectly adequate, but if you want we can fill synthetic. This, for petrol engines on a 10000km/12 month change cycle. I do not know what they suggest for diesels.
I agree. In the nearly 10 years that I have owned Toyota cars never have the dealers ever tried to hard sell the far more expensive synthetic oil. Not just that, they have always agreed to use the oil I gave them (Shell Helix Ultra) without making a fuss, ever. Now this is DSK Toyota in Pune, not sure about other dealers in India. They are very clear that the Toyota OEM mineral oil (currently 5W-30, previously 15W-40) will do the job till the next service or 10K km whichever is earlier. So, frankly I do NOT recommend synthetic unless you really want to pamper your vehicle (like I do) or indulge in high speed or high rev driving regularly. A good quality mineral oil will more than suffice. As an aside - because of the consistency in their service quality, professionalism and high focus on customer satisfaction I rate DSKT as the best service centre I have ever been to since the time I started driving over 31 years ago.

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Originally Posted by straight6 View Post
Question to the SX4 owners and the others too. Last time I got oil changed, only 4L went in and the level was showing right so the mechanic did not use the rest (300 ml). I thought maybe he did not drain the previous oil properly because of which this happened.
Now I have a friend who has an Automatic SX4 and he said only 4L is required as the oil filters have gotten smaller! I don't think the filter will make a difference of 300 ml. The manual shows 4.3L capacity. Next oil change I'll ask the mechanic to drain oil when the engines slightly cooled down. Any inputs on this?
Actually I am glad to read about a mechanic/tech who seems to use his brain and not just dump oil into the engine without giving much thought to the quantity being poured. Most cars retain about 200-500 ml of oil in the filter (this is car specific and can vary) so not to worry about that.

To check if oil is proper follow the procedure in the owners manual. Most car manufacturers suggest checking after about 2-3 minutes of running and the engine switched off. If coming back from a drive, switch off the engine and give it time (about 5 minutes) to drain back into the sump. Then check the level. If it's at MAX leave it well enough alone. If you need to add, then add approx 100 ml at a time, wait for a few minutes for the oil to travel down to the sump then check the level. Be patient.

Also, please do not drain the oil when the engine is cold..make sure it is at or near operating temp. It's important for the oil to "collect" the contaminants before being drained. Cold oil means the contaminants have time to settle in the sump and much will not be expelled when the oil is drained.

Last edited by R2D2 : 18th January 2016 at 17:50.
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Old 18th January 2016, 19:37   #4324
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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because of the consistency in their service quality, professionalism and high focus on customer satisfaction I rate DSKT as the best service centre I have ever been to since the time I started driving over 31 years ago.
I am close to 40 years of driving and I agree. DSK takes Toyota to another level. Not because they are flawless, they aren't; but how they recover from the occasional minor flaw is also exemplary.
The entire operation, down to billing, is a well choreographed dance and I am pretty sure they would rank in the ten best in the world class or some such.
In 2013 I bought the 1.5 litre petrol Liva from DSK Pune for at least a ten year use planned; I have no doubt it was a good choice.
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Old 20th January 2016, 08:37   #4325
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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I want oil change for my new Brio. I have decided to go for 10w30 Mineral or Semi Syn (NO full synthetic). Owners manual recommend SN rated oil. However I may go with this Mobil oil even though it is SJ rated.
Due to warranty considerations I will avoid an oil of a lower rating. I am surprised they are insisting on SN, are is that not a spec but recommendation. I think Castrol Magnatec amongst others is API-SN and a semi-synth.
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Old 20th January 2016, 12:30   #4326
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Due to warranty considerations I will avoid an oil of a lower rating.
+100

@aerohit - Please DO NOT experiment with engine oils especially when the car is under warranty. You'll be surprised at the kind of excuses dealers and mfrs employ to duck warranty claims. Stick to the dealer supplied OEM oil. After the warranty expires then select an oil (mineral will do just fine) that meets Honda's temperature/viscosityAPI classification requirements.
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Old 20th January 2016, 16:04   #4327
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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I am close to 40 years of driving and I agree. DSK takes Toyota to another level. Not because they are flawless, they aren't; but how they recover from the occasional minor flaw is also exemplary.
To give you an example, back in 2011 my car's bumper was inadvertently scratched during it's annual service. The scratch was deep which really upset me. I spoke to the Customer Relationship Manager & believe it or not, they painted the entire bumper free of cost. No arguments, no finger pointing. Now THAT'S what I call service and attention to CS. TKM sends random surveys via email in which I have rated them 10/10 twice in the past decade. The last service in Dec 15 was also ranked 10/10 by me. This feedback was given to the CRM team of DSKT who call a few days after the service to obtain feedback.
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The entire operation, down to billing, is a well choreographed dance and I am pretty sure they would rank in the ten best in the world class or some such.
They won the Best Dealer in the World award in the early 2000s. Here's the report: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...how/684239.cms Well over a decade since that award, their service levels have not slackened in any way and neither have they been resting on their laurels.

PS - They're one of the main reasons that I have been a repeat customer for Toyota. And will probably continue to be so in the future. After experiencing service levels like this very few dealers (Toyota or otherwise) would be able to meet my expectations.

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Old 20th January 2016, 17:38   #4328
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Due to warranty considerations I will avoid an oil of a lower rating. I am surprised they are insisting on SN, are is that not a spec but recommendation. I think Castrol Magnatec amongst others is API-SN and a semi-synth.
Sorry for the typo, the manual says SM not SN
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+100

@aerohit - Please DO NOT experiment with engine oils especially when the car is under warranty. You'll be surprised at the kind of excuses dealers and mfrs employ to duck warranty claims. Stick to the dealer supplied OEM oil. After the warranty expires then select an oil (mineral will do just fine) that meets Honda's temperature/viscosity API classification requirements.
I guess I will just ask the dealer if they can change it during first servicing then.
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Old 20th January 2016, 18:23   #4329
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Sorry for the typo, the manual says SM not SN I guess I will just ask the dealer if they can change it during first servicing then.
Based on my experience as a former Honda car owner the dealer will in all probability refuse to do so. And even if he does agree, please be aware that using any non-approved oil MAY lead to denial of any engine related (or other) warranty claims. I'd strongly suggest using Honda's OEM oil till the warranty expires.

Your call.
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Old 20th January 2016, 18:29   #4330
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Based on my experience as a former Honda car owner the dealer will in all probability refuse to do so. And even if he does agree, please be aware that using any non-approved oil MAY lead to denial of any engine related (or other) warranty claims. I'd strongly suggest using Honda's OEM oil till the warranty expires.
In my Civic I supplied my own Mobil1. I had to put a note on the service RQ to the effect Mobil 1 0W40 API/SN Synthetic superior to the Specification of API/SL supplied, then the GN Service permitted. Then I found the Honda-Idemitsu 0W30 Synth was cheaper so switched to that.

Two possible reasons for refusing, i. Some manufacturers expect a certain percentage of oil (was 80-85% on Hyundai at one time) to be sourced from the company (both dealer and manufacturer earn), and ii. there is a lot of fake oil in the market.

Last edited by sgiitk : 20th January 2016 at 18:32.
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Old 20th January 2016, 18:39   #4331
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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In my Civic I supplied my own Mobil1. I had to put a note on the service RQ to the effect Mobil 1 0W40 API/SN Synthetic superior to the Specification of API/SL supplied, then the GN Service permitted. Then I found the Honda-Idemitsu 0W30 Synth was cheaper so switched to that..
How is your experience with OEM synthetic v/s Mobil 1? I'd expect Mobil 1 to be superior. Or is there no discernible difference?

Toyota-Idemitsu also offer a synthetic 5W-40 oil at the dealer but I have stuck to Shell since my car was <1 year old. The reason I got the SA to agree to the Shell oil because it was the same grade as the OEM synthetic. And yes, he also noted it down on the service request form.

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Two possible reasons for refusing, i. Some manufacturers expect a certain percentage of oil (was 80-85% on Hyundai at one time) to be sourced from the company (both dealer and manufacturer earn), and ii. there is a lot of fake oil in the market.
Sir, frankly I think it's mostly driven by commercial considerations. They make a fat margin on spares and consumables.
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Old 21st January 2016, 09:51   #4332
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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How is your experience with OEM synthetic v/s Mobil 1? I'd expect Mobil 1 to be superior. Or is there no discernible difference?
No difference what soever. In fact come to think of it a SAE30 oil may be more fuel efficient that a SAE40 oil. It is very difficult to comment since the car was also running in at that time.
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Old 22nd January 2016, 12:31   #4333
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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No difference what soever. In fact come to think of it a SAE30 oil may be more fuel efficient that a SAE40 oil.
Yes I too concur that using the lowest possible approved viscosity for a given temperature range is best for fuel economy as it reduces viscous 'drag'.

I may try Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 at the next annual service that's due Nov/Dec 16.
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Old 22nd January 2016, 15:21   #4334
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

@R2D2; One problem with Mobil is to make sure you get the genuine stuff. Fakes are around. I remember when Castrol was probably the only non-sarkari oil around it was said that for every litre produced by them at least five were sold!! I used to get sealed 1l cans from Gwalior, where the distributor was known to us.
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Old 24th January 2016, 09:36   #4335
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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@R2D2; One problem with Mobil is to make sure you get the genuine stuff. Fakes are around. I remember when Castrol was probably the only non-sarkari oil around it was said that for every litre produced by them at least five were sold!! I used to get sealed 1l cans from Gwalior, where the distributor was known to us.
Yes, I recall going to trusted distributors/retailers to buy a can of Castrol GTX and Magnatec for our cars. One of the biggest drawbacks of using Castrol was the high chance of being sold a fake.

Shell Helix products are purchased directly from the distributor here in Pune. He does not stock Mobil products.

I will probably have to identify a trustworthy dealer for Mobil products. My car was serviced mid Dec '15 so there's a long time to go before the next service which gives me time to locate a good dealer/distributor. I will probably write in to Mobil India for the name & contact details.
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