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Old 8th November 2016, 10:12   #4546
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

So ok, additives - especially those claiming ceramic coating etc - are most likely voodoo. Do you favor using engine oil flushes, or is just draining your engine for say ten minutes more adequate to fully clean out old oil?
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Old 8th November 2016, 11:57   #4547
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by devarshi84 View Post
I have checked with Honda dealers in our city for this 0w-30 a couple of times. Nobody has an idea what I am talking about. Idemitsu 5w-30 is a standard synth fill though. I did a google and all 0w-30 honda in india posts lead me to your posts on different forums. Can you confirm once again if it is 0w-30?
I think 5W30 is a semi-synth. Please check on my thread

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...silver-15.html (Honda Civic V AT Alabaster Silver)

You will find multiple entries of invoices with 0W30 (Synth). I have also, checked the can twice. It was API-SM and not API-SN though.
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Old 8th November 2016, 12:04   #4548
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by hserus View Post
So ok, additives - especially those claiming ceramic coating etc - are most likely voodoo. Do you favor using engine oil flushes, or is just draining your engine for say ten minutes more adequate to fully clean out old oil?
I agree 100%. if you have a good oil then do not mess up the chemistry by mixing in your own stuff. I think the oil maker knows best! In my forty plus years of motoring have never added stuff, except once when I added Nulon to my Padmini and somehow broke the crankshaft within 1,000km. I guess that was bad luck. I always make sure I have an oil with a very good rating.
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Old 8th November 2016, 14:58   #4549
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post
Pardon me, but doesn't the car run cooler on highway runs, unless you are speaking of ghat road driving? I was under the impression that stop-and-go traffic in city conditions causes higher temperature and wear-and-tear on the engine.
In stop and go traffic its mostly the gearbox and clutch that takes the most hit. The engines are running at lower rpms only. On the highway the engine hits the higher rpms where the cooling system starts getting taxed. The wind and cooling system fights to keep the engine cool along with oil. Oil shearing starts at higher temps as the additive packs starts getting depleted.

And like somebody mentioned here, the real major wear and tear on the engine is during startup. A normal daily ride doesn't really need fully synthetic oils costing 4-5K per oil change.

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Originally Posted by hserus View Post
So ok, additives - especially those claiming ceramic coating etc - are most likely voodoo. Do you favor using engine oil flushes, or is just draining your engine for say ten minutes more adequate to fully clean out old oil?
Engine oil flushes help clean the engine. They are not additives. It is not advised on older engines as the seals are worn and the spaces around engine are filled with deposits retaining compression. Alternatively the blocked pipes are a problem and require cleaning.

I would suggest relying on good oil (all oils have detergents to clean the engine albeit in smaller amounts). Flushes do help in newer cars upto 100000 kms. Again if the said engine in question is known to have a sludge problem, I would want to use flush after every few oil changes.

Last edited by devarshi84 : 8th November 2016 at 15:00.
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Old 8th November 2016, 15:49   #4550
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
I think 5W30 is a semi-synth. Please check on my thread

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...silver-15.html (Honda Civic V AT Alabaster Silver)

You will find multiple entries of invoices with 0W30 (Synth). I have also, checked the can twice. It was API-SM and not API-SN though.
Just rechecked. No 0w-30. Only 0w-20 which costs 1200 per ltr. Dont' know if it has to do with the area served.
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Old 8th November 2016, 16:17   #4551
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Just rechecked. No 0w-30. Only 0w-20 which costs 1200 per ltr. Dont' know if it has to do with the area served.
Honda India is now also happy with 0W20. So you need not get worried.Go with it. 0W20 has been Ok in other countries incl the US for quite some years.
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Old 10th November 2016, 20:10   #4552
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

put this in my honda jazz. its semi synth and costs 1/3rd of idemitsu. i would want to assume the tech is shared with Idemitsu since they are made by the same company. its a group3 oil.

my splurge on Indian brands continues from Veedol to Savsol with good results
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Old 11th November 2016, 10:00   #4553
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Savita not only manufacture many Idemitsu oils, they also market them. This may be under their own label or of Idemitsu. I remember somewhere a post explaining the relationship of Idemitsu and Savita. I am unable to pick it out in a hurry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devarshi84 View Post
put this in my honda jazz. its semi synth and costs 1/3rd of idemitsu. i would want to assume the tech is shared with Idemitsu since they are made by the same company. its a group3 oil.

my splurge on Indian brands continues from Veedol to Savsol with good results
Good to see the 0W20 becoming API-SN. I used Mobil1 once but then decided that the extra cost does not justify using that in preference to the Honda oil. Also, SAE30 is be a bit more economical that API40. Now API 20 should be even better. My Civic goes in for its annual service later this month (waiting to get some cash to pay) and then I will see what I get.

Last edited by SDP : 12th November 2016 at 20:00. Reason: Merging back to back posts
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Old 11th November 2016, 12:16   #4554
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Savita not only manufacture many Idemitsu oils, they also market them. This may be under their own label or of Idemitsu. I remember somewhere a post explaining the relationship of Idemitsu and Savita. I am unable to pick it out in a hurry.
Yes. It's a similar relationship to GP and Repsol and Veedol and INEOS. They share the same facilities and raw oils. The only reason why I decided that this oil might be a good choice. I am little bit worried about the thin oil burning up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Good to see the 0W20 becoming API-SN. I used Mobil1 once but then decided that the extra cost does not justify using that in preference to the Honda oil. Also, SAE30 is be a bit more economical that API40. Now API 20 should be even better. My Civic goes in for its annual service later this month (waiting to get some cash to pay) and then I will see what I get.
I did not get this from Honda, it was from a local Savsol dealer. Cost me 1200/- for 3.5ltrs. The immidiate effect compared to 10w-30 Veedol were the complete lack of NVH in the cabin post a 30 kms drive. Instant FE went up by about 2.5kmpl.

Two things to note though. It seems to be self specified API SN and ILSAC GF5 based on Idemitsu Formulas. It is a semi synth based on Group III (which is not a bad thing in my opinion).

Last edited by devarshi84 : 11th November 2016 at 12:24.
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Old 12th November 2016, 00:51   #4555
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by devarshi84 View Post
I am little bit worried about the thin oil burning up.
I drive an R18 Civic in the middle east and the oil grade mentioned in the owner's manual is 5W40. The grade mentioned in the owner's manual pdf found online mentions 5W30.
I wonder why Indian Honda Civics are running 0W20.
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Old 12th November 2016, 09:03   #4556
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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I drive an R18 Civic in the middle east and the oil grade mentioned in the owner's manual is 5W40. The grade mentioned in the owner's manual pdf found online mentions 5W30.
I wonder why Indian Honda Civics are running 0W20.
There are various options incl the one you mentioned. My Civic came with (I think) 0W30 (synthetic) initially. This is why the first oil change was at six months and not three. So I have stuck with Synthetic ever since. As for 0W20 I was wondering, since the US Honda specified it on their site, and Arizona is probably hotter that anything in India. Must have been the reluctance of Honda India. I will see what they fill in my Civic later this month.

Last edited by sgiitk : 12th November 2016 at 09:04.
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Old 12th November 2016, 12:06   #4557
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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I drive an R18 Civic in the middle east and the oil grade mentioned in the owner's manual is 5W40. The grade mentioned in the owner's manual pdf found online mentions 5W30.
I wonder why Indian Honda Civics are running 0W20.
Honda dealer confirmed their use of 0w-20 Fully Synth Idemitsu. Also, now they have a Synth 0-20 too as the fully Synth is very expensive.

Even Maruti Suzuki uses 0w-20 to boost FE numbers on its cars. (shell hx8 and Servo MGO)

A vast range of 0w-20 oils are now available readily from Total, Servo, Savsol and others.

US auto car makers have jumped to 0w-20 (rumoured that all Jap brands use 0w-20 from Idemitsu in different formulations). But I wonder why Euro car makers are not jumping on the thinner oil train. The castrol Synthetic oil case is a classic example of why I don't want to follow the American Oil specs but European ones.

Also not to be forgotten is how We are following US fuel dilution system with Ethanol (5% for now but will soon be 10-15%) which is important for the kind of oil we use.
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Old 12th November 2016, 16:44   #4558
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Don't forget that fuel in india is often adulterated with things that are quite other than ethanol. Go to a village / highway fuel pump and you might find kerosene mixed into the fuel too.

Please correct me if I am wrong - The US oils will require a very clean and high quality fuel to be filled which I seriously doubt is going to be the case in India unless you fill Shell.
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Old 13th November 2016, 09:47   #4559
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Don't forget that fuel in india is often adulterated with things that are quite other than ethanol. Go to a village / highway fuel pump and you might find kerosene mixed into the fuel too.
... unless you fill Shell.
I think we have two endemic problems - Kerosene (or Naptha in petrol) and under measurement. I for one will take the latter as a lesser evil.

Shell is not there everywhere. RIL is often not there in cities. As Shell buys from IOC, it shows that adulteration often occurs in the retail end of the chain.
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Old 13th November 2016, 16:32   #4560
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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I think we have two endemic problems - Kerosene (or Naptha in petrol) and under measurement. I for one will take the latter as a lesser evil.

Shell is not there everywhere. RIL is often not there in cities. As Shell buys from IOC, it shows that adulteration often occurs in the retail end of the chain.
Theft during distribution (siphoning fuel from tanker trucks and adulterating there) is rampant as well, not just at the retail end of the chain.

Company owned / operated COCO outlets are fairly ok as a rule but not too general a rule. There's one such outlet near my apartment that doesn't have too good a reputation.
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