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Old 5th January 2017, 14:56   #4591
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by devarshi84 View Post
You can go for a 0w-20 MGO. They also have 5w-30 MGO. 0W-20 will help winter start ups leading to less wear. The thinner grade will also benefit Fuel Efficiency. Your engine may become more noisy.

Make sure you change the oil after 5000-7000kms (servo MGO) and 10000-12000kms (shell mgo - rumoured to be hx8).
There seems to be a Mobil MGO 0w20 too.

Just got the oil change done yesterday, and the invoice mentioned Mobil MGO 0w20.
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Old 5th January 2017, 15:06   #4592
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I found this Hot Rod Network article on synthetic oils quite informative:

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/truth...just-extra-hp/
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Old 5th January 2017, 16:42   #4593
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by devarshi84 View Post
You can go for a 0w-20 MGO. They also have 5w-30 MGO. 0W-20 will help winter start ups leading to less wear. The thinner grade will also benefit Fuel Efficiency. Your engine may become more noisy.

Make sure you change the oil after 5000-7000kms (servo MGO) and 10000-12000kms (shell mgo - rumoured to be hx8).

Thanks for the information. I'll go in for the cheaper oil (MGO) since the car runs less than 2,000 km a year. After reading, it seems that 0W20 can run well even in Indian weather. My only concern was the running in summer, when the temperatures rise to around 35-37 degrees in Bangalore.
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Old 3rd February 2017, 14:55   #4594
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Exclamation Suzuki service center has used the wrong oil for my wagonR...

Hi, couldn't find a regular small questions thread so posting here:

Had the 50K KM service done for my trusty '12 wagonr, decided to go in for synthetic oil this time; for the first time ever after the service I noticed it running much more effortlessly climbing out of mall basements on the second gear and I was really happy.

I just reread the owner's manual and 0w20 is the oil which has been recommended, checked the invoice and it mentions 0w40 (which I believe is more viscous than 5w30 which was in it earlier). I should have read up before going in for the service, i know.

The service was carried out at a magic auto authorised center in Delhi.

Now I have read all types of conflicting information on the interwebs... can anyone here please provide a definitive recommendation?

Thanks!
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Old 3rd February 2017, 15:47   #4595
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Default Re: Suzuki service center has used the wrong oil for my wagonR...

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Originally Posted by eternalck View Post
I just reread the owner's manual and 0w20 is the oil which has been recommended
Honestly, both 0w40 and 5w30 sound better for our Indian conditions than the 0w20 specified in the manual.

I wouldn't worry about it.

Here's a somewhat related thread too : link (Maruti Circular on Swift Engine Oil : Change from 15W40 to 5W40)
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Old 3rd February 2017, 18:33   #4596
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Default Re: Suzuki service center has used the wrong oil for my wagonR...

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalck View Post
Hi, couldn't find a regular small questions thread so posting here:

Had the 50K KM service done for my trusty '12 wagonr, decided to go in for synthetic oil this time; for the first time ever after the service I noticed it running much more effortlessly climbing out of mall basements on the second gear and I was really happy.

I just reread the owner's manual and 0w20 is the oil which has been recommended, checked the invoice and it mentions 0w40 (which I believe is more viscous than 5w30 which was in it earlier). I should have read up before going in for the service, i know.

The service was carried out at a magic auto authorised center in Delhi.

Now I have read all types of conflicting information on the interwebs... can anyone here please provide a definitive recommendation?

Thanks!
The same thing happened with me a week ago with my Baleno alpha petrol. I gave it for its 3rd service here in hyderabad with sai service maruti authorised centre. He, without informing me has used 5w30 instead of 0w20 recommend by Maruti Suzuki. After a week long episode, got it replaced with Shell 0w20 hx8 free of cost. Just now returned from service centre and to my surprise saw your post with you in my situation now. I just went with manual recommendations (that's my opinion) and now the ball is in your court. Hope my experience in this problem might help anyone.
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Old 3rd February 2017, 19:52   #4597
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Default Re: Suzuki service center has used the wrong oil for my wagonR...

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Originally Posted by rohiT Nonu View Post
The same thing happened with me a week ago with my Baleno alpha petrol. I gave it for its 3rd service here in hyderabad with sai service maruti authorised centre. He, without informing me has used 5w30 instead of 0w20 recommend by Maruti Suzuki. After a week long episode, got it replaced with Shell 0w20 hx8 free of cost. Just now returned from service centre and to my surprise saw your post with you in my situation now. I just went with manual recommendations (that's my opinion) and now the ball is in your court. Hope my experience in this problem might help anyone.
Well this coincidence makes me feel that it is all too common with maruti service centers. I think i am going to have it changed. I read up on the specifications of the oils and they are quite different, and with a middle aged engine I think I am going to go with what the company recommends.

I have so many memories with this car that I am probably never going to sell it anyways so why take unnecessary risks after spending so much money.. thanks for posting.
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Old 3rd February 2017, 20:23   #4598
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Default Re: Suzuki service center has used the wrong oil for my wagonR...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Honestly, both 0w40 and 5w30 sound better for our Indian conditions than the 0w20 specified in the manual.

I wouldn't worry about it.

Here's a somewhat related thread too : link (Maruti Circular on Swift Engine Oil : Change from 15W40 to 5W40)
Your advice stands sir (see second part of this reply for details). Thanks again!


Quote:
Originally Posted by rohiT Nonu View Post
The same thing happened with me a week ago with my Baleno alpha petrol. I gave it for its 3rd service here in hyderabad with sai service maruti authorised centre. He, without informing me has used 5w30 instead of 0w20 recommend by Maruti Suzuki. After a week long episode, got it replaced with Shell 0w20 hx8 free of cost. Just now returned from service centre and to my surprise saw your post with you in my situation now. I just went with manual recommendations (that's my opinion) and now the ball is in your court. Hope my experience in this problem might help anyone.
Seems i jumped the gun on this one, I had read the manual that they have available online, in the physical manual that I received with the car, 5w30 is the recommended one, with 10w40 displayed in the graph as well. So I guess i should be fine with 0w40.
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Old 3rd February 2017, 20:27   #4599
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Default Re: Suzuki service center has used the wrong oil for my wagonR...

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalck View Post

I just reread the owner's manual and 0w20 is the oil which has been recommended, checked the invoice and it mentions 0w40 (which I believe is more viscous than 5w30 which was in it earlier). I should have read up before going in for the service, i know.
Rehaan is correct 0w40 is better oil for our hot summers, synthetic means better spec. What is the oil code mentioned SE, SJ etc in the manual. Just ensure the synthetic is of higher spec or same (which am sure it is). Don't fret too much, nothing is going to go wrong. If the vehicle had a wet clutch and lubed by same oil, like in bikes it would have been worrisome. Not on a regular car.
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Old 3rd February 2017, 20:43   #4600
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Default Re: Suzuki service center has used the wrong oil for my wagonR...

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalck View Post

I just reread the owner's manual and 0w20 is the oil which has been recommended, checked the invoice and it mentions 0w40 (which I believe is more viscous than 5w30 which was in it earlier). I should have read up before going in for the service, i know.
!
The xxW is the winter grade for that oil and a quick and simple explanation is that the lower the reading - 0 for example - translates into better cold start performance in low temperatures. The latter number i.e. 20/30/40 etc indicates the level of viscosity at 100 degree C. Thus, a xx w 30 is thinner than a 40.

If your user manual recommends 5W30 for e.g, you are ok with any oil where the winter grade is 5 or below and the viscosity is 30 or above.

Last edited by hothatchaway : 3rd February 2017 at 20:44. Reason: typo
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Old 3rd February 2017, 20:55   #4601
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Default Re: Suzuki service center has used the wrong oil for my wagonR...

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Rehaan is correct 0w40 is better oil for our hot summers, synthetic means better spec. What is the oil code mentioned SE, SJ etc in the manual. Just ensure the synthetic is of higher spec or same (which am sure it is). Don't fret too much, nothing is going to go wrong. If the vehicle had a wet clutch and lubed by same oil, like in bikes it would have been worrisome. Not on a regular car.
I had read the manual online and that one had recommended the 0w20, in my physical manual which I just read it was 5w30 along with 10w40 displayed in a picture. I was concerned because I had never gave a thought to the oil being used in the car before and when i did and the apparent differences between the oils had me a bit overwhelmed .

I am now at ease though, only concern now is how the wheel alignment report states the same before and after angle values , I will have it checked again for free at the same service center, don't want to ruin my new michelins. Even when they deploy huge alignment machines with multiple lasers and what not, the operators leave much to be desired in this country.
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Old 3rd February 2017, 22:32   #4602
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Default Re: Suzuki service center has used the wrong oil for my wagonR...

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalck View Post

I had read the manual online and that one had recommended the 0w20, in my physical manual which I just read it was 5w30 along with 10w40 displayed in a picture. I was concerned because I had never gave a thought to the oil being used in the car before and when i did and the apparent differences between the oils had me a bit overwhelmed .
If my memory serves me right, MSIL recommended that all K-series engine have 0W-20 oil from earlier 5W-30. Even my 2010 K10 Wagon R CNG (factory fitted) now runs on 0W-20 oil.

This is one of the links I could browse upto.

My Wagon R is still running strong after 60,000 kms. and it seems engine has got life of another lakh or so kms.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 3rd February 2017 at 22:35.
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Old 3rd February 2017, 22:53   #4603
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Default Re: Suzuki service center has used the wrong oil for my wagonR...

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalck View Post
Hi, couldn't find a regular small questions thread so posting here:

Had the 50K KM service done for my trusty '12 wagonr, decided to go in for synthetic oil this time; for the first time ever after the service I noticed it running much more effortlessly climbing out of mall basements on the second gear and I was really happy.

I just reread the owner's manual and 0w20 is the oil which has been recommended, checked the invoice and it mentions 0w40 (which I believe is more viscous than 5w30 which was in it earlier). I should have read up before going in for the service, i know.

The service was carried out at a magic auto authorised center in Delhi.

Now I have read all types of conflicting information on the interwebs... can anyone here please provide a definitive recommendation?

Thanks!
Having spent 22 years in the lubricant sector nothing amazes me more than the kind of misconception that is still floating around both among the end users (car owners) and more often than not also the so called experts (the mechanics) all across, be it India or North America.

The kinematic viscosity of a 0W-20 oil is 8.3cSt* @100C where as it is 13cSt@100C for 0W-40. As you can see a 0W-40 formulation is much more (62.5%) viscous (thicker) than a 0W-20.

*cSt (Centistoke) - Unit of viscosity

Please also note that the operating temperature of your engine hovers in the vicinity of 100C.

The notion that thicker oil is better was never true but 30 years ago it was usually harmless. It isn’t harmless anymore and to understand why, one must understand the oil-to-engine relationship. First and foremost oil has to lubricate moving parts and to do that it must circulate between those parts. The moving parts inside engines are separated by tiny gaps continuously filled with oil. So, rather than rubbing against one another, engine parts move on a thin film of oil. If the oil film goes away due to inadequate “shear strength” or improper thickness, engine damage occurs in seconds.

Oil thickness (viscosity) is vital to engine protection. Oil viscosity recommendations are based on a number of factors, but one of the most critical is the clearance between moving parts. Before the age of computer-controlled machining tools there was a lot of space or uneven spaces between parts. But new CNC machines create parts that fit like the parts in a fine watch. This is about ten times more precise than machined parts of 20/30 years ago. As a necessary condition oil must fill the space between moving parts while simultaneously be able to circulate freely. With smaller, more precise spaces between parts, thinner oils do a better job of flowing freely through the engine while still filling the spaces. Thick oils can fill bigger gaps. That was desirable years ago when the gaps between parts were bigger, but big gaps are history. Thick oil without big gaps disrupts two flow characteristics; oil pressure and oil-flow volume.

Using thicker oil can mislead you into thinking it is better because it increases oil pressure. Higher oil pressure by itself is a good thing, but when it comes at the expense of oil-flow volume. Thicker oil is harder to push through the spaces between parts. This makes the oil pump work harder, which in turn increases oil pressure, but simultaneously decreases oil volume.Too thick oil will result in wonderful oil pressure, yet parts inside the engine could actually be starved for oil due to lowered volume being circulated.

Another down side of using thicker oil is that circulating oil accounts for nearly 50% of engine cooling, so reduced oil-flow reduces cooling causing lubricated parts to operate at higher temperatures. Higher parts temperatures mean more wear.

Too thick or too thin oils can both be bad for engines, but damage is neither immediate nor catastrophic; it just reduces overall engine life. Consider that using improper oil could reduce engine life by a conservative ten thousand kilometers.

And last but not the least this thicker viscosity oil also causes viscous drag and reduces your mileage as the moving parts inside the engine have to overcome the friction caused by the thicker oil.

The notion that a 0W-40 is better than 0W-20 for Indian conditions is also misplaced. Honda/Toyota (and increasingly most of the other OEMs) recommend 0W-20 for all their cars here in North America; the temperature in parts of Southern United States can get as high as 38/39C in summer which is similar to what you can get to in India.

If you’re concerned about the ability of mineral oil to handle the warmer temperatures please use a synthetic formulation within the same viscosity range as specified by the OEM.

Always use the oil within the viscosity range as recommended by the engine manufacturer. Believe it or not, the people who designed and built the engine know more than you and me.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by Vikram Arya : 3rd February 2017 at 23:05. Reason: Addition of content
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Old 3rd February 2017, 23:09   #4604
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Default Re: Suzuki service center has used the wrong oil for my wagonR...

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Originally Posted by Vikram Arya View Post

Always use the oil within the viscosity range as recommended by the engine manufacturer. Believe it or not, you don’t know more about oils than the people who designed and built the engine.

Hope this helps.
Thanks a lot for clearing out many myths. The base line which even I used to stick to was that-follow the manufacturer recommendations.

Things become difficult when ASC's start misleading people. Let's take a classic example of Suzuki K series 1.2L

Pre VVT engines needed 5w30 grade oil as mentioned in the owners manual, while current gen engines which have seen thermal loss improvements, and friction reduction(as claimed by the manufacturer) recommend 0w20. Things start turning ugly when ASC's stock only one grade engine oil and start using it universally. Heck, I have seen them using 0w20 on age old F series powered WagonR. When asked, they talk about some circular which has asked them to move to a newer grade oil. But what about the cars which have old engines?? They haven't undergone any changes to be able to take the lower viscosity oil.

What I have seen is that these circulars are mostly an excuse on ASC's part to escape from stocking multiple grades. In very few cases there is actually a circular from the manufacturer.

So its time, the owners should put their foot down and ask only for the recommended grade engine oil and not get tricked by these ASC guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
If my memory serves me right, MSIL recommended that all K-series engine have 0W-20 oil from earlier 5W-30. Even my 2010 K10 Wagon R CNG (factory fitted) now runs on 0W-20 oil.
In the link which you provided, its mentioned that this change is applicable for existing models manufactured after 2014. So I don't think running your 2010 WagonR on 0W20 is a good idea.

Quoting from the link
Quote:
Maruti Suzuki Cars Engine Oil
Maruti Suzuki India has done major Change in Service Schedule

Engine Oil Viscosity is Changed and Engine Oil recommended now is with Viscosity of 0W/20

Transmission Fluid is now having 1.6 Lakh Kms or 10 Yrs Replacement Interval in New Swift, Dzire vis a vis replacement at every 40000 Kms

All New Age KNext Engines in recent launches -

Hatch: New Alto K10 Facelift, Celerio, New Swift

Sedan: New Swift Dzire, Ciaz

including Existing Cars - Wagon R, Stingray (manufactured since 2014 onwards)

has recommendation of SAE 0W/20 Engine Oil.

Last edited by Leoshashi : 3rd February 2017 at 23:15.
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Old 3rd February 2017, 23:47   #4605
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Shell India have rebranded SHU 5W-40 to "Shell Helix HX8" and introduced SHU in a new viscosity 0W-40.

http://www.shell.in/motorists/oils-l...synthetic.html

EDIT: The SHU photo shows 0W-40 and spec sheet is 5W-40. They'll probably correct the error.

Last edited by R2D2 : 3rd February 2017 at 23:53.
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