Go Back   Team-BHP > Team-BHP > Team-BHP Advice > On modifying a car


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 13th November 2017, 13:31   #4786
Senior - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Punya Nagari
Posts: 1,858
Thanked: 1,092 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swapnil4585 View Post
R2, I put in the Shell oil suggested by you (Shell Helix HX8 5-40), and did a 400 km trip yesterday. I feel that the oil is a tad heavy as the car took more time than usual to accelerate and the fuel economy was down by 1-2 kilometres.
Frankly, if you had to use a Shell oil, you should have purchased Helix Ultra 5W-40 as I recommended. That's one oil I count on having used it for 8+ years now. Haven't tried HX8 yet, which if I go by Shell's literature, is a 2nd rung synthetic product.

What oil were you using before the change? If it was 5W-30 then you will feel the difference when you shift to heavier oils.

As for the fuel economy, a change of 1-2 kmpl seems a bit high. What were your fuel economy readings before and after the oil change? I assume your observations are with the same # of passengers and luggage. I get about 14.4-14.7 on the highway with AC on and at speeds between 120-130 kmph and 1 passenger with moderate amount of luggage. If I restrict road speed to 80-100 kmph then the car delivers 15-15.7 kmpl.

Last edited by R2D2 : 13th November 2017 at 13:37. Reason: typo
R2D2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15th November 2017, 17:47   #4787
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Jalgaon
Posts: 243
Thanked: 141 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
What oil were you using before the change? If it was 5W-30 then you will feel the difference when you shift to heavier oils.
Sorry, I misread your post and got the HX8 instead of HX5. I used to use a 5W30 grade earlier. Hence the difference may be. However I could not source oil and air filters for replacement, hence put the old oil filter and air filter after cleaning them. I hope that things might improve after this oil gets a bit older. There are two very long trips scheduled in the coming week, in one of which, I can drive her past 100 kph.

Quote:
As for the fuel economy, a change of 1-2 kmpl seems a bit high. What were your fuel economy readings before and after the oil change? I assume your observations are with the same # of passengers and luggage.
Yes. Same number of passengers and luggage. Earlier I used to achieve an economy in the ballpark of 14-16 with 5 people on board (speeds up to 80). This recent trip, it was around 12, I think.
Swapnil4585 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th November 2017, 18:01   #4788
Senior - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Punya Nagari
Posts: 1,858
Thanked: 1,092 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swapnil4585 View Post
Sorry, I misread your post and got the HX8 instead of HX5. I used to use a 5W30 grade earlier. Hence the difference may be. However I could not source oil and air filters for replacement, hence put the old oil filter and air filter after cleaning them. I hope that things might improve after this oil gets a bit older. There are two very long trips scheduled in the coming week, in one of which, I can drive her past 100 kph.
Shell Helix HX8 is better than HX5 in the sense it is synthetic vs mineral So you're ok.

BTW, it's ok to clean an air filter using compressed air to blow out the dust in the reverse direction of the air intake flow.

But reusing an oil filter isn't a good idea because there's no way those oil soaked pleats can be cleaned. Please avoid reuse. Even an oil filter has a limited life.

If you couldn't get your hands on Denso/OEM filters you could have purchased Bosch or Puralator available at Amazon India and surely at auto spare shops in Jalgaon. A fresh oil filter makes all the difference to an oil change.

Quote:
Yes. Same number of passengers and luggage. Earlier I used to achieve an economy in the ballpark of 14-16 with 5 people on board (speeds up to 80). This recent trip, it was around 12, I think.
This is low for a highway run. I get much better mileage as mentioned in my previous post. Maybe you need to take your car for a check up at Toyota's ASC?

I'm taking my car for a tranny oil change tomorrow - Liqui Moly synthetic GL4+/GL5 lube 85W-90. Shall report back on the change. The annual service is scheduled at the ASC end Dec 17.

Last edited by R2D2 : 15th November 2017 at 18:03.
R2D2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15th November 2017, 18:27   #4789
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Jalgaon
Posts: 243
Thanked: 141 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Shell Helix HX8 is better than HX5 in the sense it is synthetic vs mineral So you're ok.

BTW, it's ok to clean an air filter using compressed air to blow out the dust in the reverse direction of the air intake flow.

But reusing an oil filter isn't a good idea because there's no way those oil soaked pleats can be cleaned. Please avoid reuse. Even an oil filter has a limited life.

If you couldn't get your hands on Denso/OEM filters you could have purchased Bosch or Puralator available at Amazon India and surely at auto spare shops in Jalgaon. A fresh oil filter makes all the difference to an oil change.
What I mean to say is, can a heavier oil cause a reduction in performance (top end) and fuel economy? Considering the ambient temperatures are around 12-13 degrees?

Quote:
This is low for a highway run. I get much better mileage as mentioned in my previous post. Maybe you need to take your car for a check up at Toyota's ASC?

I'm taking my car for a tranny oil change tomorrow - Liqui Moly synthetic GL4+/GL5 lube 85W-90. Shall report back on the change. The annual service is scheduled at the ASC end Dec 17.
What do you think may be wrong with the car? I shouldn't be saying this so proudly, but when the air filter housing was opened, we discovered a torn 50/- rupee note, a newspaper supplement and some tree leaves in the filter housing. The filter was pressure cleaned, the debris was removed and the filter was put back.

Even after having so much dirt in the a/f, the fuel economy prior to the oil change was good. I am pinning it to the ultra heavy oil. Don't find any other reason.
Swapnil4585 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th November 2017, 19:02   #4790
Senior - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Punya Nagari
Posts: 1,858
Thanked: 1,092 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swapnil4585 View Post
What I mean to say is, can a heavier oil cause a reduction in performance (top end) and fuel economy? Considering the ambient temperatures are around 12-13 degrees?
Yes, a heavier oil can cause a 'viscous drag' on the engine so you may find the engine revving less freely and a slightly lower fuel economy. It's a trade off for better engine protection under high temps and highway speeds. But a drop of 2 kmpl only due to the oil is unlikely. I'd expect a drop of about 0.5-1 kmpl maximum here with all other parameters being the same.

Quote:
What do you think may be wrong with the car? I shouldn't be saying this so proudly, but when the air filter housing was opened, we discovered a torn 50/- rupee note, a newspaper supplement and some tree leaves in the filter housing. The filter was pressure cleaned, the debris was removed and the filter was put back.
Wow! That's some detritus in the AF housing! How frequently is your car serviced and what's your annual mileage? The recommended interval is 10K kms or 1 year which is earlier.

The first thing I'd recommend you do is change the air filter with an original Denso part which will be availble at your ASC. The old filter is probably past its service life of 40K kms. And remember, this 40K km life is provided the AF is cleaned regularly every year during the annual service.

And please replace the oil filter too. It is a MUST during an oil change. You really don't want sludge formation. It can cause serious damage to the 1ZZ-FE engine.

Other than that do check your tyre pressure, brakes and hand brake lever for any binding. I assume the fuel quality is good i.e. unadulterated.

Quote:
Even after having so much dirt in the a/f, the fuel economy prior to the oil change was good. I am pinning it to the ultra heavy oil. Don't find any other reason.
Swapnil, a 5W-40 synthetic is anything but ultra heavy. Changing from a 30 to a 40 grade is not a big change. Heavy is a term I'd reserve for engine oils over SAE 50/60.

I used the same 5W-40 viscosity oil in my car for 8+ years and get the mileage mentioned earlier. Believe me, the reason for a sharp drop in the FE is not the oil.

Last edited by R2D2 : 15th November 2017 at 19:03.
R2D2 is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2017, 10:51   #4791
BHPian
 
Nonstop-driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Noida
Posts: 451
Thanked: 422 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Cross-posting my query from the other thread.

My Creta Diesel AT is due for its second service. I plan to switch to synthetic oil in the future, but is it too soon to shift now?
Also if I do, do I need to flush the engine?
Nonstop-driver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2017, 11:07   #4792
BHPian
 
rambo1o1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Goa
Posts: 443
Thanked: 214 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonstop-driver View Post
Cross-posting my query from the other thread.

My Creta Diesel AT is due for its second service. I plan to switch to synthetic oil in the future, but is it too soon to shift now?
Also if I do, do I need to flush the engine?
I had shifted to full synthetic ( mobile delvac 1) for my ciaz at 20k km. It's always better to shift to synthetic earlier rather than later. Also There is no need for engine flush.
Just drain all the old oil and add in the new.
Btw which oil do you have in mind?

I would recommend mobile delvac 1 but others like Shell ultra and total quartz/ motul are equally good. Try and skip the Castrol brand.

Regards
rambo1o1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2017, 11:21   #4793
BHPian
 
Nonstop-driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Noida
Posts: 451
Thanked: 422 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo1o1 View Post
Btw which oil do you have in mind?

I would recommend mobile delvac 1 but others like Shell ultra and total quartz/ motul are equally good. Try and skip the Castrol brand.
Thank you, the flush was my primary concern. Hyundai ASC sells Shell Helix Ultra 5W 30 though they recommend SAE 15 W 40 on their website. I'm concerned if 5W 30 is too light for North Indian summer.
Nonstop-driver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2017, 13:46   #4794
BHPian
 
naturaldisaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Noida
Posts: 210
Thanked: 56 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo1o1 View Post
I had shifted to full synthetic ( mobile delvac 1) for my ciaz at 20k km. It's always better to shift to synthetic earlier rather than later. Also There is no need for engine flush.
Just drain all the old oil and add in the new.
Btw which oil do you have in mind?

I would recommend mobile delvac 1 but others like Shell ultra and total quartz/ motul are equally good. Try and skip the Castrol brand.

Regards
Actually i would say that 20k is a bit early. I would wait till at least 30k for 'complete run' in to happen, after which 'long life giving' synthetic oils would be of advantage. Also, is engine flush not needed in newer motors? AFAIK, flush is a good for when shifting from mineral to synthetic.
naturaldisaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2017, 14:18   #4795
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 7,139
Thanked: 3,735 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonstop-driver View Post

My Creta Diesel AT is due for its second service. I plan to switch to synthetic oil in the future, but is it too soon to shift now?
Also if I do, do I need to flush the engine?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo1o1 View Post
I had shifted to full synthetic ( mobile delvac 1) for my ciaz at 20k km. It's always better to shift to synthetic earlier rather than later. Also There is no need for engine flush.
Just drain all the old oil and add in the new.
Btw which oil do you have in mind?
I used to be a member to 20,000 km club before going synth. However, my Civic came with Synth as the original fill, so I switched at than time itself. Frankly I did not bother with my Brio. I check with Guru and his comment was, 'Modern engines are so well made, that it does not matter'.
sgiitk is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2017, 16:06   #4796
Senior - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Punya Nagari
Posts: 1,858
Thanked: 1,092 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by naturaldisaster View Post
Actually i would say that 20k is a bit early. I would wait till at least 30k for 'complete run' in to happen, after which 'long life giving' synthetic oils would be of advantage. Also, is engine flush not needed in newer motors? AFAIK, flush is a good for when shifting from mineral to synthetic.
There's no need to follow the process of so called running in which is one of the many myths that continue to float around the use of synthetics. Also, flush is used when there is suspected sludge accumalation which happens due to infrequent and/or irregular oil changes among other reasons. Do not use a flush until absolutely required.

More and more cars come with synthetics filled from the factory. I changed over to synthetic when the car had done about 3-4K kms and continue to use only synthetic oils. The engine couldn't be happier even today.
R2D2 is online now   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2017, 21:55   #4797
Senior - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Punya Nagari
Posts: 1,858
Thanked: 1,092 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
I'm taking my car for a tranny oil change tomorrow - Liqui Moly synthetic GL4+/GL5 lube 85W-90.
Well, this service was done, as a DIY by yours truly, with help from 2 youngsters/apprentices at a FNG. You see, my back ain't as cooperative and flexible as it used to be. The boys were quite amazed to see me get my hands dirty telling them what to do. It ain't a normal sight according to them. Got some grease and oil stains on my shirt and jeans. But nothing like getting your hands dirty. You build that 'bond' with your car.

The 9 year old factory filled GB oil had turned dark as expected but we ran into an unexpected problem. The LM bottles with plastic extendable pipes/spouts couldn't be turned upright in the confines of the engine bay which would help drain all the oil. I borrowed a scooter and visited the nearest hardware store to buy 1.5 meters of 1/2" clear plastic pipe and a small funnel. Came back and completed the oil change. I need to keep an eye on the GB for any leaks.

It took about 1.7-1.8L to fill the GB (1.9L reference capacity) with the balance comprised of the OEM oil 'dead stock'. About 100-150 ml of new oil went waste in the form of drips and leaks whilst filling.

The old press-in clips that hold the plastic undercladding in place had turned brittle with age and snapped when removed. I need to buy new ones. Hopefully the ASC should do the needful when the car visits them next month.

Now, the tyres hit the tarmac - any difference compared to the OEM oil? Yes, just a little smoother but you'd need to know your car very well to discern the difference. Just goes to show how good the OEM GB oil really is. No wonder Toyota says the GB oil does not need replacement! All in all the 5 speed C59 tranny is set for another 200K kms of running.
R2D2 is online now   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th November 2017, 11:00   #4798
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Jalgaon
Posts: 243
Thanked: 141 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Wow! That's some detritus in the AF housing! How frequently is your car serviced and what's your annual mileage? The recommended interval is 10K kms or 1 year which is earlier.
I have purchased this car earlier this year, second hand. Its 90000 kilometer service was done at Toyota. When I purchased, the reading was at 91340 kilometers.

I think the reason for this air filter debris is that I had got my clutch kit replaced in between the 90000 and 100000 kilometer service, for which the car had to be kept at a service center (not my regular FNG) for 3 days. This may have happened then. I could not source Denso air filter and oil filter from our Toyota service center, when I changed the oil. However now I have received the same and shall be changing it tomorrow.

My car's annual running will be around 14-15000 kilometers. The car runs only on highways. No city commutes whatsoever. It's a beautiful car and shall be maintained religiously
Swapnil4585 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th November 2017, 11:26   #4799
Senior - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Punya Nagari
Posts: 1,858
Thanked: 1,092 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swapnil4585 View Post
I think the reason for this air filter debris is that I had got my clutch kit replaced in between the 90000 and 100000 kilometer service, for which the car had to be kept at a service center (not my regular FNG) for 3 days. This may have happened then. I could not source Denso air filter and oil filter from our Toyota service center, when I changed the oil. However now I have received the same and shall be changing it tomorrow.
Hmm, it's unlikely the air box got that much debris inside it in just 3 days. It points to less than optimal maintenance schedule followed by the previous owner. But not to fret Toyotas are built to take punishment.

Quote:
My car's annual running will be around 14-15000 kilometers. The car runs only on highways. No city commutes whatsoever. It's a beautiful car and shall be maintained religiously
Ah nothing like highway runs to keep that engine nice and healthy. Your clutch plate will also last longer. As a long time Corolla/Altis owner (11 years 9 months with 2 cars) here's what I suggest:

a) The 1ZZ-FE engine appreciates good quality engine oil (mineral will do) and regular oil changes with a nice new oil filter. Sludge formation will mess it up. If you use the car for highway runs a 5W-40 synthetic is highly recommended. A 5W-30 synthetic is good for better fuel efficiency.

b) Brakes - in the manual transmission model the rear pads last about 18-25K kms, the front ones last for about 40K-50 kms depending on your driving and braking style. I'd suggest buying OEM pads or Bosch brake pads. Bosch is also an OEM brake system supplier to TKM.

c) Gearbox - Change the oil at the dealership or a good FNG with OEM oil. My experience with the GB oil change (Post below) says it's certainly not an owner level service.

d) Air and oil filter - ONLY Denso. Trust me, Purolator and Bosch in India are cheaply built by comparison but cost less.

e) Wheel alignment - Every 5K-7K kms if you are particular or during the annual 10K km service. Recommended tyres? Michelin XM2, Michelin Primacy P3ST, Bridgestone Turanzas or Yokohama AVS DB. Don't upsize, it's not necessary. Tyres make a difference to ride comfort, handling and braking. This car is meant to transport people in comfort so treat it to the correct type of tyres. Check the Tyres thread on TBHP for more info.

f) Brake oil replacement - Since you're in Jalgaon a flush & refill every 2-3 years will do. The car has ABS so this service is best done by the ASC. You will feel the diffence in clutch pedal and braking operations after a brake fluid change

g) Follow the maintenance regime specified in the manual for all other functional parts.

h) Body and paint - An annual detailing session is suggested if available in your city.

Last edited by R2D2 : 17th November 2017 at 11:27.
R2D2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Where to buy Mobil1 / Castrol Synthetic Oil in Mumbai? Max Shifting gears 27 14th June 2015 23:41
Synthetic Oil in Bangalore epyupc Modifications & Accessories 49 29th May 2015 15:03
Oil change..Synthetic, where to source DRC Technical Stuff 21 2nd December 2007 15:00
Synthetic Oil karthik247 Technical Stuff 10 8th November 2005 18:02


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 10:19.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks