ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

[theMAG]

Originally Posted by ram

Well some words of motherhood precipitate from reading the foregoing and the references.


While the slick-talking marketers continue to try to peddle their slick synthetics to you ...

Ram

I feel, and I reiterate this from Team-BHP's integrity PoV, any topics particularly under the Advice section should refrain from explicitly using any one brand/manufacturer name as an illustration of a point. It is OK to dwelve into the tech-specs extensively, briefly mention the meritorious brand names in a vertical, and stop at that. The reader of an open community should be empowered to decide independantly without subconsciously gravitating to any one brand due to its extensive mention.

The last thing an illustrious forum like Team-BHP needs is for members to start having second thoughts about the intentions on the forum. And, once again, I have stated this as a Team-BHPian looking out for the well-being of this great community.

And, my read of Ram's first statement, is probably a sense of ownership about possibly a similar article having been potentially authored by him before. Oh well, here I go again shooting off my mouth


Apologize for this being off-topic.

[jat]

............gas turbine engines.
Engines that run at 50,000 rpm. The exhaust from a gas turbine is hot enough to roast a motorcyclist behind you.......

.

OT and no offence meant.

Industrial gas turbines do not run at 50,000 rpm (they may be running at about 6000~15000 - depending on their size and use) and their exhaust temperature is less than the exhaust of motorcyle (they try to utilise max heat energy - at the level of motorcyle, the cost to utilise the heat is does not justify the designs). But, yes, the amount of gas coming out of a gas turbine can definetely roast anybody in the way. So do the exhaust of other engines. (The largest diesel engine as mentioned by GTO on some other thread consumes about 700 tonnes of air in an hour!!)

[DRC]

Instead of drawing conclusions I would prefer to keep an eye on the info flowing here..

Yes, If your car is a mere tools to commute to your work, no need to use any of the perfomance add ons including the synthetic oil. But could be different for the one who enjoys the pleasure of driving. There are options for every one, and many of them.

Ram, I still feel with all the respect to your experience, therer are better ways to put across your opinions in a public forum.

With this I feel we should get back to the core discussion.

[NIP]

Originally Posted by jat

And one more thing - if you wan't to go back to mineral oil after using synthetics, you can do so comfortably. Only thing is that you flush the system with mineral oil thoroughly, otherwise you will land in trouble - because synthetics and mineral are not compatible, they form a sludge type thing when mixed. Vice versa, when you are changing over to synthetic, better flush with a synthetic oil or compatible flush, if available.

hey jat...are you sure about this !? here's what i read on GTOs link posted earlier (mods sorry for reposting):

If you do decide to change, only go up the scale. If you've been running around on synthetic, don't change down to a mineral-based oil - your engine might not be able to cope with the degradation in lubrication. Consequently, if you've been using mineral oil, try a semi or a full synthetic oil. By degradation, I'm speaking of the wear tolerances that an engine develops based on the oil that it's using. Thicker mineral oils mean thicker layers of oil coating the moving parts (by microns though). Switching to a thinner synthetic oil can cause piston rings to leak and in some very rare cases, piston slap or crank vibration.

i really need to know if i can switch back to mineral oil safely.

[nitrous]

i really need to know if i can switch back to mineral oil safely.

Logically,if u flush the engine properly, then u can downgrade to mineral oil.

[Ram]

Originally Posted by NIP

hey jat...are you sure about this !? here's what i read on GTOs link posted earlier (mods sorry for reposting):

If you do decide to change, only go up the scale. If you've been running around on synthetic, don't change down to a mineral-based oil - your engine might not be able to cope with the degradation in lubrication. Consequently, if you've been using mineral oil, try a semi or a full synthetic oil. By degradation, I'm speaking of the wear tolerances that an engine develops based on the oil that it's using. Thicker mineral oils mean thicker layers of oil coating the moving parts (by microns though). Switching to a thinner synthetic oil can cause piston rings to leak and in some very rare cases, piston slap or crank vibration.

i really need to know if i can switch back to mineral oil safely.

That quote is verbatim from:
http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

Do read the entire document. It makes interesting reading.

Mixing Mineral and Synthetic oils - the old and busted concepts

For the longest time, I had this to say about mixing mineral and synthetic oils:

• If you've been driving around with mineral oil in your engine for years, don't switch to synthetic oil without preparation. Synthetic oils have been known to dislodge the baked-on deposits from mineral oils and leave them floating around your engine - not good. I learned this lesson the hard way! It's wise to use a flushing oil first.

• If you do decide to change, only go up the scale. If you've been running around on synthetic, don't change down to a mineral-based oil - your engine might not be able to cope with the degradation in lubrication. Consequently, if you've been using mineral oil, try a semi or a full synthetic oil. By degradation, I'm speaking of the wear tolerances that an engine develops based on the oil that it's using. Thicker mineral oils mean thicker layers of oil coating the moving parts (by microns though). Switching to a thinner synthetic oil can cause piston rings to leak and in some very rare cases, piston slap or crank vibration.

• Gaskets and seals! With the makeup of synthetic oils being different from mineral oils, mineral-oil-soaked gaskets and seals have been known to leak when exposed to synthetic oils. Perhaps not that common an occurrence, but worth bearing in mind nevertheless.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by NIP

i really need to know if i can switch back to mineral oil safely.

No need to break your head over this. Flush engine (flushing is never bad!) and change back.

[adityapd]

Originally Posted by hyper-VTEC

This means that basically for the average user it is NOT necessary. Thanks i would re-fill with Castrol GTX. Thanks everyone.

I think we have had enough discussions on the synthetic v/s mineral debate ( like a never ending story) and also touched upon a couple of brands of synthetic oil....

Can some one throw some light on some of the well known and reputed brands of mineral oil too ?

Just changed my oil to servo yesterday for my esteem ( since its been recommended by maruti and comes factoru filled - that's what they claim)

Is servo better than castrol or any other mineral oil available in the market ?

what are your views ?

~A

[nitrous]

Originally Posted by adityapd

I think we have had enough discussions on the synthetic v/s mineral debate ( like a never ending story) and also touched upon a couple of brands of synthetic oil....
Can some one throw some light on some of the well known and reputed brands of mineral oil too ?

Is servo better than castrol or any other mineral oil available in the market ?
~A

In my experience,Lubricants are like fuel.
Whether u get it from Shell or HP or BP or IOC, they all serve just one purpose and its really really tough to compare & judge.
Its only when u shift from mineral oil to semi-synthetic or synthetic that u can FEEL the difference.

[maxbhp]

Let me share my personal experience

I have been hearing a lot about this Synthetic-Organic Oil pros and cons and in the begining I was thinking like Ram , no offense ...

Am a business man so obviously I always thought it was another marketing trick , just a luxury than a necessity though the former still holds true to a degree.

Finally I decided to go for synthetic....The engine may get a bit better..I was relying on hope than outright expereince or information to back my decision.

Had to zero in on VAlvoline the reason being those were the only one service outlet had in stock . They flushed the engine thrice to get rid of the carbon deposits...thats what they told me ...

Starting the engine for the first time(by me , the servicing guys had run the car for around 3kms) , there was hardly any difference I could really feel.I was a bit disappointed . Later I felt the engine was getting a bit smoother

Now after driving for 2600kms I feel engine is a reving a bit smoother and temperature is well contained .
Have a habit of driving the engine a bit hard coz I enjoy driving that way . Temperature thing is just a casual observation , had started a thread too for it...any way I have decided to go the synthetic way ...

[navin]

Originally Posted by Debasischatterj

Nevertheless,this is a free forum and the initiative by GTO on this topic is definitely very encouraging.At least,it gives us a chance to discuss the topic freely.Regards,

My primary argument was that Ram had spoken about something he had (by his own admission) not tried. I have used both oils and find that just that fact that I can change my oil less often (time saved) is worth the price difference.

Does one need so much protection? Probably no.
Does one need a 100+ bhp car in Mumbai? Probably no.
Does one need more than 6 shirsts in one's closet. Probably no.

Usually one does not buy what he/she needs but what he/she wants.

BTW I am not a good googler but still found a few links that recommend synthetics.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/synthetic_motor_oil.htm
http://bestsyntheticoil.com/amsoil/whysynthetics.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil

[Debasischatterj]

Dear Navin,
Yes,you have very rightly approached the topic of need versus want.As a customer one could probably control one's want for synthetics and respond to his need for mineral oil as he did not have any credible evidence of superiority of synthetic oil over mineral oil in terms of cost benefit analysis.And probably,he might not want to experiment with his hard-earned money.Since you have experienced the superiority of synthetics now one might try the same during next oil change.
Another interesting fact to share with the forum members.I have my friend working for one of the oil major.He says all the oil companies earn thier profit margins from the lubes as the bottomline is very thin for the fuel oils, adding just the turnover.Therefore the AD budget for the lubes always forms the major chunk of promotional expenditures.I mean the marketing effort(converting the need to want) for the lubes is always a priority for the oil majors.
Thanks for sharing the links.Regards,

[finneyp]

It is just a simple case where people have a choice to buy Normal petrol or Speel petrol. Mostly the young crowd, who are eager to enhance their car's performance, mileage and long run will go for the Speed while the rest is content with Normal petrol.
Ditto the same case with Mineral Oil vs Synthetic Oil.

[adityapd]

well gentleman my question still remains....

Originally Posted by adityapd

Can some one throw some light on some of the well known and reputed brands of mineral oil too ?


~A

[viper]

Originally Posted by adityapd

well gentleman my question still remains....

Hi,

Shell, Castrol, Penzzoil, IBP, Mobil, Valvoline, Elf. These are some of the good brands of Mineral Oil sold in India not all.

Viper