ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by Raccoon

R2D2, thats why I said 5W40 should be safe enough for your car... anyway its upto you.

And I dont know why you guys are so concerned about the warranty. Do you think you dealer will send a sample of your used engine oil for oil analysis? Lol... Its not at all easy to make out which oil is in the crankase... esp. after it is used a bit! So you know best what to say...

No doubt I am being overly cautious. And hey guess what? It probably paid off. At one point in time I was tempted to change the previous car's engine oil to Mobil/Castrol between the 1st and 2nd services (service interval was 1 year). Glad I thought of checking the oil because the factory recommended 'genuine' oil is blue in colour and Castrol/Mobil are golden yellow. The change to an aftermarket oil would have been obvious.

Anyway, as someone else said, I think in the end the owner has to decide what is right for him.

[nitrous]

Originally Posted by raccoon

Now a real synthetic inherently is thermally far more stable... it shouldnt thin out beyond its specification. So then why not use a 5w40 if thats what is recommended(fully synth)?? I REALLY doubt that an xW40 synth oil will thin out and not provide enuf lubrication, even in track situations...

Isn't that why even synthetic oils have grades?
While I agree to the fact that mineral oil would just break down and "die" at above specified operating temperature(considering ambient too) and give as much lubrication as water, synthetics aren't invincible.
Yes, synthetics perform better than mineral oil,but the temperature affects the lubrication efficiency.
Thus, reducing its protection level for the engine. So, high revvs with synthetic at above the ambient temperatures specified is going to increase wear and tear since the synthetic oil is not in its "comfort zone"

Originally Posted by raccoon

this engine damage on track+summber that you are talking about... did it happen when using a true synthetic?? I suspect it must have been dino oil... or not a true synth at least.

No,man. I haven't had any issues on the track since I take every feedback I can from the vehicle and believe me track is an engine oil's nightmare. A beginner would forget the number of times he'd hit the rev limiter.

[Atlblkz06]

I'm concerned that some of you guys are saying things like "5W50 is superior to 5W40. Which is why its always more expensive than 5W40."

NO! 5W50 IS NOT "superior" to 5W40. Its simply indicates that the oils act like 50 and 40 wt oils at operating temperature though their viscosity is the same when cold.

You need to match the oil weight to your car's oiling system. If your oil weight is too high, your oil pump will have to work harder to maintain oil pressure. If your oil weight is too low, the oil may not lubricate well enough which can lead to engine failure.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by Atlblkz06

I'm concerned that some of you guys are saying things like "5W50 is superior to 5W40. Which is why its always more expensive than 5W40."

NO! 5W50 IS NOT "superior" to 5W40. Its simply indicates that the oils act like 50 and 40 wt oils at operating temperature though their viscosity is the same when cold.

You need to match the oil weight to your car's oiling system. If your oil weight is too high, your oil pump will have to work harder to maintain oil pressure. If your oil weight is too low, the oil may not lubricate well enough which can lead to engine failure.

Absolutely.

Follow manufacturer's recommended grades and do not go by what the retailers tell you. At Rs 800/- or about US$16 a litre, synth is about 5x the price of normal multigrade mineral or semi synth oil with the same drain intervals as normal engine oil unless it is specifically labelled as extended drain.

Keep the price in mind and decide whether the cost/benefit ratio suits you. We in India get ripped off on synth pricing. I read somewhere that Shell Helix Ultra is Rs 1000+ per litre. Good grief!! What are these oil companies thinking?!

Cheers!

[K a s h]

Originally Posted by Atlblkz06

You need to match the oil weight to your car's oiling system. If your oil weight is too high, your oil pump will have to work harder to maintain oil pressure. If your oil weight is too low, the oil may not lubricate well enough which can lead to engine failure.

Ahem.. I think you meant "Winter" viscosity grade and not "Weight".

Found the following from Wikipedia;
The SAE designation for multi-grade oils includes two grade numbers; for example, 10W-30 designates a common multi-grade oil. Historically, the first number associated with the W (again 'W' is for Winter, not Weight) is not rated at any single temperature.
a) The "10W" means that this oil can be pumped by your engine as well as a single-grade SAE 10 oil can be pumped. "5W" can be pumped at a lower temperature than "10W" and "0W" can be pumped at a lower temperature than "5W".
b) The second number, 30, means that the viscosity of this multi-grade oil at 100°C (212°F) operating temperature corresponds to the viscosity of a single-grade 30 oil at same temperature.

[Atlblkz06]

I wasn't talking about that. I meant weight, and by weight I was talking about the thickness/viscosity. The oil you're using should match your engine's specs. Thick oil is not "superior" to thin oil - that was my point.

The winter viscosity of the oil when cold is denoted by the W as you indicated, but I'd be more concerned with the second number since that's what the engine has to contend with when running.

Originally Posted by K a s h

Ahem.. I think you meant "Winter" viscosity grade and not "Weight".

[sgiitk]

Incidentally Esso Uniflo 5W50 in the 70's was not a synthetic oil. One negative point if you use an oil topping out at SAE50 if SAE40 would do. The oil with be thicker than required - the more viscous it is, the more is the friction, and hence a higher fuel consumption (at least in principle).

[sunsetorange]

Originally Posted by R2D2

Amsoil?! Interesting...where did you buy this from? To my knowledge this isnt available in India. Was it a grey market can?

Regards,
R2D2

The craze for cars is something we(me n my bros) inherit from our dad. Dad goes to any length to get the best things for his cars(Merc 300D, E420 among others). He gets it from his friend who imports these oils in big barrels. Dad buys a barrel each year ( enough to go around for all the cars at home.)
He believes it gives him peace of mind to have the best oil for his babies.

[Atlblkz06]

Originally Posted by sunsetorange

The craze for cars is something we(me n my bros) inherit from our dad. Dad goes to any length to get the best things for his cars(Merc 300D, E420 among others). He gets it from his friend who imports these oils in big barrels. Dad buys a barrel each year ( enough to go around for all the cars at home.)
He believes it gives him peace of mind to have the best oil for his babies.

I'm impressed! Yes, Amsoil products are excellent. If you sign up as a vendor on their website you get a decent discount too. I don't know if they ship internationally though. Let me know if I can help - I live stateside.

I just buy regular synthetic Pennzoil Platinum or Mobil1 oil in bulk. Hmm, you know it might be cheaper to buy a drum of Amsoil since I take care of 3 cars. Thanks for the idea cheers:

[Raccoon]

Phew... glad to see more sense prevailing here... after people making statements like thicker oil is superiour to thinner!!

Incidentally Esso Uniflo 5W50 in the 70's was not a synthetic oil. One negative point if you use an oil topping out at SAE50 if SAE40 would do. The oil with be thicker than required - the more viscous it is, the more is the friction, and hence a higher fuel consumption (at least in principle)

If the 5W50 isn't fully synth, there is one more reason not to use it (unless the grade is specifically indicated, for whatever reason). When a dino oil has such a wide viscosity range, more VIs, etc., will have been added... and that makes the oil less durable...

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by sunsetorange

The craze for cars is something we(me n my bros) inherit from our dad. Dad goes to any length to get the best things for his cars(Merc 300D, E420 among others). He gets it from his friend who imports these oils in big barrels. Dad buys a barrel each year ( enough to go around for all the cars at home.)
He believes it gives him peace of mind to have the best oil for his babies.

Sunsetorange ji, please share with the names of the person(s) who import barrels of Amsoil and make it available in India. Is this on order?

Anyone interested in a Mobil1 v/s Amsoil thread?

Cheers!
R2D2

[abhik]

Guys i need info on synthetic oils for diesel engines(CRD only).
Grade, availability in India, prices and Brands available please.
If discussed earlier please refer me to those posts.
I am aware of Mobil Delvac. But that just what i know. Need details.
Thanks Guys!

[abhik]

No answers!!! whats up guys?

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by abhik

No answers!!! whats up guys?

Go for Mobil 1 Supersynth. Check the grades required for your engine. WE generally get 5W-50 which is suitable for both petrol and diesel. And do not believe hogwash about running synth for 20-30K kms. Follow mfrs recommended drain intervals. Hope this helps.

Cheers!

[nitrous]

Originally Posted by abhik

Guys i need info on synthetic oils for diesel engines(CRD only).
Grade, availability in India, prices and Brands available please.
If discussed earlier please refer me to those posts.
I am aware of Mobil Delvac. But that just what i know. Need details.
Thanks Guys!

Mobil Delvac 1

@R2D2: Mobil 1 isn't API-CH4+ rated.