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Old 20th January 2009, 22:34   #166
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@abhik- I did consider the boost controller, but backed out because there are no after market clutches for the Swift Diesel that I know of. No major power increase mods will be done till I know there is an alternative to the OEM clutch.

Still hunting for an affordable intercooler. But first i have to get to MASS and open up the engine bay to take measurements of the stock intercooler
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Old 20th January 2009, 23:40   #167
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You bring up a good point, and I agree with you totally in principle. Boost lag sucks and we're not helping by adding plumbing for a FMIC.

However, from what I've seen - top mount intercoolers don't really work. Heat soak really kills them. I have not worked on many TMICs but I did watch a Mazdaspeed 6 get dynoed, and it lost 30HP with every consecutive run due to heat soak. It literally went from 265 to 230 to 205 in consecutive runs with 20 second breaks. This was with some dry ice on the intercooler to help with cooling on a cool day - ~15*C.

The only other car I've seen with a TMIC is the Subaru. Despite the huge scoop - most enthusiasts have found that a FMIC performs better.

I will admit - these cars do have a bit of turbo lag, but they have a good excuse. With boost ranging from a stock 14 to 28psi modified, they make 300-550 HP at the crank with torque to match.

Diesels rely on boost for power even more so than these cars do, so I think the tradeoff (boost lag for power) is worth it. Thats just a subjective opinion of course - the final call is for the owners to make.

Ram

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Originally Posted by abhik View Post
I would'nt quite agree.
An FMIC set-up will use more plumbing than a top-mounted set-up. But you would of-course have to build an air-scoop for it. A Top-mounted set-up w.r.t the Swift 1.3 DDiS would make more sense as the distance from the IC to the turbo and headers would be shorter, unless the turbo is located closer to the mid of the block near the bumpers in which case FMIC works best. The point is shortest plumbing=less lag. And thats what you should be looking for,the boost will still be the same.
In-short it'll still do the same top-end maybe a little more but it'll get you there faster.

SMIC on the other hand does need dedicated air-vents to operate with optimum efficiency. Its not such in the Swift. Maybe a reason for that is Indian conditions where there is a lot of dust to deal with.
@rippergeo you could try to mount the stock IC in a FMIC set-up and see if it makes a difference, then go in for a bigger IC accordingly.

I would say since the Swift uses a FGT go in for a boost controller and up the boost to increase the performance. They probably cost the same as a tuning box. And you will see a good difference in performance across the rev range.
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Old 22nd January 2009, 21:36   #168
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Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
@abhik- I did consider the boost controller, but backed out because there are no after market clutches for the Swift Diesel that I know of. No major power increase mods will be done till I know there is an alternative to the OEM clutch.

Still hunting for an affordable intercooler. But first i have to get to MASS and open up the engine bay to take measurements of the stock intercooler
EXEDY make clutches for Swift, but i am not sure if the specs for the DDiS are same or not.
Ask people on the forum who have turbocharged their Swifts.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 09:27   #169
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What are you guys talking about? Have you seen the DDiS intercooler? It's FM to begin with, and pretty good at that. No need to change it unless you're looking at going +10 psi on the boost, by which time you're also going to need custom conrods.

Will someone please explain to me, with a front-mounted turbo, how an FMIC has a lot more plumbing than a TMIC?
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Old 23rd January 2009, 15:54   #170
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
What are you guys talking about? Have you seen the DDiS intercooler? It's FM to begin with, and pretty good at that. No need to change it unless you're looking at going +10 psi on the boost, by which time you're also going to need custom conrods.

Will someone please explain to me, with a front-mounted turbo, how an FMIC has a lot more plumbing than a TMIC?
I actually did'nt know that whether the Swift has a front mounted Turbo or not thus unsure about the FMIC set-up.
I know Tata's have a rear high mounted turbo set-up which suits the TMIC with less plumbing.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 20:16   #171
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
What are you guys talking about? Have you seen the DDiS intercooler? It's FM to begin with, and pretty good at that. No need to change it unless you're looking at going +10 psi on the boost, by which time you're also going to need custom conrods.

Will someone please explain to me, with a front-mounted turbo, how an FMIC has a lot more plumbing than a TMIC?

Its on the right side, beside and slightly further from the grill than the radiator. I'm looking to upgrade the intercooler because the car struggles in hot weather. I thought that was due to the heat soak.right or wrong?

BTW do you know what the stock boost is for the Swift? 8 psi is what I thought. I'm told that the tuning box does not change the boost levels directly, but read that the Pete'd Elantras were showing higher than stock boost with the tuning box.

Last edited by rippergeo : 23rd January 2009 at 20:19.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 21:54   #172
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Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
Its on the right side, beside and slightly further from the grill than the radiator. I'm looking to upgrade the intercooler because the car struggles in hot weather. I thought that was due to the heat soak.right or wrong?

BTW do you know what the stock boost is for the Swift? 8 psi is what I thought. I'm told that the tuning box does not change the boost levels directly, but read that the Pete'd Elantras were showing higher than stock boost with the tuning box.
I know where it is, I own a DDiS and I've done a fair bit of thinking. My point is, you guys were discussing an FMIC vs TMIC situation, while the DDiS already has a FMIC.

Heat soak will be worse with a TMIC. Remember, hot air always rises UPWARDS. Hot air from the engine bay will rise upwards into the TMIC.

All common-rails run around 1 bar, slightly above. Swift is about 15 psi and so is the Elantra. The Octavia 1.9 TDI is around 1 bar.
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Old 24th January 2009, 13:07   #173
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
I know where it is, I own a DDiS and I've done a fair bit of thinking. My point is, you guys were discussing an FMIC vs TMIC situation, while the DDiS already has a FMIC.

Heat soak will be worse with a TMIC. Remember, hot air always rises UPWARDS. Hot air from the engine bay will rise upwards into the TMIC.

All common-rails run around 1 bar, slightly above. Swift is about 15 psi and so is the Elantra. The Octavia 1.9 TDI is around 1 bar.
Ok. you asked for the location, i gave it!
I was thinking about a bigger Intercooler, and was wondering if there was space to install it in the stock location, hence the TMIC discussion started.

So, do you think the performance drop in the afternoons that I experience currently will be controlled if I get an intercooler that has more surface area and made out of materials that have more favourable thermal characteristics?
Especially, since I'm thinking of a boost controller to be added on in the future.

when you say 15 psi- that will be 1Bar+15psi in absolute terms right? sorry for all the silly questions.
Any suggestions from your side on the clutch? In case I need to replace it. currently, everything is fine on that front(touchwood)

I did think of the convection effect heating up a TMIC, but thought, that should be solved with ventilation/hood scoops.
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Old 24th January 2009, 16:17   #174
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I suggest you start by measuring the performance drop. Do 20-40 in 2nd and 40-100 in 4th runs at different times on different days, always shifting the same way, on the same road, and note down the time taken. That will give you an idea of the actual 'drop' in performance. My guess is it will be more perceived than actual. Though a cool night will see a definite and noticeable increase in performance.

When someone mentions psi or bar on a modded engine, it is in terms of increased pressure. For absolute pressure, add 14.7 psi or 1 bar -- since you live at MSL.

A bigger intercooler will also lead to a drop in boost, upto 5 psi depending on size, and an increase in lag as well.

I doubt you can get a better material in the same price range. The DDiS intercooler is actually pretty good quality for the price.

Clutch you will need to go custom, in which case you're looking at over 25k, excluding the flywheel. If the DDiS runs a dual mass flywheel, your clutch costing has now doubled to 50k. You could experiment with the Linea VGT clutch, and I'm sure the 1.6 120 bhp MJD abroad must use a better clutch and similar gearbox.

Think logically, a heat scoop will never solve a TMIC heatsink problem.

There are no silly questions. But you may want to take all my words with a bucketload of salt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
Ok. you asked for the location, i gave it!
I was thinking about a bigger Intercooler, and was wondering if there was space to install it in the stock location, hence the TMIC discussion started.

So, do you think the performance drop in the afternoons that I experience currently will be controlled if I get an intercooler that has more surface area and made out of materials that have more favourable thermal characteristics?
Especially, since I'm thinking of a boost controller to be added on in the future.

when you say 15 psi- that will be 1Bar+15psi in absolute terms right? sorry for all the silly questions.
Any suggestions from your side on the clutch? In case I need to replace it. currently, everything is fine on that front(touchwood)

I did think of the convection effect heating up a TMIC, but thought, that should be solved with ventilation/hood scoops.
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Old 24th January 2009, 17:38   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhilv12 View Post
I made a ram air intake for my indica. and coupled with a free flow exhaust, it gave a decent increase in perfomance.
Hi, can you post pics of your Ram Air Intake?

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4. Double Surbo
Sir, can you elaborate?

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Sadly, I suddenly decided to sell my peugeot and no longer own one
Oh no, you had a nice car Pugram..

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Originally Posted by ironager View Post
speed diesel and turbojet by hp are definately better than normal diesel......to test this.....use turbojet for a month and after that fill up with normal diesel....u will see a strong performance decrease.
I think Speed Diesel or LSD from IOCL is better than turbojet from HP.


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Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
most of them i have turbos so it would be tough to change. this is what i think.
Turbo vehicles can have Headers

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Originally Posted by BUSA View Post
FYI Diesel engines dont have headers which can be changed
Why not sir?
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Old 24th January 2009, 22:17   #176
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
I'm sure the 1.6 120 bhp MJD
I thought the Linea only came out with the 1.3L MJD with VGT instead of the FGT and thus 90BHP?


I would'nt really call the Indica TMIC Intake as RAM Air Intake as the the outlet is fairly hidden beneath the chrome strip in the grill. But the idea is good. Though after reading the above posts i think it still would get a fair amount of heat as an air-scoop on the bonnet is also absent.

@atlblkz06
@v1p3r
How do you think Subaru manages the TMIC set-up w.r.t heat soak from the engine? I have just seen a Subaru from its exterior and never managed to get a glimps of the engine bay. There is just 1 Impreza in Delhi that i know of, painted in WRC graphics.
The above disscussion made me very inquisitive about how Subaru manages their TMIC since they run the same for their rally cars.

Last edited by Rehaan : 21st February 2009 at 12:03. Reason: Posts merged. Please use the EDIT button to add to an existing post within 20 minutes instead of posting another consecutive post.
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Old 24th January 2009, 22:28   #177
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i think nikhil was talking of something other than the scoop on the TCIC indica. his was a NA indica with some good engine mods
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Old 24th January 2009, 23:16   #178
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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
i think nikhil was talking of something other than the scoop on the TCIC indica. his was a NA indica with some good engine mods
I thought he is talking about the Diesel Turbo version which has an intake fixed under the hood to feed cold air to the IC. Sorry!
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Old 24th January 2009, 23:29   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post




Turbo vehicles can have Headers


Why not sir?
from what i know it would be much tougher designing headers for diesels with a turbo, especially common rails, since they are already almost optimally designed.
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Old 24th January 2009, 23:43   #180
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Arrey Dr. Ripper !! U already have petes.
Why are u wacking your brains so much to get more bhp from a quite efficient 1.3 DDis...?
Want more power in a hatch ? Get a Getz or plonk a 1.5CRDi in your Swift....
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