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Old 3rd February 2011, 15:07   #241
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to modify a diesel car for more performance

Hi
when can we change the filters to the K&N in a Swift VDI (done around 8000km)
rgds
DP
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Old 3rd February 2011, 16:30   #242
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to modify a diesel car for more performance

If you are not goin to re-map or install the tuning box, my advice is dont bother with changing the filter. Doing just that will give you a nominal difference in power, 1 you might not even notice, specially under normal driving. IMHO just a filter is money not well spent.
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Old 18th July 2011, 09:52   #243
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to modify a diesel car for more performance

I am having a Hyundai Elantra CRDI, which has run 156400 Kms. Recently after going through a post in Team BHP by tusharsethi about installing a Race Dynamics DIESELTRONIC tuning box, I contacted Pete's and enquired if same is possible with my car? Mr. Peter told me that " You need to get the Intake manifold and EGT cleaned before going for any further modifications" . Hyundai guys told me it may be EGR. My query is that does it really help? Should i go ahead with these and then install a Pete’s Tuning Box/ Race Dynamics DIESELTRONIC? Which one is the better product?

ps to mods : I had posted in other link and did not get any reply.
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Old 18th July 2011, 11:18   #244
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to modify a diesel car for more performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasuki View Post
I am having a Hyundai Elantra CRDI, which has run 156400 Kms. Recently after going through a post in Team BHP by tusharsethi about installing a Race Dynamics DIESELTRONIC tuning box, I contacted Pete's and enquired if same is possible with my car? Mr. Peter told me that " You need to get the Intake manifold and EGT cleaned before going for any further modifications" . Hyundai guys told me it may be EGR. My query is that does it really help? Should i go ahead with these and then install a Pete’s Tuning Box/ Race Dynamics DIESELTRONIC? Which one is the better product?

ps to mods : I had posted in other link and did not get any reply.
The reason he is asking you to get those 2 things cleaned is because your car has run so much. Get that done and then decide between the 2.
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Old 20th July 2011, 22:20   #245
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to modify a diesel car for more performance

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Originally Posted by misquitas View Post
Getting a neutral, honest and expert opinion from any of them is not that easy. But thanks, I'll try various options to get that tacho fitted on the Ritz LDI.



Good idea, will check up with the works manager and will then revert to you guys for the "neutral, honest and expert opinion".

Thanks,
Melvyn
Hi, what happened finally? Was it possible to fit a RITZ VDI tacho meter on the RITZ LDI?
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Old 20th July 2011, 22:32   #246
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to modify a diesel car for more performance

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Originally Posted by Nash24 View Post
Hi, what happened finally? Was it possible to fit a RITZ VDI tacho meter on the RITZ LDI?
The idea was abandoned as I eventually purchased the I10 in December 2010. I did not pursue the matter thereafter and I don't know if anyone managed to install the RITZ VDI tacho meter on the RITZ LDI.
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Old 31st July 2011, 01:24   #247
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to modify a diesel car for more performance

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Old 21st January 2012, 19:02   #248
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to modify a diesel car for more performance

Trust me this is a great discussion. Can you please let me know if our regular mechanics/authorized service stations can do stuff like change the gear ratios, tweak the turbo lag etc? I do know that stuff like Pete's boxes etc will enhance performance but dont know if it will help us fight turbo lag in lower rpms. Any responses/pointers will be really appreciated.
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Old 21st January 2012, 21:01   #249
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to modify a diesel car for more performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Modern diesel engines compete very effectively with petrol engines. Common-rail and some direct-injection turbo diesels are lightning fast, phenomenally fuel efficient and offer phenomenal torque that improves drivability. But is BHP ever enough? If you think performance enhancements are only for petrol engines, think again.

Team-BHP examines how you can get more power from your diesel engine:

1. Power chips and boxes: As simple to install as plug-and-play; in as little as five minutes you can shave upto three seconds from your 0 – 100 acceleration time. Most diesel engines are electronically controlled and a power box will adjust certain control parameters to significantly improve performance. Adding a better intake filter and a free flow exhaust will further improve the performance of your chipped diesel.

2. Turbo-charging: The high compression ratios in diesel engines call for tougher components than those used in petrol engines. As a result, it is easier to install and upgrade turbos on a diesel. Keep in mind that turbo-charging a diesel engine requires an increase in fuel pressure on the fuel pump. Find out more about turbo-charging from this linky.

3. Tweaking fuel pumps: Simple fuel pump tuning will provide more power, albeit at the expense of fuel efficiency. The most frequently modified fuel pumps are manufactured by Bosch. Contact a diesel fuel pump overhauling service to help you tune your pump.

4. Improved inhaling: More air means more oxygen which means more power. Since turbo-charged diesel engines need lots of cool air, RAM intakes offer noticeable performance improvements. The use of performance-grade filters also improves the intake characteristics of turbo-charged diesel engines.

5. Improved exhaling: A free-flowing exhaust leads to the smooth discharge of exhaust gases and results in improved performance. Also, turbo back-pressure is reduced by good exhaust flow.

6. LPG fumigation: Akin to NOS injection in petrol engines, LPG fumigation is the introduction of propane into the air intake of a diesel engine. The difference is that NOS can be used only for short bursts while LPG can be used for longer distances. LPG works like a fuel additive, providing a small amount of fast-burning fuel to aid combustion. It is relatively safe to use: diesel ignites at 350 degrees while LPG ignites at close to 500 degrees, so LPG combustion occurs only after the diesel has ignited. LPG kits for diesels are similar to the LPG kits used on normal petrol cars, except that they are boost-referenced as rather than vacuum-referenced. A properly installed LPG fumigation system will result in a better-running diesel engine. Recommended links for more information are mrsharkey and xtremediesel.


Thanks to Psycho for his extensive inputs on this article.
GTO, some doubts after reading your article .

Turbo charging , high compression ratios , what is the ideal compression ratio to turbo a NA diesel..

What factors need to be looked .

Incase of old diesels , strong internals are preferred .

So how does one tuner know about the internals??

So how to increase the pump pressure , ok if its some how done, how to compensate for the ALDA , it will smoke royally before teh turbo spools .

Tweaking pumps , how can you tweak a pump in a crdi latest engine ? , wont the remaps take care of this ?

Bosch , kiki, mico bosch , tvs lucas and delphi all can be tweaked (inline or rotart pumps). HOW can the diesel pump service guys help us , will they increase the rack limiter, fast idle , how, it will smoke .

Performance fitlers take in a lot of dust , had to change the engine oil frequently .

Exhaust, free flow on a diesel is toooo loud, cops will stop us at every signal, if there is no back pressure, what about the low end torque and turbo lag?

These are some queries i faced lot of times .
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Old 22nd January 2012, 03:53   #250
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to modify a diesel car for more performance

I've done this with a few cars and I agree, and - with respect - disagree on some points of the original posting.

For background I have owned and tuned several diesels including non-turbo IDI mechanical injection units to the latest VW TDI versions. My last Fabia was tweaked from about 130BHP to 190+ - it was a BMW killing flying machine. I've used a lot of techniques below is my response to the original posting :

1. Chip Boxes - these work on ECU equiped engines and basically add fuel. Diesel engines are fuel controlled - more fuel, more power - so they increase this. The side effects are increased fuel consumption (depending on how you drive) and more smoke as some fuel will remain unburned.

2. Tuning a non-turbo Diesel is hard, you must add a turbo or (better) start with one. There is no throttle so adding free flow filters or exhausts is kind of a waste. When you drive one you can sometimes find a "sweet spot" on the throttle where you are balancing the engine's capacity for fuel with what you (via the pedal) are providing. At this point the car will accelerate faster than just pushing the pedal flat down.

3. You can manually tweak a fuel pump to add fuel but you increase fuel consumption and can add smoke to your exhaust. With the Bosch pump on a Peugeot XUDT engine the rule was to increase fuel until it smoked and then turn it back 2-3 turns of the screw. You could then road test it and adjust to suit - reduce fuel if there is too much smoke or increase it if there was none.

4. I have never ever seen a Turbo-Diesel engine benefit from performance filters but as Americans sometimes say - It can't hurt - and you get a better filter product.

5. Again I haven't seen this be a benefit - mine still had the same exhaust Skoda fitted it with from the factory. Performance exhausts IMHO tend to just lead to more noise and no extra "performance".

6. Never seen this used, it may be a little extreme depending on the cost of installing an LPG system and refilling it.

The best starting point for a performance diesel is a common-rail direct-injection unit. With a little computer work the ECU can be reprogrammed to give about 10-30% more power alone by increasing fuel delivery. This is usually done via the ODB port and a laptop PC - but some makers have "locked" their ECUs so you have to use another method.

The laptop method takes 5 minutes.

After that if you want to go further you need to increase air flow to match any extra fuel so you either cool it to make it more dense (e.g. better intercooller) or fit a bigger turbo. If you do the latter then you also increase turbo-lag so an intercooller is a safer start. You can also relocate the intercooler - e.g. in some VWs and Skodas it is located in the front wheel arch - behind the grill is better.

Once you do all of this of course you need to think about the rest of your drivetrain - the clutch and the gearbox. Diesels tend to use much "longer" gear ratios than petrol cars so sometimes the clutch becomes the weak point - it is the link between the irresistable force (the engine torque) and the immovable object (the high gears) - so it can start to slip and eventually wear out.

The most expensive part of my performance upgrades was the clutch - which eventually cost me nearly £1500. Even with performance tyres the car would spin it's front wheels in 3rd gear.

But I could outrun BMWs in my small hatchback afterwards, so it was worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Modern diesel engines compete very effectively with petrol engines. Common-rail and some direct-injection turbo diesels are lightning fast, phenomenally fuel efficient and offer phenomenal torque that improves drivability. But is BHP ever enough? If you think performance enhancements are only for petrol engines, think again.

Team-BHP examines how you can get more power from your diesel engine:

1. Power chips and boxes: As simple to install as plug-and-play; in as little as five minutes you can shave upto three seconds from your 0 – 100 acceleration time. Most diesel engines are electronically controlled and a power box will adjust certain control parameters to significantly improve performance. Adding a better intake filter and a free flow exhaust will further improve the performance of your chipped diesel.

2. Turbo-charging: The high compression ratios in diesel engines call for tougher components than those used in petrol engines. As a result, it is easier to install and upgrade turbos on a diesel. Keep in mind that turbo-charging a diesel engine requires an increase in fuel pressure on the fuel pump. Find out more about turbo-charging from this linky.

3. Tweaking fuel pumps: Simple fuel pump tuning will provide more power, albeit at the expense of fuel efficiency. The most frequently modified fuel pumps are manufactured by Bosch. Contact a diesel fuel pump overhauling service to help you tune your pump.

4. Improved inhaling: More air means more oxygen which means more power. Since turbo-charged diesel engines need lots of cool air, RAM intakes offer noticeable performance improvements. The use of performance-grade filters also improves the intake characteristics of turbo-charged diesel engines.

5. Improved exhaling: A free-flowing exhaust leads to the smooth discharge of exhaust gases and results in improved performance. Also, turbo back-pressure is reduced by good exhaust flow.

6. LPG fumigation: Akin to NOS injection in petrol engines, LPG fumigation is the introduction of propane into the air intake of a diesel engine. The difference is that NOS can be used only for short bursts while LPG can be used for longer distances. LPG works like a fuel additive, providing a small amount of fast-burning fuel to aid combustion. It is relatively safe to use: diesel ignites at 350 degrees while LPG ignites at close to 500 degrees, so LPG combustion occurs only after the diesel has ignited. LPG kits for diesels are similar to the LPG kits used on normal petrol cars, except that they are boost-referenced as rather than vacuum-referenced. A properly installed LPG fumigation system will result in a better-running diesel engine. Recommended links for more information are mrsharkey and xtremediesel.


Thanks to Psycho for his extensive inputs on this article.
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Old 22nd January 2012, 07:01   #251
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to modify a diesel car for more performance

^^^ Welcome to fantasy disco Sandeep!

Let me answer some points of interest!

1. There are a lot of factors before one decides to TC a vehicle including the engine, its characteristics, whether it is suited for TCing etc.

2. Pumps: Yes DI/IDI all pumps can be tweaked upto 7% or so.

3. Performance filters need to be cleaned periodically depending on operating environment, location of the filter in the engine bay etc.

4. FFE can be made softer and sound dampened if done by professional tuner who knows his job.

5. In CRDI engines, a ECU Remap is the only solution. Tuning boxes merely fool the ECU.

6. LPG Fumigation is a concept akin to NOS in petrol engines - Good Theoretically, but have not come across anybody who has done it.

Last edited by headers : 22nd January 2012 at 07:04.
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Old 22nd January 2012, 11:54   #252
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to modify a diesel car for more performance

All

I have been following these threads for quite some, I am very keen on going in for the same on my Linea MJD in another years time, (I have 2 + 2 extended warranty on the same, want to be atleast close to end of warranty).

After reading pretty much of the information available here, two things come out.

1. Tuning Boxes = easiest thing to do, swap out when going to the service station, does not show on OBD. Expensive - ~ 22K to 45 K depending on your ride. (Do wait, will share why).
Not necessarily the safest way to go. (Please do not flame me on this, i am aware that there are rides which have done in excess of 70K KMs on tuning boxes here, this is more from the way the tuning box is desinged to operate).
For rides with MIDs, supposed to be chances of mis representing data with tuner box on.

Tuning Boxes change only one parameter to get performance, which in diesel engines is fueling.
Here is one perspective on the same, EndTuning - Tech - Tuning Boxes This has already been posted earlier.
Please search for @drpullockaran posts, he has always taken pains to share why tuning boxes are not the answer and remap works.

2. Remap = relatively easy, cannot swap out, will show up on OBD. Permanent (Until you change the map manually).
More granular control on a variety of parameters. Better results expected.
Relatively cheaper ~ INR 16 K. (restricted).

Where and who,

COSWORTH, a known name in the performance aftermarket.

Not all cars/engines supported currently.
But they do Petrol engines in addition to Diesel.
Cosworth.com | Products | Performance Parts


Please check below link from @satya180, for more details.
Swift VDi Remapped
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...-remapped.html (Swift VDi Remapped)

The cosworth team should be available on request at least in the major indian cities.
Of course we do need to ask them for before and after dyno graphs, I am not sure if these are available, i have not spoken to Cosworth yet.

Please Note: TdiRacing - Homepage is another player in the same area. There are references to this in various posts/threads in diesel engine performance category.

http://www.enginecal.com/products.html This one is for a tuning box.

There can be situations where a remap may not be possible, and a tuning box may be the only way to go. But if a remap be available from a reliable source, and is cheaper. I urge all of us to give it a thorough look before spending our money.

This has been put up to basically take a look at remap vs tuning box.
This is in no way supposed to be conclusive, each to his own.
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Old 24th January 2012, 10:58   #253
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to modify a diesel car for more performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morph View Post
For background I have owned and tuned several diesels including non-turbo IDI mechanical injection units to the latest VW TDI versions. My last Fabia was tweaked from about 130BHP to 190+ - it was a BMW killing flying machine. I've used a lot of techniques below is my response to the original posting :

But I could outrun BMWs in my small hatchback afterwards, so it was worth it.
@Morph - I would love to know more about your fabia, why dont you create a separate thread or atleast PM me the details.
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Old 30th January 2012, 17:09   #254
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to modify a diesel car for more performance

I have read some of the recent posts in this thread.

The ultimate goal of a remap or a chip is to alter the amount of fuel going into the engine. The basic fact is more fuel = more power.

However, this cannot achieved blindly. For a given mechanical configuration - and this includes the size of the engine, the intake system, the exhaust system, the strength of the internal components such as gaskets, pistons, crankshaft and conrods etc, there are physical limits as to how much more power can be generated. Limits are also placed by other components such as the turbocharger or supercharger (in cars fitted with such a device).

It would be extreme to say that one form (e.g. remap) is better than the other.

Some of the pros of the externals chips (piggybacks, tuning chips or whatever name they are called by) are:

1. they do not alter the internal programmes of the ecu, so reversion to the stock condition is as easy as removing it.

2. For a similar reason, they can be removed easily and fitted on another car (some devices even allow fitment to another type ofcar with some reprogamming), so the investment is not spent completely on the single vehicle (or car).

Remaps, on the other hand have the advantage that parameters other than those that can be modified by an external chip can be modified. This is a big advantage in the hands of an experienced tuner

At the same time this is also a big threat in the hands of an inexperienced tuner, because some changes may have unpredictable results and may not show up except under some conditions and may never be easily traced back to the remap.

Both methods ultimately achieve the same results. The question is how reliably, and how safely and how predictably.

As a general approach, I am not in favour of anyone tampering with the original programme in the oem ecu which has been made after considerable thought with regard to safety and reliability aand hence my inclination towards external devices.
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Old 6th March 2012, 15:03   #255
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to modify a diesel car for more performance

This is a good old skool post for basic diesel engine mods.

There are a few of these mods that I can envision for my Palio Stile 1.3 MJD.

1. Tuning box - I've been recommended race dynamics
2. Panel filter - replaces the stock filter to help the engine breathe better
3. Complete exhaust system - I'm not sure about headers here, but a custom forged exhaust system has been quoted for me.

In GTO's first post in this thread, he mentions that an aftermarket exhaust will help the exhaust gasses get out faster and also reduces back pressure on the turbo. On a contrary note, doesn't the turbo also require some back pressure to operate? Or is it just the exhaust manifold pressure that drives the fan of the turbo?
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