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Old 22nd March 2017, 20:56   #76
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Default Re: Motorsport champion Ashwin Sundar passes away in tragic road accident

I'm dumbfounded people are are saying we don't know what his circumstances were to judge him.

You do the math. The Hindu reports 120 KMPH and and eyewitnesses said the car was FLYING.

Now the speed-breaker being unpainted is unfortunate so it isn't TOTALLY his fault.

Yet imagine if he killed an innocent person walking on the road or something.

No hard feelings for the guy but even if that was my cousin I would've shown the same level of lack of empathy.



I've been through tough phases in my life where bad luck or a series of unfortunate events took place but I never thought about it as an external event - I only blamed myself for being an idiot for not being wise enough to foresee the trouble I ran into.

What he should've thought was "Oh, I'm in a developing country where the roads aren't good enough to push a BMW Z4 at 120 KMPH after 1 AM, especially with another person onboard on city roads".

We're all responsible for our OWN LIVES. PERIOD.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 22:21   #77
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Default Re: Motorsport champion Ashwin Sundar passes away in tragic road accident

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Originally Posted by D33-PAC View Post
I've been through tough phases in my life where bad luck or a series of unfortunate events took place but I never thought about it as an external event - I only blamed myself for being an idiot for not being wise enough to foresee the trouble I ran into.
This shows you are a very matured and strong person. Not everyone will be like you. Secondly, you are judging yourself - which is perfectly fine. It is not your neighbors or unrelated public that is judging you - if that happens, it is not always fine.

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Originally Posted by D33-PAC View Post
I'm dumbfounded people are are saying we don't know what his circumstances were to judge him.

You do the math. The Hindu reports 120 KMPH and and eyewitnesses said the car was FLYING.
If he was doing 120 kmph, he should be blamed - no doubts.

In my opinion, the Hindu staff were not exactly eye witnesses. They did not exactly witness the accident. They passed by when the accident occurred on the other side of the road. I am quoting from the report in Hindu

Quote:
We had just crossed MRC Hall on Santhome High Road and were about to reach the curve on the road near the Ayappan temple, when something suddenly hurtled past us on the opposite lane. It was so fast that it was all a blur.
Now, they say something hurled past them - is this before the car hit the speed-breaker or after? They were travelling in the opposite direction. What was their speed? With speeds of 60 kmph (bike) and 100 kmph (car), the relative speed can appear VERY FAST - 160 kmph.

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Moments later, we saw a ball of fire. Our first thought was that a junction box had caught fire.
They did not even realize it was a car initially and assumed it was some junction box that caught fire. Now, after reading this part, I will not consider their statement to be 100% accurate.

Quote:
Only later did the realisation dawn on us that it was a car moving at breakneck speed that had lost control, hit a tree and exploded. We heard a bang, a scream from inside the car, and then, there was a sickening silence, punctuated only by the crackle of the flames.
Now comes the contradiction. They heard a scream from inside the car - obviously this has to be before the fire. Still they thought it was a junction box on fire??

Now, even if the statement of the Hindu staff is entirely correct - I do not subscribe to the judgmental attitude where we call him "inexperienced", "unskilled" "reckless" or "stupid". That is what I have mentioned in the earlier post as well (quoted below).

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Originally Posted by Vigkey View Post
I totally agree that this is not the time to point fingers at or judge someone. Calling the driver "inexperienced", "unskilled" "reckless", "stupid", etc. is totally uncalled for as we do not know what exactly happened - No one does, except the two souls that passed away and the Almighty. I read one first hand account - which again, might be exaggerated or spiced-up. Again, even if it was true, the person did not see exactly what happened.

Last edited by Vigkey : 22nd March 2017 at 22:25.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 22:59   #78
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One thing must be taken into account is that as the driver was a professional racer, he would surely be aware about emergency situations and actions required. He could open/cut the seat belts, unlock the door, break the glass, etc. But as the car was stuck between wall and tree, doors couldn't simply be opened and he also had a co-passenger to take care of. It also looks impossible to come out by breaking the front windscreen as the fire would have started from the engine bay as experts are pointing. The fuel tank rupture would have made it a massive ball of fire in no time. All this adds up to 0% probability of getting out out the car safely even for a single person. I am not taking into account the injury and shock due to the impact on landing and hitting against the wall.

My blood boils after thinking only about the unmarked speed breaker and the people who left it unmarked. Say this BMW has made it to the newspapers, what about poor 2-wheeler drivers and other car drivers who would have experienced some kind of injury, hazard either to themselves or their vehicles.

Lesson learnt, our roads are not racetracks and unless you are familiar with the route, one shouldn't drive fast.
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Old 23rd March 2017, 00:14   #79
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Default Re: Motorsport champion Ashwin Sundar passes away in tragic road accident

This is why the order was given to demolish all speed breakers on national highways. They're killers and don't save lives.
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Old 23rd March 2017, 09:26   #80
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Default Re: Motorsport champion Ashwin Sundar passes away in tragic road accident

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Originally Posted by carwatcher View Post
One thing must be taken into account is that as the driver was a professional racer, he would surely be aware about emergency situations and actions required.
Speeding at 3 AM in a BMW with a heavily tinted windshield is not like driving formula car on a track. Also racetracks don't have speedbreakers, trees, oncoming traffic etc as random hazards.

I doubt he had ever lost the street racer mentality he seems to have originally started out with.
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Old 23rd March 2017, 10:10   #81
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Default Re: Motorsport champion Ashwin Sundar passes away in tragic road accident

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Originally Posted by hserus View Post
Speeding at 3 AM in a BMW with a heavily tinted windshield is not like driving formula car on a track.
I doubt he had ever lost the street racer mentality he seems to have originally started out with.
The stock car was modified, the windshield was heavily tinted, the vehicle was driven above legal speed limits, an innocent co-driver was killed, looks like he never had a respect for the law and has flouted all rules and met a tragic end. He certainly did not lose his street racer mentality. Glad that he killed himself rather than killing innocent people.

Last edited by deehunk : 23rd March 2017 at 10:22.
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Old 23rd March 2017, 10:21   #82
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Default Re: Motorsport champion Ashwin Sundar passes away in tragic road accident

Completely Agree with Vigkey

We do not have complete facts! All of you have your whole lifetime ahead to balme guy who is no more. No need to hurry. Please ensure you have proper info!

I am not a racing Fan. And the day he died was the first time I heard his name.

"Now is not the time to advice someone how to drive safely" -- My intention was never to tell people to stop advising about safe driving. My only intention was that the thread at that point of time (4th Day of the incident) required our maturity to understand the gravity of the situation and respect his friends and family.
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Old 23rd March 2017, 13:42   #83
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Default Re: Motorsport champion Ashwin Sundar passes away in tragic road accident

I don't completely agree with the blanket observation made by you that all the speed breakers are killers, they were put up in the place must be for some reason.

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Originally Posted by H_Dogg72 View Post
This is why the order was given to demolish all speed breakers on national highways. They're killers and don't save lives.
Completely agree.

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Originally Posted by hserus View Post
Speeding at 3 AM in a BMW with a heavily tinted windshield is not like driving formula car on a track. Also racetracks don't have speedbreakers, trees, oncoming traffic etc as random hazards.
Thanks for putting it correctly. Had there been some poor bystander, cyclist also got killed, the tone of the thread would be more critical of the BMW driver.

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Originally Posted by deehunk View Post
The stock car was modified, the windshield was heavily tinted, the vehicle was driven above legal speed limits, an innocent co-driver was killed, looks like he never had a respect for the law and has flouted all rules and met a tragic end. He certainly did not lose his street racer mentality. Glad that he killed himself rather than killing innocent people.
And what would be that time ?
Its a public forum after all. You can't expect everyone to be politically correct and discuss only his achievements and not discuss the cause of the accident, for that there would be many FB groups. There are numerous threads which are buried somewhere on the same topic. Even this thread would meet the same fate as the driver was not as popular as Paul Walker.

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Originally Posted by RaghuVis View Post
"Now is not the time to advice someone how to drive safely" -- My intention was never to tell people to stop advising about safe driving. My only intention was that the thread at that point of time (4th Day of the incident) required our maturity to understand the gravity of the situation and respect his friends and family.
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Old 23rd March 2017, 13:57   #84
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Default Re: Motorsport champion Ashwin Sundar passes away in tragic road accident

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I don't completely agree with the blanket observation made by you that all the speed breakers are killers, they were put up in the place must be for some reason.
Long straight road leading to the marina beach, chepauk stadium, chennai central railway station etc.

The speedbreaker is near a school and a temple. There are others on the road just before cross streets leading into residential colonies.

There definitely need to be speedbreakers on that road but properly designed and marked ones and not concrete cylindrical humps.
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Old 23rd March 2017, 14:25   #85
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Default Re: Motorsport champion Ashwin Sundar passes away in tragic road accident

Exactly, the problem is not of speed breaker, but the unmarked ones or the ones which are not properly maintained by regular repainting.

Its altogether foolish to expect people to drive slowly while day by day we are getting more powerful cars and also lack of such mouth-watering stretch of roads to test them. We have numerous posts mentioning car drivers honking near hospitals, not stopping but driving even faster on zebra crossing scaring pedestrians, not slowing down near schools, etc.

If I am given a choice I would still prefer a speed breaker than getting mowed down by a high speed car, but the situation changes completely when the same speed breaker is unmarked one. It seems that there is a war going on between car owners and road making contractors (read Govt) to run each other down and justify their acts by pointing the mistakes of each other to cover their own.

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Originally Posted by hserus View Post
Long straight road leading to the marina beach, chepauk stadium, chennai central railway station etc.

The speedbreaker is near a school and a temple. There are others on the road just before cross streets leading into residential colonies.

There definitely need to be speedbreakers on that road but properly designed and marked ones and not concrete cylindrical humps.
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Old 23rd March 2017, 15:25   #86
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Default Re: Motorsport champion Ashwin Sundar passes away in tragic road accident

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Originally Posted by carwatcher View Post

And what would be that time ?
Its a public forum after all. You can't expect everyone to be politically correct and discuss only his achievements and not discuss the cause of the accident, for that there would be many FB groups. There are numerous threads which are buried somewhere on the same topic. Even this thread would meet the same fate as the driver was not as popular as Paul Walker.
Buddy! Where did I ask to be politically correct? Again you guys seem to not understand what I meant by TIME. I have explained once already and I feel it was simple enough to understand what I meant. We definitely need to DISCUSS the cause of Accident. But here so many were Speculating , calling him names and even accusing him of killing his wife. I just requested that to stop.
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Old 23rd March 2017, 16:11   #87
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Default Re: Motorsport champion Ashwin Sundar passes away in tragic road accident

Thanks to Ethesham Mohiuddin for sharing the following!

Quote:
It is possible to tell what was the speed of the car just before crash.

For that, we need to measure the length of the skid marks (in meters). Using the formula v^2-u^2=2(-a)s where, '-a' is negative acceleration (retardation) 'v' is final velocity = 0 (as car has stopped/crashed) 'u' is initial velocity (at which car was travelling before crash) 's' is stopping distance (length of skid marks).

Now, a = fg where, 'f' is friction factor (0.4 according to IRC) 'g' is acceleration due to gravity (9.48m/s^2)

Substitute in the above equation and we can get to know the speed of the car before crash.

There is a 'but' though. The formula may not give accurate results if the car was airborne before the crash.
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Old 23rd March 2017, 17:47   #88
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Default Re: Motorsport champion Ashwin Sundar passes away in tragic road accident

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Now, a = fg where, 'f' is friction factor (0.4 according to IRC) 'g' is acceleration due to gravity (9.48m/s^2)
Here is another place where inaccuracy in the formula exponentially grows. a=f*g with f=0.4 (friction coefficient) and g = 9.8 meter per second square holds good only when the car is moving without any braking. Since the car will be decelerated heavily due to heavy breaking, f will also increase based on the velocity of the car. Hence, this goes into circular reference.

In fact, a (deceleration) and subsequently f - the frictional coefficient using a=f*g can be calculated with the above method if we know the u(Initial Velocity), v (Final Velocity) and s(Distance traveled)

But, calculating f through above method would not be accurate !!
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Old 23rd March 2017, 17:53   #89
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Default Re: Motorsport champion Ashwin Sundar passes away in tragic road accident

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Originally Posted by gkveda View Post
Here is another place where inaccuracy in the formula exponentially grows. a=f*g with f=0.4 (friction coefficient) and g = 9.8 meter per second square holds good only when the car is moving without any braking. Since the car will be decelerated heavily due to heavy breaking, f will also increase based on the velocity of the car. Hence, this goes into circular reference.
f = 0.4 applies for very slick / wet roads. For normal road surfaces a .6 or so (nice smooth road, well paved etc). If there are potholes so you get a gravel surface, or a hard concrete speedbreaker, the f climbs up way higher - 0.9 isn't unlikely. And then of course as the gentleman who emailed GTO points out, once the car goes airborne after hitting the speedbreaker, f = 0.

Note - worth a read. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...ictire.html#c1
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Old 23rd March 2017, 18:09   #90
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Default Re: Motorsport champion Ashwin Sundar passes away in tragic road accident

All the formulas and calculations will never work in any case as the road was used after that. Any evidence will have been wiped out.

Whatever happened only Ashwin would be able clarify and he is not around to defend himself. Maybe there was some technical/mechanical fault also which contributed to the accident. I did not know him, but amidst all this speculation we are maligning him without any concrete evidence.

The most pertinent question is - What are we trying to gain here?
Show ourselves as very sensible, mature and all knowing or what?

Whichever way you look at it, it is a terrible tragedy of two young lives being snuffed out. Spare their families and their memories this unnecessary mudslinging.

Why don't we let the both of them RIP.
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