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Old 11th May 2010, 18:03   #1
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Default The single factor causing the demise of exciting F1 racing

Aerodynamics has taken a quantum leap in the last 15 yrs
Since engineers began understanding the potential here, more resources have gone into developing this area than any other in an F1 car.

Sadly this is the single element that is leading to its downfall.
The term no overtaking in F1 is being used far too often.

We have been lucky this year with the weather adding the spice that is needed.

Advanced aero has lead to longer 'wakes' (the air trail created by the car) resulting in car unable to follow each other closely, thus leading to a restriction in overtaking.

More overtaking, more the excitement. Bernie Eccelstone joked that every race track should have sprinklers to douse the track and boost overtaking!

Close to nothing of what F1 engineers (and manufacturers) learn in a wind tunnel is transferred onto a road car today. Not too mention how expensive aero updates are to a team.

The (only) solution is restrict the effect of Aerodynamics in F1.

Have a fixed drag coefficient for each car (significantly higher than it is currently ofcourse). This will restrict the wake and enable cars to follow one another even at high speed corners. Restricting wind tunnel time and aero development teams will also cut costs.

The teams can be allowed to indulge in some aero development to alter car handling, cooling solutions etc., but at all times keep within the (minimum)drag co efficient.

The FIA try every year to slow cars down and fail each time causing a massive rule change every few years. Why beat around the bush and control front and rear wings (only to give birth to the double diffuser), ban refuelling thinking it will encourage drivers to overtake on track only to result in lesser overtaking when there is a need to do much more.
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Old 22nd May 2010, 12:29   #2
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Hi Hatari, you seem to have a fair few interesting points on making F1 more interesting, and your post was an interesting read. I too am a huge formula 1 fan and have been watching F1 since 1993, and here are some of my views..

First it is vital to make f1 as less restricted as possible aerodynamically as well as mechanically as this alone will guarantee distinction between the way different cars will look on track and the way different teams will go about achieving the ultimate goal in f1, i.e to make the fastest car on any given day. But having said that i totally agree with u Hatari with regards to the effect complex aerodynamics is having on overtaking. So in my humble opinion i think the FIA should move towards only allowing single fin front and rear wings and considerably reduce the size of these wings... especially the front. Also since F1 technology should be aiding in the development of road cars, you should not allow extra aerodynamic bits and peaces on the cars like winglets and other devices to appear for certain races then disappear on other tracks.

There should be few allowances for a few aerodynamic pieces on the body work, but if a team chooses to use them, then those should be used all through out the season. Just like in a road car.

Secondly, the FIA should allow unrestricted development of the engines and set no limit on RPM, but having said that they should make teams use the same engines for longer periods of time, longer than what is permitted now. This should be done gradually otherwise the smaller teams will suffer major reliability issues.

And lastly, The whole Formula 1 corporation should be dismantled and a new series has to be setup. Why do i say this? Well at present Formula 1 is owned by Mr. Bernie who holds about 25% of the shares i think, and the rest is held by private banks and finance companies. At the end of the year when the profits are tallied for the "formula 1 corporation", the teams get a nominal amount from tv revenues, but the rest of the profits that the F1 show made throughout the year, like from ticket sales, fees from race track owners, F1 sponsors etc etc are divided among the shareholders of the company and nothing goes to the teams. This has got to stop. If the profit starts to go to the teams instead of these private banks and private owners, then the survival of the teams is guaranteed, thus guaranteeing the survival of the sport.

I know my last point is quite controversial and am sure a lot of people will disagree, but this is just my opinion and you all have a right to your own opinion as well. happy reading :-)
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Old 10th June 2010, 18:05   #3
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Engine rpm restriction has 2 objectives - to keep speeds in check and cost saving (on development). Even the big teams can have issues with the engine freeze.. ferrari did with its reliability

Currently CVC own 70%, JP Morgan 20% and Bernie's family trust owns the balance 10%.

Revenue sharing for teams comes almost entirely from TV revenues & race hosting fees.
I think 60% of total revenue goes to the teams rest to the commercial rights holders, which is pretty low. (FOTA and FIA keep discussing this)

Any on track advertising/ticket sales rightly goes to the race track as its income, as they do pay a fat sum to the FIA for hosting a race (upto $35 million a yr depending on the track)
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Old 10th June 2010, 19:41   #4
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Have the studies on aerodynamics by the constructors resulted in any tangible improvements for the (mainstream) car industry, i.e., for the cars that an ordinary bloke like me drives? If so, the case to restrict 'aerodynamic improvements' is weakened, don't you think?

{F1, Motocross and other automotive sporting events provide opportunities for 'mainstreaming' of new technologies to make everyday cars safer, better engineered and more fuel efficient, apart from the obvious excitement, passion and joy linked to any sport.}
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Old 10th June 2010, 20:10   #5
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I would say, give them a fixed budget/resource to keep all the teams in equal terms. Let the team develop anything they want to go faster. F1 is nothing without innovation, let them innovate ways to defend & fight on the track. That will make F1 interesting!
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Old 11th June 2010, 09:31   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
I would say, give them a fixed budget/resource to keep all the teams in equal terms. Let the team develop anything they want to go faster. F1 is nothing without innovation, let them innovate ways to defend & fight on the track. That will make F1 interesting!
This sound familiar? Well of course it does!

This was Max Mosley's original idea: 40 million dollar budget cap and unlimited technical freedom.

It was shot down and then there was the choice between a 40 million cap and lots of technical freedom or an unlimited budget but less technical freedom which was also shot down.

Last edited by McLaren Rulez : 11th June 2010 at 09:32.
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Old 11th June 2010, 11:11   #7
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issigonis :
thats the reason i suggest they reduce dependence on aero.. the resultant learnings and advancement transferred to road cars is close to nil.
development in F1 must spill over to road cars as is the case with other mechanical/electronic bits

anachronix:
a budget cap is very debatable. F1 is a form of advertising for the manufacturers : have u seen a ferrari ad anywhere? F1 is their only form of advertising.
which makes winning for them all the more important.
Implementing a cap is also very complex.. Mercedes F1 pay shumi a $21 million salary. the mercedes parent company pay him a fixed $9 million more as sponsorship (as per contract). its becomes difficult to classify costs etc

Post recession companies have realised the importance of efficiently using their resources. gone are the days where the amt of money invested guarantees a direct gain on track. Toyota & Honda are classic examples. they put in more than a $1.5billion into their F1 projects without any real success. Long gone are the hay days when there was plenty of tobacco money for the teams to throw around.
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Old 11th June 2010, 11:52   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
This sound familiar? Well of course it does!

This was Max Mosley's original idea: 40 million dollar budget cap and unlimited technical freedom.

It was shot down and then there was the choice between a 40 million cap and lots of technical freedom or an unlimited budget but less technical freedom which was also shot down.
Quote:
a budget cap is very debatable. F1 is a form of advertising for the manufacturers : have u seen a ferrari ad anywhere? F1 is their only form of advertising.

which makes winning for them all the more important.
Implementing a cap is also very complex.. Mercedes F1 pay shumi a $21 million salary. the mercedes parent company pay him a fixed $9 million more as sponsorship (as per contract). its becomes difficult to classify costs etc
40M$ is peanuts in F1 and it was turned down for the same reason. The other option looked better for Touring car series and it was turned down as well.

Max's idea was to attract new teams in F1 with the budget cap, but then we all know how much is spent on F1 by a team like Ferrari/Mclaren/Redbull so it was obvious that its was not agreed!

Now that we have a more sensible man in FIA, there might be a better proposal coming up soon!

I would always support the idea of a limited budget cap, complete technical freedom, that will make racing much more fun like it was supposed to be. You will see more innovations from the teams which always made sense to the word Formula in F1. Now its all about reading between the lines of the rule book and exploit any loop holes which makes one, Champion!

Last edited by anachronix : 11th June 2010 at 11:56.
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Old 11th June 2010, 12:19   #9
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I've always found F1 racing to be too boring a thing to watch. With such rules, there's no fun at all. Even a 10 second video clip of WRC action is more exciting to watch, though there is no overtaking!

Last edited by clevermax : 11th June 2010 at 12:21.
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Old 11th June 2010, 13:51   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amrisharm View Post

And lastly, The whole Formula 1 corporation should be dismantled and a new series has to be setup. Why do i say this? Well at present Formula 1 is owned by Mr. Bernie who holds about 25% of the shares i think, and the rest is held by private banks and finance companies. At the end of the year when the profits are tallied for the "formula 1 corporation", the teams get a nominal amount from tv revenues, but the rest of the profits that the F1 show made throughout the year, like from ticket sales, fees from race track owners, F1 sponsors etc etc are divided among the shareholders of the company and nothing goes to the teams. This has got to stop. If the profit starts to go to the teams instead of these private banks and private owners, then the survival of the teams is guaranteed, thus guaranteeing the survival of the sport.

I know my last point is quite controversial and am sure a lot of people will disagree, but this is just my opinion and you all have a right to your own opinion as well. happy reading :-)

F1 has to stop being a business and return to being a sport.
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Old 11th June 2010, 19:52   #11
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Check out these detailed stats of all overtaking in F1 from 1983-2010 from cliptheapex forums :

LINK

cya
R

For example, one of the many graphs :
Name:  f1_total_passes.png
Views: 1590
Size:  53.8 KB

Last edited by Rehaan : 18th June 2010 at 19:59.
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Old 14th June 2010, 18:01   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Check out these detailed stats of all overtaking in F1 from 1983-2010 :

LINK

cya
R
nice find rehaan..
the one to look at for 2010 is the dry figure.. 3.75 passes per driver for the season is alarming!
the other shocker is the catalunya overtaking figure is lower than monaco!
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Old 8th December 2011, 10:32   #13
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Default Re: The single factor causing the demise of exciting F1 racing

Reviving an old thread!
With the introduction of DRS, even the overtaking as become sort of boring. And I agree with the points raised here. I think reducing the aero effect and reducing tire width should help in a long way to improve close intense racing.
Heck! I slept watching couple of races in 2011 season!
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