Which of these is more important. - Team-BHP

Shan2nu · 11th June 2004, 16:50

After watching Rossi beat guys on better machines. it's evident that the "Man" is the most important factor.

A 10/10 driver in a 8/10 car, can beat a 8/10 driver in a 10/10 car. Unfortunately, it doesn't work the other way around.

Even in F1, we know that the Ferrari is not the fastest or the best handling car but the sheer xperience and talent Shumi has, sees him cross the finish line with others, way behind.

The good driver is always more important to a company than it's cars.

Regards...
Shan2nu

shravan316 · 11th June 2004, 16:53

I think that a good car is more important than a good driver....coz thats what is seen happening in Ferrari. Even a Klien or Bruni can come into Ferrari and win races....

Shan2nu · 11th June 2004, 17:06

Well, it's not as easy as it looks. Driving on the limit for 60-70+ laps without making mistakes is something very few can do. Klien and Bruni wouldn't last that long and even if they do, they wouldn't be able to come first.

Ofcourse if you're looking at a team like Mclaren, no matter how good the drivers are, they'll never win. LOL

To win a race you first have to finish it.

Regards...
Shan2nu

ported_head · 11th June 2004, 17:07

i feel the driver is more important, a machine does things the way it has been programmed to. it's the driver who constantly manipulates to go faster around the track, take better lines, brake later, whatever it takes to lap that much quicker. good drivers finish well even on lesser machinery. perfect example as shantanu already said, Doctor Rossi.

Rtech · 11th June 2004, 17:23

this is a hard one. I think on 2 wheels, the rider is more important. On 4 wheels, you really need a good car. They say that right now, in F1 it is 75% car, 20% driver and 5% luck!

GTO · 11th June 2004, 17:29

I go for the importance of the driver. But then again, it depends on how big a performance gap there is between the cars.

GTO

Tom · 11th June 2004, 18:15

both need each other
the ratio as Rtech mentioned differs b/n various forms of motorsport

Pferdestärke · 11th June 2004, 20:28

Well ofcourse the Driver (The Man) in this case. (as the topic header says "Under racing conditions!!!&quot

.
But IMHO I dont agree with Shan2nu's theory. We all know when schuey was out due to the leg injury, and when Mika Salo (i think) replaced him, he was doing pretty good ..
And a survey held back in 2000 showed that today the drivers go thru so much training (that is similar) their techniques and ability are also very similar (closer to what it was few years back). I dont say that all drivers are same or anything, ofcourse they're different in their rights and Schumacher is the best at the moment and prolly ever.. But that is not the reason why Ferrari is dominating, it is the CAR / Team / Stars (luck-factor) and then the Driver that has made it possible.

Aditya · 12th June 2004, 22:38

This is a tough one. I think it's very much 50-50 here. Put Michael Schumacher in a McLaren and he won't even be able to finish any race. At the same time, put Baumgartner in a Ferrari and he won't be able to match the brilliance of Schumi over a long period of time.
It's a null vote from me.

Hatari · 13th June 2004, 02:18

i think F1 comprises of these 4 factors..
engine : aerodynamics : tyres : driver

dont think there is a fixed percentage u cud allot these in..
it varies circuit to circuit.. car to car and driver to driver

For eg..
say schumi is a tenth quicker than RB in in a ferrari..
now, in a minardi that wud probably be closer to 3 tenths or maybe even 4

interesting fact..
when alonso did a test for minardi ( way back in 2001 )
he was actually 2.5 secs quicker than anyone else in the same car !!
..thats huge

killjoy · 30th June 2004, 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Tom @ June 11 2004,16:45)]both need each other
the ratio as Rtech mentioned differs b/n various forms of motorsport

Jaggu · 30th June 2004, 12:08

depends on the kind of racing vs the team split up (as in strength)

Rehaan · 30th June 2004, 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Hatari @ June 13 2004,00:48)]dont think there is a fixed percentage u cud allot these in..
it varies circuit to circuit.. car to car and driver to driver

Null vote from me 2.

sanket12 · 1st July 2004, 13:53

it definately is the man (under racing circumstances) keeping the example of formula1 aside in all the other forms of motorsport i think it is for all to see that the man makes all the diffrence

View Poll Results: Which of these is more important. - Under racing conditions!!!
The Man	6	66.67%
The Machine	3	33.33%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

11th June 2004, 16:50	#1 (permalink)
Shan2nu Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hubli/Blore - Karnataka - India Posts: 4,075 View My Garage	After watching Rossi beat guys on better machines. it's evident that the "Man" is the most important factor. A 10/10 driver in a 8/10 car, can beat a 8/10 driver in a 10/10 car. Unfortunately, it doesn't work the other way around. Even in F1, we know that the Ferrari is not the fastest or the best handling car but the sheer xperience and talent Shumi has, sees him cross the finish line with others, way behind. The good driver is always more important to a company than it's cars. Regards... Shan2nu __________________ VTEC flyby - youtube.com/watch?v=1AhWJlVRPqE

11th June 2004, 16:53	#2 (permalink)
shravan316 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 993	I think that a good car is more important than a good driver....coz thats what is seen happening in Ferrari. Even a Klien or Bruni can come into Ferrari and win races.... __________________ "You can have it in any colour as long as its black..."-Henry Ford

11th June 2004, 17:06	#3 (permalink)
Shan2nu Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hubli/Blore - Karnataka - India Posts: 4,075 View My Garage	Well, it's not as easy as it looks. Driving on the limit for 60-70+ laps without making mistakes is something very few can do. Klien and Bruni wouldn't last that long and even if they do, they wouldn't be able to come first. Ofcourse if you're looking at a team like Mclaren, no matter how good the drivers are, they'll never win. LOL To win a race you first have to finish it. Regards... Shan2nu __________________ VTEC flyby - youtube.com/watch?v=1AhWJlVRPqE

11th June 2004, 17:07	#4 (permalink)
ported_head Team-BHP Moderator Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai, India Posts: 1,981	i feel the driver is more important, a machine does things the way it has been programmed to. it's the driver who constantly manipulates to go faster around the track, take better lines, brake later, whatever it takes to lap that much quicker. good drivers finish well even on lesser machinery. perfect example as shantanu already said, Doctor Rossi. __________________ BE 6.5 You lose some, you lose some.

11th June 2004, 17:23	#5 (permalink)
Rtech Team-BHP Moderator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,982 View My Garage	this is a hard one. I think on 2 wheels, the rider is more important. On 4 wheels, you really need a good car. They say that right now, in F1 it is 75% car, 20% driver and 5% luck! __________________ He who makes the loudest noise usually has the least to say. Unfortunately they don't realise that and keep at it! ____

11th June 2004, 17:29	#6 (permalink)
GTO Super-Admin Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 12,554 View My Garage	I go for the importance of the driver. But then again, it depends on how big a performance gap there is between the cars. GTO __________________ GTO Change the way you think, and watch the world change around you. Please don't PM for support. Use the Contact Form instead. Please read the NEW Team-BHP FAQ section for all your queries.

11th June 2004, 18:15	#7 (permalink)
Tom BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore, India. Posts: 393	both need each other the ratio as Rtech mentioned differs b/n various forms of motorsport

11th June 2004, 20:28	#8 (permalink)
Pferdestärke BHPian Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 269	Well ofcourse the Driver (The Man) in this case. (as the topic header says "Under racing conditions!!!&quot. But IMHO I dont agree with Shan2nu's theory. We all know when schuey was out due to the leg injury, and when Mika Salo (i think) replaced him, he was doing pretty good .. And a survey held back in 2000 showed that today the drivers go thru so much training (that is similar) their techniques and ability are also very similar (closer to what it was few years back). I dont say that all drivers are same or anything, ofcourse they're different in their rights and Schumacher is the best at the moment and prolly ever.. But that is not the reason why Ferrari is dominating, it is the CAR / Team / Stars (luck-factor) and then the Driver that has made it possible. __________________ Reasons aside.. Its just not a Ferrari. Ferrari?? The Italian Trash..? Kill Bill

12th June 2004, 22:38	#9 (permalink)
Aditya Team-BHP Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,809 View My Garage	This is a tough one. I think it's very much 50-50 here. Put Michael Schumacher in a McLaren and he won't even be able to finish any race. At the same time, put Baumgartner in a Ferrari and he won't be able to match the brilliance of Schumi over a long period of time. It's a null vote from me. __________________ MH 01 T 1476 - Here we go again!!!

13th June 2004, 02:18	#10 (permalink)
Hatari BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: New Delhi Posts: 413	i think F1 comprises of these 4 factors.. engine : aerodynamics : tyres : driver dont think there is a fixed percentage u cud allot these in.. it varies circuit to circuit.. car to car and driver to driver For eg.. say schumi is a tenth quicker than RB in in a ferrari.. now, in a minardi that wud probably be closer to 3 tenths or maybe even 4 interesting fact.. when alonso did a test for minardi ( way back in 2001 ) he was actually 2.5 secs quicker than anyone else in the same car !! ..thats huge

30th June 2004, 12:08	#12 (permalink)
Jaggu Team-BHP Moderator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 3,674	depends on the kind of racing vs the team split up (as in strength) __________________ The strength to change what I can, the inability to accept what I can't, and the incapacity to tell the difference. -Calvin

1st July 2004, 13:53	#14 (permalink)
sanket12 BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: satara Posts: 167	it definately is the man (under racing circumstances) keeping the example of formula1 aside in all the other forms of motorsport i think it is for all to see that the man makes all the diffrence __________________ push it to the limit

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