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Old 30th May 2011, 22:00   #1
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Default Got the BULL! And some queries

Hi BHPians,
Finally got the Bull { CL 500 }. I have ridden REs from younger age but never owned one. So, after owning a series of bikes including RX100, Shogun, RD 350, pulsar 180, pulsar 200 I decided that enough of being a boy...time to become a man. After taking delivery, took it for a ride, the pleasure I got when leaving behind the less mortals in their boyz toyz in traffic lights were too good to be explained. Some things are meant to be experienced. I just love the amount of torque it has. After going through Randhawa's post of the CL500's 4100 Kms review I was really a little bit hessitant in getting one, since it had soo many criticisms. But, it all went away the moment I rode it. The bike is just wonderful, exactly what I needed.

Few hiccups like the big bleb in the tank which the dealer has promised to replace in the first service.What can I say about RE's PDI :-(

I love the suspension, it is good. But, after riding for 50 kms my back got numb, would prefer better seats. I like the shape, but can anything be done for the comfort? I changed the exaust to the upswept one during delivery itself, I remember someone saying it has to be done after 2K Kms otherwise the warreny will be off. But, when I wanted the exaust fitted there was not even a flicker with the dealer, he readily agreed. The exaust sounds fantastic.

The following was a query by me and Mr.Randhawa's fantastic and detailed answer which I feel would be of great help for RE owners follows.

When I cold start it, there is a destinctive tick tick noise like a piston slap, the dealer told that it will vanish once the engine warms up and it did vanish after just about a minute. But, if you hear the sound in the video, you can clearly hear two types of the tick tick noise. One is a high pitched one which dissappears after a few seconds and the other one continues through out. I would like to know the cause. If its pathological, then the cure. The bike would be sound much much smoother without the second low pitched continuous noise which I hate.



Randhawa's answer:

First one which goes away is due to the auto-decomp mechanism fitted into the exhaust cam. Search my thread for a deep insight about its working and inner parts. Its due to the thick viscosity of the oil when it's cold. After warming up it goes away. Other one is due to the clearance in the rocker arm and valve stem. Its just shear luck if someone gets a very silent engine but usually all new engines are quite rough from RE. Because RE does not like to be too precise in clearances the parts are not blue printed for clearances and they just put the parts and do not go in depth to check the clearances for every single bike. In your case the top of the valve which we call it valve stem is in contact with the rocker arm which has a half moon like shape on the bottom and if the valve is not sitting parallel to the rocker arm it takes time to grind the face of the rocker arm so it touches the centre of the valve stem.or in simple words take off a lid of a coke bottle and hold it vertical, take a pencil and touch the flat side of the pencil to the vertical positioned coke bottle lid. Now observe carefully the contact area of the pencil to the lid. If the lid is touching vertically on the head of the pencil when holding vertical the contact area between the two will be centric but if you move the pencil to more or less then 90 degree then observe the contact area on the pencil moving either to left or right of the pencil centre. After some running in period the valve stem grinds into the rocker arm and increases the surface area or contact area between the two which leaves less chance for the valve to bounce on the rocker arm and reduces that tic tic noise in long run.You would hear the tic tic like a clock while riding either during acceleration or deceleration and nothing to worry about it. On a personal note on running in period. Don't take her above 60 for first 500km and if possible get the oil service before 400km even if the dealer says whatsoever. From 500 -2000km start riding on long stretches from 70-90km/hr and give some hard acceleration between 70-90 and not before 70km/hr and blast her after 2k. In my experience if you baby the engine too much then you will have lots of issues regarding noises and pickup. More prominent will be the piston slap which is a inheritance of UCE design. If you do the running in as per my request then you wont be able to hear the piston slap for a long time to come or it will be very less. No matter what RE engineers or dealer says get oil changed at every 3000km if you intent to keep her for long. In USA the manual says to replace oil filter at every 3k so in Indian conditions oil change at 3k is a must.Just dont baby her and your bike will have far better pickup and mileage in long run plus you will eliminate any heating issues too. I can do 120 all day long and I have tried it too with not a single sign of overheating. Even did 140+ non-stop for 45min and still as good as new. My c5 is fastest in town and I only babied her till 500km and under 90 till 2k after that it was all speed..Hope it helps.

My second query:

Thanks a million Randhawa, Iam just seeing some light now. Iam really soo glad you took soo much trouble in explaining it to me soo clearly. Why is that you don't want me to hard accelerate below 70 Kmph, is it so even if Iam in the correct gear? Thanks a lot again.
Randhawa's reply :

Sir, my reason to avoid hard acceleration during running in is;
1.While running in, rings are making their outer shape set into the barrel which in future will help you in better pickup and power. Also if someone is babying the engine during initial running in, what happens is that the the barrel does not get polished properly which leaves a bit harsh surface which helps in uneven wear of barrel and rings in due course which as you would know will create pressure loss and engine oil consumption and poor pickup. As by default the oil ring on the piston(uce) has more play in the piston to move around which results in piston slapping and we really dont want to increase that by any means to minimise slapping noise.I am not sure if you know how a piston slap sounds but you will hear it upto 60km/h or when you have done some hard riding and then you ride slow, its audible then. It's a kind of rubber hammer hitting a metal. Try to find someone with a c5 whom you know for sure has never crossed 70 upto 3-5k and you will clearly hear it from 1st gear to 5th upto 60km/h
2. While running in period there is lot of friction between the rings and barrel which generates lot of heat which can result in annealing of the rings resulting in making the rings brittle and deform its shape. Thats very bad for our engine life.
3. When we hard accelerate, it creates lot of heat and engine at slower speeds being air cooled does not get the cooling it requires.
4. On Hard acceleration the piston gets hotter very fast and the barrel takes some time to heat up/expand or transfer the heat from inside to outer fins slowly. During that time the piston expands faster then the barrel and pushes the rings harder into the barrel resulting in either scuff marks of piston skirt onto the barrel or engine seizing because the piston expands and tightens up the gap between the barrel and rings to not comfortably slide up and down.
5. On shorter gears the rpm is higher then what you would be doing at 70+ in 5th gear, less air flowing through the engine and more heat generated.
6. While not creating too much heat during initial running in, you will be allowing proper annealing of the barrel. you must have heard of heat treatment and we will be doing the same to the barrel allowing proper time to heat up and cool down to get desired result and life out of it.
Once you are done with 2k then ride as hard as you like and shut off engine wherever you stop for more then 60 seconds at traffic light in city. During summers the temp gets dangerously high at slow speeds(city traffic) because our engines are running too lean as it's a lean burn design and not much cooling happening which results in engine oil reaching its flash point. Although the oil we use have a flashpoint of 200 degree + but less flow and too much heat shortens the life of engine oil hence I recommend oil change at every 3k as a compulsory thing to do.
Open long stretch is what our C5 loves and you should give it to her more often to have a happy life together. I seriously think this bike has a mind of its own and a personality to match that of a female. Treat her like that and you shall be rewarded and remember me later.

I thank Randhawa for his guidance and Iam greatful to him. Its just that I might have not ridden the Bull as per Randhawa's advice a few kms, hope it didn't screw up the Bull already.

Dr.Jones

Last edited by GTO : 4th June 2011 at 14:43. Reason: Removing external picture links. Please upload all pics to Team-BHP only (via our attachment system)
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Old 30th May 2011, 22:26   #2
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Default Re: Got the BULL

Quote:
Originally Posted by drjones View Post
Hi BHPians,
Finally got the Bull { CL 500 }. I have ridden REs from younger age but never owned one. So, after owning a series of bikes including RX100, Shogun, RD 350, pulsar 180, pulsar 200 I decided that enough of being a boy...time to become a man. After taking delivery, took it for a ride, the pleasure I got when leaving behind the less mortals in their boyz toyz in traffic lights were too good to be explained. Some things are meant to be experienced. Anyway I'll talk about the experience latter, have a querry.
When I cold start it, there is a destinctive tick tick noise like a piston slap, the dealer told that it will vanish once the engine warms up and it did vanish after just about a minute. But, if you hear the sound in the video, you can clearly hear two types of the tick tick noise. One is a high pitched one which dissappears after a few seconds and the other one continues through out. I would like to know the cause. If its pathological, then the cure. The bike would be sound much much smoother without the second low pitched continuous noise which I hate.

Dr.Jones
Congratulation on your new motorcycle.
These small niggles part and parcel of bullet, i'm sure you must have known this.

Since you graduated from boy to man, bear with it as Mard ko Dard nehin Hota..

Last edited by mobike008 : 31st May 2011 at 17:32. Reason: Edited out the external link
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Old 31st May 2011, 09:25   #3
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Default Re: Got the BULL

Thanks Akas, I know about the niggles you have mentioned, I own a Willys too ;-). Sorry pal, not able to get your Hindi, translation please.
Dr.Jones
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Old 31st May 2011, 09:31   #4
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Default Re: Got the BULL

What he means is "A Man feels no pain"
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Old 31st May 2011, 10:07   #5
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Default Re: Got the BULL

Thanks Navpreet, I think I have to convey this news to my rear end ;-).
Any news about my query guys?
Dr.Jones
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Old 31st May 2011, 10:14   #6
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Default Re: Got the BULL

Congratulations drjones for your Bullet. I hope the bike will serve you well for many years to come. Please upload pictures/videos directly here on team-bhp server. And regarding the niggles I would rather say 'Welcome to the bullet club'. Get the bike checked out by SVC guys in person.

Ride Safe.

Last edited by bluevolt : 31st May 2011 at 10:15.
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Old 31st May 2011, 10:31   #7
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Default Re: Got the BULL

Quote:
Originally Posted by drjones View Post
The bike would be sound much much smoother without the second low pitched continuous noise which I hate.
Congrats on the new bike.

Now read this thread from start to end.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorb...ip-review.html

It will help you understand more.

About "Be a Man" to ride a Bullet. I always have a good laugh at that one.
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Old 31st May 2011, 10:49   #8
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Default Re: Got the BULL

Quote:
Originally Posted by drjones View Post
I have ridden REs from younger age but never owned one. So, after owning a series of bikes including RX100, Shogun, RD 350, pulsar 180, pulsar 200 I decided that enough of being a boy...time to become a man. After taking delivery, took it for a ride, the pleasure I got when leaving behind the less mortals in their boyz toyz in traffic lights were too good to be explained.
Dr.Jones
jones, , most of those boys (except the pulsars) will whip a RE silly in most departments, maybe the 'boyz and their toyz' didnt know you wanted to drag at the lights. oh and im sure i was a man way before i started riding a bullet. happy thumping.
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Old 1st June 2011, 15:58   #9
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Default Re: Got the BULL

Congrats on the bike!

I've temporarily moved your thread to the Assembly Line Section (More Information about this sub-forum (The "Assembly Line" Forum section)).

Please note that Team-BHP does not permit booking / buying experience threads anymore. For the benefit of members & guests alike, it is now imperative to include a complete report on the bike (the riding experience / comfort / features, what you like, what you don't like etc.). To know more about this rule, and for review guidelines on cars (just representative), view this announcement.

Please edit the opening post of this thread and update with a complete riding & ownership report. Pics would be great too! You have the ability to EDIT your post over an indefinite period of time; add more attachments / content / posts to your work-in-progress review thread at your own pace.

Once your thread is complete, you may report the post (Report Posts : Contribute in Maintaining Team-BHP's post quality), and a Team-BHP Moderator will move your thread out to the public forum.

NOTE : After your thread has been taken public, you are permitted to bump it up once to bring it amongst the new post listings.

Thanks for the support!
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Old 1st June 2011, 18:09   #10
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Thanks GTO for shifting to the correct thread.
Thanks Spitfire for the guidance. But, the noise in Randhawa's CL 500 seems to be different than mine, or is it just me?
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Old 4th June 2011, 14:44   #11
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Default Re: Got the BULL! And some queries

Thread moved from the Assembly Line to the public forum
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Old 8th June 2011, 10:13   #12
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Default Re: Got the BULL! And some queries

Hi Randhwa,
Iam following your guide for running in meticulously. Its gonna reach 400 kms, ready for service. Just one more thing, you had mentioned hard acceleration from 70 kmph to 90 kmph after first service, am I supposed to do it 5th gear or can I rip it in lower gears since the rpm is gonna be very different in both { I feel you would have mentioned in 5th gear, but just wanna clarify cause you had repeatedly told not to baby the engine }.
P.S.- The attached photo is a bleb in the tank during delivary. So much for RE PDI :-( .
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Got the BULL! And some queries-imag0012.jpg  

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Old 14th June 2011, 21:22   #13
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Default Re: Got the BULL! And some queries

Got the 500 Kms service for the bull at 420 Kms as per Randhawa's advice. Changed the tank too. I was shocked to see the condition of the oil, It was soo thick and dark{ Totally black with obviously shiny metal dust }. I have seen this change in diesel engines, that also the older generation ones. But in bikes it was surprising. The mesh filter near the drain whole was totally clogged thick muck, disposable filter was ok. Is it common in CL 500s or something wrong with mine ?
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Old 14th June 2011, 21:53   #14
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Default Re: Got the BULL! And some queries

It's common to have the oil turn dark, keep your oil intervals at 3k no matter what your service centre or RE engineer says. Stick with 5th if you can for 70-90 hard acceleration. As in 5th gear and between 70-90 it wont be really that hard acc for the engine. Calm your urge to whack the throttle till 2k then after that you know what to do
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Old 15th June 2011, 22:09   #15
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Default Re: Got the BULL

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Originally Posted by howler View Post
jones, , most of those boys (except the pulsars) will whip a RE silly in most departments, maybe the 'boyz and their toyz' didnt know you wanted to drag at the lights. oh and im sure i was a man way before i started riding a bullet. happy thumping.
Dear Mr.Howler,
I could not answer your comment since I had no idea with my CL500 which is running in. I have had my share of bikes. After the 500 kms service Iam taking my CL500 upto 90 kmph. With the amount of torque and the reserve power it still has at 90 kmph, Iam very sure, except for the CBR 250 and Ninja 250 { since I have not ridden both } it can take any bike available now, this side of 500 cc, for breakfast/lunch and dinner. Let me finish the running in and seriously have a drag and a long distance ride with other bikes and report back to you. Thanks.
Dr.Jones
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