Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Motorbikes


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 4th August 2011, 19:43   #1
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 88
Thanked: Once
Default Is my mechanic ripping me off? Enfield Thunderbird

I have a one year old TBTS which I got used about 3 months ago and has run about 10k kms.
I had a little fall today and the front got bent. I was in full gear so not a scratch on me.
At the garage, I noticed the oil was low and asked him to have a look since I had done an oil change (with him) 2 months/2K kms ago.

He opened up the engine block and we saw the piston rings were not seated properly. The top of the piston had a thick layer of carbon on it, so I think new rings are on order.
Also the piston shaft is not seated tightly on the crankshaft, so it needs to be fixed.

He is also asking me to replace the clutch plate which seemed fine to me (I don't know what a good/bad clutch plate looks like) . I didn't have any issues with the clutch.

The approximate bill he is quoting is 20k. I haven't had a bike in a while but I got my KB 125 rebored for about 5K in 2003. Am I being overcharged here?
P1tBull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2011, 21:07   #2
Senior - BHPian
 
Spitfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Panaji - Goa/Bangalore - Karnataka
Posts: 3,242
Thanked: 692 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (7)
Default Re: Is my mechanic ripping me off? Enfield Thunderbird

I am guessing this is not an authorized center.

Yes bullet internals are costly. But that figure is a possibility if the major parts are being replaced and not merely repaired for play or other smaller bits.

A name of the mechanic or garage would give a much better perspective.
Spitfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2011, 21:08   #3
BHPian
 
jeeva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 604
Thanked: 527 Times
Default Re: Is my mechanic ripping me off? Enfield Thunderbird

Why did he open up the engine in the first place? How much did the bike run with low oil level?
Carbon deposits on the piston and the valve face is quite normal and that's how its supposed to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by P1tBull View Post
Also the piston shaft is not seated tightly on the crankshaft, so it needs to be fixed.
Believe you mean the connecting rod. Again a slight play is quite normal. Unlike the old CI engines which came with floating bushes, the UCE engines comes needle bearings. Do you have some clattering noise during cold starts/climbing uphills?

Quote:
Originally Posted by P1tBull View Post
He is also asking me to replace the clutch plate which seemed fine to me.
Hard gear shifts, juddering and clutch slippage (you open up the throttle, the rpm rises, but the bike doesn't move). signs like that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by P1tBull View Post
The approximate bill he is quoting is 20k. Am I being overcharged here?
I don't think all these things can go this wrong on a 1 year old/10k run bike, unless you rode the bike without oil or the previous owner abused it thoroughly, sensed the works coming up and sold it off. Moreover, the same mech had serviced the bike 2 months back.
I am not sure of the twinspark's spares cost, but IMO, the mech is trying to rip you off.

Last edited by jeeva : 4th August 2011 at 21:22.
jeeva is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2011, 00:00   #4
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 88
Thanked: Once
Default Re: Is my mechanic ripping me off? Enfield Thunderbird

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeeva View Post
Why did he open up the engine in the first place? How much did the bike run with low oil level?
Carbon deposits on the piston and the valve face is quite normal and that's how its supposed to be.
Bike has run possibly a few hundred km on low oil. He opened up the engine because I mentioned that the oil was low very fast and he wanted to check to see what the issue could be.
This was a thick crusty deposit, not what I would expect at 10K kms.
Quote:
Believe you mean the connecting rod. Again a slight play is quite normal. Unlike the old CI engines which came with floating bushes, the UCE engines comes needle bearings. Do you have some clattering noise during cold starts/climbing uphills?
Yes, I mean the connecting rod. I was hearing clattering noise at around 3K rpm but I thought that it was tappet noise.

Quote:
Hard gear shifts, juddering and clutch slippage (you open up the throttle, the rpm rises, but the bike doesn't move). signs like that?
Nope, no problems with the clutch at all. False neutrals once in a while.

Quote:
I don't think all these things can go this wrong on a 1 year old/10k run bike, unless you rode the bike without oil or the previous owner abused it thoroughly, sensed the works coming up and sold it off. Moreover, the same mech had serviced the bike 2 months back.
I am not sure of the twinspark's spares cost, but IMO, the mech is trying to rip you off.
The thing is I did ride the bike without oil or at low oil. In the previous service, there was very little oil removed from the engine oil sump and practically none from the gearbox.

Last edited by P1tBull : 5th August 2011 at 00:04.
P1tBull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2011, 06:52   #5
BHPian
 
Rollin' Thunda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: now Hyderabad
Posts: 288
Thanked: 56 Times
Default Re: Is my mechanic ripping me off? Enfield Thunderbird

Even old Royal Enfield mechanics may not know much about the UCE engine. I would strongly recommend that major repairs/replacements be done only at an authorized service center, unless you are confident that the mechanic has the required knowledge.
Rollin' Thunda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2011, 10:21   #6
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Noida
Posts: 55
Thanked: 18 Times
Default Re: Is my mechanic ripping me off? Enfield Thunderbird

I have an older Enfield (with the CI engine) and while I agree that the parts for newer machines might be different + expensive, I have a feeling that the quote you have received is on the higher side.
Till date the most I've been able to hit in my servicing bills was 6.5K.
As far as the clutch plate is concerned, there's no harm in getting them replaced but keep the replaced ones with you and also have them checked with some other mechanic to verify if they had to be changed.
singhsid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2011, 14:22   #7
BHPian
 
bradhey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Agra
Posts: 288
Thanked: 32 Times
Default Re: Is my mechanic ripping me off? Enfield Thunderbird

The answer to your question is YES he is ripping you off.....!

First of all as you ride your bike, the oil gets distributed into the various parts and appears lower than it actually is........if your bike was running absolutely fine there was no reason to open the engine block.

Dry Carbon deposit on the piston head is quite normal, untill it has oil there, then it needs further investigation.

If you have not experienced any clutch related issues, then there is no need for a clutch overhaul, these plates can last upto 30-40 thousand kilometers depending on use.

The way in which your mech has treated this case makes me doubt his skills.... Sorry but I will not let him touch my bike with that skill level !!
bradhey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2011, 18:54   #8
BHPian
 
Rennjit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Coc, Cbe
Posts: 590
Thanked: 77 Times
Default Re: Is my mechanic ripping me off? Enfield Thunderbird

@ p1tbull, can you get a cost break up from the mech? that'll tell what all he intends to do. For 20k you must be getting a full engine o/h with very many new parts?? But it seems a new ring set & piston's pin- bearing would take care of the issues you mentioned.

Being not much familiar with Uce, i didn't get the 'gearbox oil' part.

Saying for a ref, my CI350 cost some 6.5k last year for new cyl-piston kit, valve guides, all fluids incl forks, clutch o/h, buffing all it aluminum, with new gaskets for all above etc. And that's from RE brand store for no less than 10+ listed jobs in card.
Rennjit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th August 2011, 12:27   #9
BHPian
 
adrian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 751
Thanked: 587 Times
Default Re: Is my mechanic ripping me off? Enfield Thunderbird

Hi, The UCEs have no separate gear box oil. The engine oil serves the purpose of lubricating the integrated gear box.
Regards Adrian

Last edited by adrian : 6th August 2011 at 12:28.
adrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th August 2011, 12:59   #10
Senior - BHPian
 
naveenroy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,319
Thanked: 694 Times
Default Re: Is my mechanic ripping me off? Enfield Thunderbird

Do tell us the mechanic name and where he is located - atleast one of the RE owners would have had a previous experience and can tell you whether he is indeed one of the Ripper Jacks.
naveenroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th August 2011, 03:45   #11
Senior - BHPian
 
ArizonaJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Phoenix, Ariz.
Posts: 1,019
Thanked: 1,994 Times
Default Re: Is my mechanic ripping me off? Enfield Thunderbird

Quote:
Originally Posted by P1tBull View Post
I have a one year old TBTS which I got used about 3 months ago and has run about 10k kms.
...
At the garage, I noticed the oil was low and asked him to have a look since I had done an oil change (with him) 2 months/2K kms ago.

He opened up the engine block and we saw the piston rings were not seated properly. The top of the piston had a thick layer of carbon on it, so I think new rings are on order.
Also the piston shaft is not seated tightly on the crankshaft, so it needs to be fixed.

He is also asking me to replace the clutch plate which seemed fine to me (I don't know what a good/bad clutch plate looks like) . I didn't have any issues with the clutch.

The approximate bill he is quoting is 20k. I haven't had a bike in a while but I got my KB 125 rebored for about 5K in 2003. Am I being overcharged here?
Just a few thoughts, if I may.

As the mechanic has already disassembled the upper half of the engine having new piston rings installed only makes sense at this stage.
Unless there are gouges in the cylinder wall, re-honing the bore to slightly roughen it so that the new piston rings can "seat" properly and installing new piston rings and replacing the necessary gaskets should be all that is required to accomplish this.

If the mechanic has removed the piston from the connecting rod, the snap rings that retain the wrist (gudgeon) pin should also be replaced. Re-using these snap rings is asking for severe problems down the road.

That said, unless the engine was producing large amounts of smoke when it was running down the road there was very likely little, if anything wrong with the piston, the rings or the cylinder. Therefore, in my opinion, disassembling the upper half of the engine was totally unnecessary and I would question the wisdom of a mechanic who felt it necessary to even suggest doing this.

As was mentioned by others, a slight sideways looseness of the connecting rod is common with rolling element roller or needle bearings. Unless one of the rolling elements was broken it should not need replacing.
A lack of large bits of hardened steel in the engine would indicate that this had not occurred.
Replacing the lower connecting rod bearing in a UCE (assuming that is what your bikes engine is) is not a simple thing. In my repair manual the connecting rod, the lower bearing and the crankshaft are considered irreparable and are listed as a single unit.

As for the clutch plates, unless they were slipping and allowing the engine to speed up without showing any increase in the motorcycles acceleration they probably didn't need replacing.
I feel you should have the option of asking for them to be replaced or left as they are.

As for the price of the repair, being an American I am totally unfamiliar with the costs of parts and labor in India so I cannot comment on this except to say that if we are speaking of rupee's, at the current rate of exchange 20K would be equal to about $442 (American dollars) which would not be considered high for this amount of work in America.
Then, I should add that mechanics in America do charge what I consider excessively high prices for their time and energy.
ArizonaJim is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th August 2011, 21:14   #12
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 88
Thanked: Once
Default Re: Is my mechanic ripping me off? Enfield Thunderbird

Sorry for the late reply. Its pretty much done. Just want to know how much I got ripped off by.
Engine Packing - 850/-
Engine Oil Seal - 350/-
Engine Bearings - 1800/-
Connecting Rod Offset - 3800/-
Rings - 1200/-
Head Valves - 820/-
Engine Buffing - 2800/-
Fork Cone set - 380/-
Fork Oil Seal - 220/-
Gearbox Bearings - 1100/-
Lathe charges - 1200/-

The mechanic's name is Rizwan and his garage is on Lower Agaram Road in Ejipura, right opposite the Post Office.
P1tBull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th August 2011, 23:59   #13
BHPian
 
Leepower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Maharashtra
Posts: 366
Thanked: 70 Times
Default Re: Is my mechanic ripping me off? Enfield Thunderbird

Changing gearbox bearing at 10K???? Did your bike's gear have some issues??? I though it was your bike's clutch that had some problems. Didn't he change that??? Lathe charge for what??? 3800 for connection rod offset-- did he change the connection rod ??? This link will give you some clue about what is a connection rod
Piston Pin Offset
Engine buffing at 10K, man I ride a Cast Iron and we do that only after a long long time!!!
Basically, he has done a lot of unnecessary work for an issue which would have been solved by changing the engine bearing and may be the piston rings. How much did he charge for the engine oil??? How much did he put??? That is where a customer usually gets ripped off. Pull out the dip stick and check the thickness of the oil. And tell us. Cheers,
Sam
Leepower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2011, 10:24   #14
BHPian
 
Rennjit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Coc, Cbe
Posts: 590
Thanked: 77 Times
Default Re: Is my mechanic ripping me off? Enfield Thunderbird

Quote:
Originally Posted by P1tBull View Post
Bike has run possibly a few hundred km on low oil. He opened up the engine because I mentioned that the oil was low very fast ...
The thing is I did ride the bike without oil or at low oil. ...
Was the level too low that the pump can't pick?
I think not, if it was engine would have faced at least a piston seizure.

Quote:
and he wanted to check to see what the issue could be. ...
Sure he got to *see* the engine internals but did he find any *issue*?
Not really, huh? from whats posted here all he did was a full overhaul for no reason. Without a prob identified, i agree to what Leepower rightly said in prev post.

Leave it here & take care of your ride hoping it'll have trouble free miles ahead. cheers !
Rennjit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2011, 10:38   #15
BHPian
 
akas_chauhan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 595
Thanked: 22 Times
Default Re: Is my mechanic ripping me off? Enfield Thunderbird

I felt the same, he is ripping you. Why did not you go to Teknik or Bannerghatta road authorized service center. I went to 3-4 different mechanics and service center. Finally my verdict, i trust service center more than the reputed bangalore bullet mechanics. Those so called reputed bullet mechanics only talk technical languages without much Output.

For example i went to a reputed mechanic in Gandhi Bazar for a faulty headlight, it was short circuit and fuse blows up every now and then. He replaced almost everything except the wiring, which costed me around 3K. Problem still persists. I asked him why he can not just do a rewiring, which he replied he need to figure out root cause of problem, which is good, but he never got root cause.

I return to service center, they did no RCA and just rewiring, costed around 1500, but issue resolved.

PS: This is how reputed blore mech works, how can you go to a roadside mechanic and open engine?
akas_chauhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mechanic for RE Thunderbird in Vadodara ricky_1605 Motorbikes 0 28th July 2010 11:43
Is Hyundai ripping off my friend for no reason? inder_s1 Technical Stuff 11 5th November 2008 15:02
Ripping vids to the Hd manson Shifting gears 6 13th October 2006 13:48
Ripping Audio from Video ScarySkulls Shifting gears 2 7th November 2005 20:23


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 08:39.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks