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Old 25th September 2011, 18:01   #1
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Unhappy Strange issue with Tubeless tyres in P180 UG4

I have a P180 UG4, almost 2 years old now. I have done close to 18K kms. For a month now I have been having issue with the rear tyre of the bike. The bike is shod with OEM MRF Zapper C 120/80-17 Tubeless tyre. For the past month, there had been issues with the tyre leaking air and pressure drops by 4-5 PSI everyday.
I had taken the bike to XL TyrePoint near velachery, chennai. They examined the tyre and found nothing wrong with it, they suspected there could be leakage on the valve and replaced the pin. Checked after a couple of days and still the problem existed. Took it back to the shop. They checked it again and did not find anything on the tyre. On close examination they informed me that there is a slight leakage in the rim (where the tyre seals against the wheel). I couldn't see anything though. They sugested this might be due to corrosion and they had to take the wheel apart, clean it and re-paint it. I could not believe this as the wheel looked perfect from the outside, anyway i was ready to go for it. They later informed they cannot do this and I had to take to it to a workshop.
The bike was anyway due for Service, hence I took it to the BajajASS at MountRd, chennai (This centre BTW is a good 15 - 20 kms from my place, still i take it there due to previous experience from 3 different BajajASS in and around my place).
I had complained to the SA regarding the issue with the tyre, he said he will look into it. After taking it back, i still found air leakage. Went back to the centre and the SA told me to check with LAL Tyres (opposite of Sathyam Theatre) , he informed that these are the guys who look into these issues. Went there, they could'nt find anything either(This was a VERY small shop, not sure if they had proper equipment to remove TL tyres).
Then called up a couple of tyre shops, surprised to know none of them care much about Motorcycles. They simply say they dont deal with Motorcycles. Finally called up the MRF Tyredrome to find out if they can do anything. They too denied and informed that they dont deal with motorcycles! The person at MRF Tyre drome suggested a place - MAS tyre centre in Alwarper. He informed that these guys are the Franchise for MRF Tyres.
Called up and later took the bike to there yesterday. First they were hesitant to look at the bike stating that Saturday is the busy day and cannot waste time on this today(Cars come for tyre replacement, and if they are held up with me for an issue which would'nt pay them much, you get the picture.) I was furious on hearing this, I drove a good 40 mins from my place searching for their shop in Mid day and they were asking me to come back some other day because this issue would not make much money . I fired the supervisor and finally he had a person look into the issue, after some 20 mins of brushing the tyre with soap water, he came up with the same conclusion as the guys as XL tyre point that there could be issues with the Wheel itself. When i told him there is no corrsion as informed by the BajajASS guys, he gave me a theory that the wheel could have developed some Hairline crack due to some Bump on the road. Now I dont know what to believe! I was under the impression that the last thing would be to change the Tyre, but this guy claims that even if the tyre is changed the problem would still remain. He also suggested in the mean time I can put a tube inside the tyre and use it for some 10k kms. I was not sure of this mod and would rather change the tyre.
All confused, I went back to the BajajASS right after that and informed the SA on the situation. He asked me to bring back the bike tomorrow and he will see what can be done.

Here are my doubts/queries:
- Can alloywheels develop hairline cracks?
- Is there any specialized tyre centres (In Chennai) which looks into motorcycles?
- The BajajASS guys tend speak as if the tyres/wheels are to be taken care by the customer elsewhere and Service centre cannot look into this. I was taken aback by this as they were supplied as part of OEM along with the bike. I do understand tyres are subject to wear and tear and is not covered by Warranty. What about the wheels? Are they covered under warranty? (Not much info available on the owner's manual)
- If i had to go for a tyre replacement, I was checking the Prices of Zapper Vyde and the MRF guys told me in the range of Rs.2900 for the rear. I was planning instead to go for any imported ones like Pirelli Speeddemons or Michelin Siracs. What would be price of these and where i can get genuine goods. Heard stories about fake ones in GP road, not ready to spend and later find it a fake!.
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Old 27th September 2011, 17:09   #2
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Default Re: Strange issue with Tubeless tyres in P180 UG4

Got a call from the Service centre today.

The said that the rim lining has been damaged due to a previous puncture repair job. Since the tyre has run for more than 5K kms, this is not covered under warranty and I have to replace the tyre. They also confirmed that the wheel is fine.

Wanted to know where i can get imported tyres and the price. I enquired LAL Enterprises, they currently do not have any stock and not sure when it will be avaialble.

The Size im looking for is 120/80 R17, preferrably Pirelly Sport Demon.

Mods, I see there is a separate section for wheels\tyres, if needed please move this thread to that section.
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Old 29th September 2011, 18:51   #3
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Default Re: Strange issue with Tubeless tyres in P180 UG4

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Originally Posted by knaveen View Post

Got a call from the Service centre today.

The said that the rim lining has been damaged due to a previous puncture repair job. Since the tyre has run for more than 5K kms, this is not covered under warranty and I have to replace the tyre. They also confirmed that the wheel is fine.

Wanted to know where i can get imported tyres and the price. I enquired LAL Enterprises, they currently do not have any stock and not sure when it will be avaialble.

The Size im looking for is 120/80 R17, preferrably Pirelly Sport Demon.
I had this issue when I changed from Tube to Tubeless in my Previous P180 UG3. I took it to the MRF showroom near Cognizant Thoraipakkam.

After 2 or 3 visits, the guy was able to determine the issue. There was some grime on the insides of the rim. He cleaned the rim thoroughly and the issue vanished.

I just cannot believe the experiences you had. Have you tried tyrestore on Gream's road.

http://www.tyrestore.in

Meet Deepak there and tell him you're visiting him based on team bhp's recommendation and also tell him that you've tried everywhere else.

I am pretty sure they will fix your problem - whether you need a repair or replacement.

Last edited by para_7k : 29th September 2011 at 18:53.
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Old 29th September 2011, 19:23   #4
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Default Re: Strange issue with Tubeless tyres in P180 UG4

I had the same problem of rim leaking when i changed my tires to Michelin pilot sporty from the stock zapper C on my UG3.

Do this- Remove the tire completely from the rim.Wash the insides of the rim thoroughly.also clean the portion of the tire that sits on the rim.Later fix the tyre onto the rim.Inflate to 40 PSI. Then bounce the tire from a height of 5 feet at different positions some 10 times. Then fit back the tire,reduce the pressure and drive. You wont face this problem ever again.

If the tyre wallah refuses to do such lengthy procedure,tell him you would pay him Rs 20 extra for all this! He will do it.

For tire options, i suggest you go for Michelin Sirac or Pirelli sport demon.If you can get hold of Ninja rear tire-130/70-17 of IRC make then it would be awesome.Ask bajaj probiking for that.Dont go back on the MRF's.Unless ofcourse you get hold of the new R15's rear tires which are soft compound.But i doubt they would be available in the market so soon
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Old 30th September 2011, 04:04   #5
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Default Re: Strange issue with Tubeless tyres in P180 UG4

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Originally Posted by para_7k View Post
I had this issue when I changed from Tube to Tubeless in my Previous P180 UG3. I took it to the MRF showroom near Cognizant Thoraipakkam.
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.
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I am pretty sure they will fix your problem - whether you need a repair or replacement.
Thanks for the suggestion mate. Will visit the shop by today or tomorrow.

These big shops with proper equipments do not have time to do this, will try my luck anyways. Im worried about the local tyrewallahs damaging the tyre when unmounting it. Will try if the IRCs are available somewhere, this will be the first choice when tyre change is needed.
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Old 30th September 2011, 11:01   #6
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Default Re: Strange issue with Tubeless tyres in P180 UG4

There was some issue with when i was posting the last reply. The site refreshed when i tried to response.
@sagarpadaki - These big shops with proper equipments do not have time to do this, will try my luck anyways. Im worried about the local tyrewallahs damaging the tyre when unmounting it. Will try if the IRCs are available somewhere, this will be the first choice when tyre change is needed.
@para_7k - Thanks for the suggestion mate. Will visit the shop by today or tomorrow.

Mods: Delete the last reply as this is a duplicate. I think i tried something stupid with the multi-quote option
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Old 30th September 2011, 14:24   #7
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Default Re: Strange issue with Tubeless tyres in P180 UG4

Quote:
Originally Posted by knaveen View Post
Here are my doubts/queries:
- Can alloywheels develop hairline cracks?
- Is there any specialized tyre centres (In Chennai) which looks into motorcycles?
Alloy wheels can develop hairline cracks and also bend if you land into a pothole at high speeds or if the impact to the said wheel is pretty hard. Alloy wheels are lighter and stronger than conventional steel rims but they can only withstand stress to a certain extent.

Speak to Deepak at Tyrestore. You can refer my name as he knows me pretty well. If needed remind him that i had bought michelins from him for my esteem few years back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by knaveen View Post
Wanted to know where i can get imported tyres and the price. I enquired LAL Enterprises, they currently do not have any stock and not sure when it will be avaialble.

The Size im looking for is 120/80 R17, preferrably Pirelly Sport Demon.
Tyrestore stocks imported tires but i am not sure if they have tires in the size you are looking for. IRC's are good and they come as factory fitment on the ninja's but i would suggest Pirelli Sport Demon over the IRC's as they offer better grip. Check with ninja owners from Chennai. They will be able to guide you on where you can get the Pirelli's for your bike.

Last edited by n_aditya : 30th September 2011 at 14:25.
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Old 1st October 2011, 01:45   #8
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Thank you all for the suggestions.

Went to the Tyrestore this afternoon. Boy, I was surprised. Went straight to the cabin and asked for Deepak as suggested by para_7k and n_aditya.

Realised the person whom I asked was Deepak’s father and Deepak was on a phone call. He asked me what was the issue and I said the whole story. He listened patiently and said that issues in rim leak are to be taken care by the manufacturer as this would warrant a replacement. If this was done by service centre guys, he was doubtful there is anything can be done. He said that he can dismount the tyre, clean the rim and remount it, still the results cannot be assured. Most likely the problem is likely to remain. He also mentioned that this would anyways be done for a charge, hence he was hesitant to do this(Read not to charge without resolving the issue!).

He gave me an option that I can put in a tube and make the tyre usable. This again will not be done in his store as it is prone to give out problems, he suggested that I can take it to any tyrewallah to get this done.

I liked his approach of trying to resolve the issue, instead of just selling something. I asked him what would happen if I change the tyre. He was sure that the problem would be resolved.

Enquired him about the models in Pirelli and Michelin. IRC i guess was not available. He gave the suitable tyre sizes in the ranges of 120/130 from both the companies. Zeroed in on Pirelli Sport Demon and I wanted the 120/80 R17. This was not in stock at the moment, and Deepak suggested an upgrade to the 130/70 R17. I was worried if this would foul with the swingarm/chain, he assured nothing of that sort would happen. Confirmed the tyre for purchase.

The time I went to the store was at lunch hour, and the workers were having food. I was ready to wait anyways, Deepak’s dad was very courteous and made sure that I was comfortable inside the cabin.

He explained some of the perspectives of his business, and explained me how times were when they started off. He explained me the reasons for getting into the niche market of selling high end tyres. Pretty interesting stuff, he sure knows what he does!.

Later I wanted to see how the tyre is fitted. Incidentally the person returned from lunch and just started by taking off the wheel from the bike. Pneumatic machines were used for removing the tyre. He meticulously wiped/brushed the wheel and particularly at the rim to make sure that there was no grime. Once the wheel was cleaned up, he mounted it on the machine and then lubricated the tyre and wheel. He was very careful to make sure no damage was done to the tyre. Pliers were almost not used. Once the fitment was done, he filled up air and closely inspected the rim for any air leakages. Checked both the sides for close 10 mins to make sure.

Then the Valve pin was replaced with a new one. I enquired about Nitrogen filling to Deepak’s dad and he gave it as a freebie . Later the tyre was mounted on the bike.
Deepak wanted me to ride the bike first to make sure brakes, etc were proper. I did so and everything seemed fine. He told me to ride sanely for the first 50 kms to know about the tyre(Read don’t try any stunts on the drive back!), he asked me to get used to the grip and the response before exploring further. Made the payment and was happy!.


First impression:
Grip has noticeably increased, did not cross 60kph but braking was more surefooted. This is more apparent in loose, gravelly surfaces. The MRF that was there, started to feel worn out at times especially in turns, where you can feel it sliding out. This is completely absent. One thing that I noticed is that there is a slight increase in vibrations on the handlebar, not sure if it is due to excess pressure. I have filled up 32PSI as suggested at the store. Is this correct pressure?, I used to have it at 28PSI in the MRFs as suggested by the manufacturer. I ride mostly alone.

All in all, a very satisfied customer! This is one store that knows how to treat people. Will give a 5/5!
@n_aditya - i was riding back from the shop by the time your post was added. Happy to know i made a right decision.

Enough of the story,Will check tomorrow if there is any drastic changes in Tyre pressure

Last edited by n_aditya : 4th October 2011 at 19:07. Reason: font and other text formatting tags removed
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Old 1st October 2011, 17:56   #9
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Default Re: Strange issue with Tubeless tyres in P180 UG4

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Thank you all for the suggestions [FONT=Wingdings][/FONT]
We all know the place and we directed you. When I went there the first time and came back, I made up my mind not to go anywhere else.

We rarely come across such people.

My next questions are -

How much did you pay for the tyre ?

What is your experience in terms of ride/grip/handling ?

EDIT: You have upsized right ? What is the implication on the warranty ?

Last edited by para_7k : 1st October 2011 at 17:57.
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Old 1st October 2011, 22:23   #10
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Default Re: Strange issue with Tubeless tyres in P180 UG4

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Originally Posted by para_7k View Post
We all know the place and we directed you. When I went there the first time and came back, I made up my mind not to go anywhere else.

We rarely come across such people.

My next questions are -

How much did you pay for the tyre ?

What is your experience in terms of ride/grip/handling ?

EDIT: You have upsized right ? What is the implication on the warranty ?
The tyre costed me Rs.3500. Nothing extra for fitment, nitrogen filling.

Ride quality has not changed much. Grip and handling has improved by a good margin, braking has improved a lot. During hard braking on loose surfaces, tyre lockup/sliding has reduced.

One minor issue, is that chain noise has increased. Lubricated the chain with SAE90 oil. Still it remains, chain tension is proper and there is adequate play. Not sure if this is because of the tyre change. When lubricating the chain, how to avoid the oil splash on tyres?. This happens almost everytime i lubricate, took care not to overdo it still this happens

2 yr warranty ended on the bike by 29th Sept . This was the reason why i visited the service center twice to make sure no damages on the wheel.
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Old 2nd October 2011, 21:20   #11
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Default Re: Strange issue with Tubeless tyres in P180 UG4

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The tyre costed me Rs.3500. Nothing extra for fitment, nitrogen filling.

Ride quality has not changed much. Grip and handling has improved by a good margin, braking has improved a lot. During hard braking on loose surfaces, tyre lockup/sliding has reduced.

One minor issue, is that chain noise has increased. Lubricated the chain with SAE90 oil. Still it remains, chain tension is proper and there is adequate play. Not sure if this is because of the tyre change. When lubricating the chain, how to avoid the oil splash on tyres?. This happens almost everytime i lubricate, took care not to overdo it still this happens

2 yr warranty ended on the bike by 29th Sept . This was the reason why i visited the service center twice to make sure no damages on the wheel.

Good to hear that the problem has been solved with new tyre.My question is ,from where was the air leaking previously?

Please post some pics of the tyre! Regarding chain noise,Take it to Bajaj and ask them to remove the chain,clean it,adjust the tension and put it back,It will remove the noise. The reason is,when tyre change happens,the chain setting and alignment might get changed which cant be rectified with the chain in its place.Try it out,or ask the Bajaj persons to solve this problem
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Old 4th October 2011, 02:42   #12
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Default Re: Strange issue with Tubeless tyres in P180 UG4

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Good to hear that the problem has been solved with new tyre.My question is ,from where was the air leaking previously?

Please post some pics of the tyre! Regarding chain noise,Take it to Bajaj and ask them to remove the chain,clean it,adjust the tension and put it back,It will remove the noise. The reason is,when tyre change happens,the chain setting and alignment might get changed which cant be rectified with the chain in its place.Try it out,or ask the Bajaj persons to solve this problem
Attached the pic. Sorry about the quality, the lighting was harsh.

I guess the tyre was leaking in the lining inside the rim. Will take it to the Bajaj guys this weekend.
Attached Thumbnails
Strange issue with Tubeless tyres in P180 UG4-20111003_171505_980.jpg  

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Old 4th October 2011, 19:18   #13
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Default Re: Strange issue with Tubeless tyres in P180 UG4

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Grip and handling has improved by a good margin, braking has improved a lot. During hard braking on loose surfaces, tyre lockup/sliding has reduced.

One minor issue, is that chain noise has increased. Lubricated the chain with SAE90 oil. Still it remains, chain tension is proper and there is adequate play. Not sure if this is because of the tyre change. When lubricating the chain, how to avoid the oil splash on tyres?. This happens almost everytime i lubricate, took care not to overdo it still this happens
I just changed the rear tire on my ninja to Pirelli Sport Demon too. Yet to do a proper ride and notice the difference but this tire is highly recommended by a lot of folks, even abroad (for the ninja). Ride sedately for the next 100-200 kms so the surface wears off and the rubber in the tire breaks in well. After this you will find better grip and also cornering speeds will improve. I would suggest you to change the front tire too if you intend to corner hard as the compounds between the MRF on the front and PSD on the rear are different and could lead to issues during high speed cornering.

The tire has no relation to your chain. Here is what you can do to clean and lube your chain.

Pour some amount of diesel in a cup and use an old toothbrush to clean the chain. Dip the brush in the diesel and clean the chain with this. Once the entire length of the chain is clean (including between the rollers and o-rings) use a chain lube such as Motul Chain Lube, OKS Chain Lube, or Tribocor chain lube to lubricate the chain.

Chain lubes are very sticky and are specifically designed to lube the chain. It ensures that the lube does not get flung off the chain due to rotation of the wheel (kinetic energies at play). Once the chain is lubed, leave it for a few hours to dry before you ride out. If the sound still persists, get the sprockets checked.

Last edited by n_aditya : 4th October 2011 at 19:19.
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Old 5th October 2011, 15:40   #14
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Default Re: Strange issue with Tubeless tyres in P180 UG4

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I just changed the rear tire on my ninja to Pirelli Sport Demon too. Yet to do a proper ride and notice the difference but this tire is highly recommended by a lot of folks, even abroad (for the ninja). Ride sedately for the next 100-200 kms so the surface wears off and the rubber in the tire breaks in well. After this you will find better grip and also cornering speeds will improve. I would suggest you to change the front tire too if you intend to corner hard as the compounds between the MRF on the front and PSD on the rear are different and could lead to issues during high speed cornering.

The tire has no relation to your chain. Here is what you can do to clean and lube your chain.

Pour some amount of diesel in a cup and use an old toothbrush to clean the chain. Dip the brush in the diesel and clean the chain with this. Once the entire length of the chain is clean (including between the rollers and o-rings) use a chain lube such as Motul Chain Lube, OKS Chain Lube, or Tribocor chain lube to lubricate the chain.

Chain lubes are very sticky and are specifically designed to lube the chain. It ensures that the lube does not get flung off the chain due to rotation of the wheel (kinetic energies at play). Once the chain is lubed, leave it for a few hours to dry before you ride out. If the sound still persists, get the sprockets checked.
I had the idea to change the front tyres as well, incidentally last night the front tyre was flat. Could't find any options at 2AM, hence left it at the office and took a cab back home. Got the tyre checked today at XL tyre point, velachery. The tyre looked fine, no leakages anywhere. There was one puncture job which failed earlier, even that was good. No clue on how the tyre lost air. Asked them to change the valve pin and filled it with nitrogen. For this they charged me Rs.70 . Anyways the tyre is good now, will go for a change in a month or two. The front tyre (PSD 100/80 R17) costs close to Rs.2700, when i checked at tyrestore when i was there.

Tried the toothbrush cleaning once in the past, that time i used petrol instead of diesel (Was lazy to get diesel only for this, petrol was available from the bike!). That was a lot messy and in the end i did not get any huge difference. Lubed it with SAE90 oil though, will try with the chain Lube when i do this for the next time. Is it Ok to get the chain off the bike(with a mech's help ofcourse) and dip it in Kerosene/diesel and do the same procedure?
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Old 5th October 2011, 18:01   #15
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Default Re: Strange issue with Tubeless tyres in P180 UG4

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Tried the toothbrush cleaning once in the past, that time i used petrol instead of diesel. That was a lot messy and in the end i did not get any huge difference. Lubed it with SAE90 oil though, will try with the chain Lube when i do this for the next time. Is it Ok to get the chain off the bike(with a mech's help ofcourse) and dip it in Kerosene/diesel and do the same procedure?
Diesel is better when it comes to removing grime and muck since it has detergent like properties and fares a lot better than petrol for cleaning such parts. You can use the same method suggested to get the oil stains off the wheels.

If you want you can get a mechanic to remove the chain and sprockets and clean them, but the process is tedious and cumbersome, although thorough. Try the toothbrush method, it works wonders too. Once you clean the chain with diesel, leave it for around 20 mins and then lube the chain with a chain lube. You might want to wash the bike before lubing the chain instead of waiting around for those 20 mins. Once lubed, leave the bike aside for a few hours so the lube penetrates all the O-rings and rollers. The chain lube is very sticky and wont fling onto your wheel as much as the SAE90 oil does.

Last edited by n_aditya : 5th October 2011 at 18:03.
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