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Old 11th December 2011, 19:15   #1
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Default Yamaha R15 V2.0- A query

Hey guys,

I had gotten myself a red R15 V2.0 recently. The bike has been great so far, with the killer aspect being her looks. Today, I took her out on a long drive (To Bidar, which is 125 Kms from where I stay). But there I was in for some disappointment.

I was riding with a Pillion, and since the roads (NH9) were quite good, I decided to do a quick top speed test. Now, in normal riding, I shift at 4-5k rpm, and that is what I did here as well. Shift from gears 1-5 at ~4.5k RPM, and gave her the beans in 6th gear. The vehicle reached 106 Km/Hr, and the speedo got stuck there. The RPM was refusing to budge after 7.5k. I was disappointed, as I had expected at least 115-120 Km/hr with a pillion. However, the bike goes upto 110 Km/Hr in fifth (till around 9k RPM), and then in sixth somehow manages 112 odd. I managed a top speed of 114 Km/hr that way. (All this was only when the roads were very clear, and in a 4 laned highway).

Yes, the bike is relatively new (has done 640 Kms till date, and first service is still pending, and I don't think a short top speed burst would do it much harm, would it?), but this incident has now left me tad disappointed. Is there anything wrong in my method of riding? Can other R15 owners throw some light as to how they achieve higher speeds, or does the pillion here make so much of a difference?

Last edited by FanaticOnWheels : 11th December 2011 at 19:17.
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Old 11th December 2011, 20:24   #2
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Default Re: The R15 - A query

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Originally Posted by FanaticOnWheels View Post
I had gotten myself...here make so much of a difference?
First of all, I'm not sure about what's the instructions for R15 V2 on owner's manual for the break in procedure. So most my answers will be from generalized & experience perspective.

Without changing your engine oil, its not advisable to open up the throttle. Anyway, based on what you said, I assume you open up occasionally, from that perspective, keep a keen watch on the roughness in your engine. If you even think its getting a little rough, simply go ahead & change the engine oil + filter mandatory.

On a 2S, with a brand new cylinder piston kit, I changed the first engine oil at 1600 Kms & by then I'd opened up the throttle completely.

Call me stupid or paranoid, but, its better to change the engine oil + filter 2-3 times on these 4jokes. But your engine roughness is the key to detect it.

On obtaining higher speeds, I'd suggest revving upto 80% of redline & shifting the gear (to be safe) & near to redline very occasionally. I suggest doing this ONLY after you complete after 1500 Kms or so to be on safer side.
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Old 11th December 2011, 20:30   #3
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Default Re: The R15 - A query

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Originally Posted by aargee View Post
First of all, I'm not sure about what's the instructions for R15 V2 on owner's manual for the break in procedure. So most my answers will be from generalized & experience perspective.

Without changing your engine oil, its not advisable to open up the throttle. Anyway, based on what you said, I assume you open up occasionally, from that perspective, keep a keen watch on the roughness in your engine. If you even think its getting a little rough, simply go ahead & change the engine oil + filter mandatory.

On a 2S, with a brand new cylinder piston kit, I changed the first engine oil at 1600 Kms & by then I'd opened up the throttle completely.

Call me stupid or paranoid, but, its better to change the engine oil + filter 2-3 times on these 4jokes. But your engine roughness is the key to detect it.

On obtaining higher speeds, I'd suggest revving upto 80% of redline & shifting the gear (to be safe) & near to redline very occasionally. I suggest doing this ONLY after you complete after 1500 Kms or so to be on safer side.
Thanks for the reply. This was the only time I had tried to check the top end of the bike out, otherwise I generally remain within 5k RPM max (Since today's was a long trip, I was maintaining 6k-6.5k constantly, with occasional 100 km/hr bursts). The engine was butter smooth, no signs of roughness at all. Just that the needle refusing to budge after 7.5k got me surprised. (Of course, I came through the lower gears at 4k).

Looking at other posts on the R15 by various users, I had expected the bike to touch 120 with relative ease, but I was totally wrong. Either I think I need more time to understand the bike, or probably I should wait till 1000 Kms are clocked on the bike. I'll try out your suggestion of checking the top end out after 1.5k Kms.
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Old 11th December 2011, 20:31   #4
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Default Re: The R15 - A query

Quote:
Originally Posted by aargee View Post
First of all, I'm not sure about what's the instructions for R15 V2 on owner's manual for the break in procedure. So most my answers will be from generalized & experience perspective.

Without changing your engine oil, its not advisable to open up the throttle. Anyway, based on what you said, I assume you open up occasionally, from that perspective, keep a keen watch on the roughness in your engine. If you even think its getting a little rough, simply go ahead & change the engine oil + filter mandatory.

On a 2S, with a brand new cylinder piston kit, I changed the first engine oil at 1600 Kms & by then I'd opened up the throttle completely.

Call me stupid or paranoid, but, its better to change the engine oil + filter 2-3 times on these 4jokes. But your engine roughness is the key to detect it.

On obtaining higher speeds, I'd suggest revving upto 80% of redline & shifting the gear (to be safe) & near to redline very occasionally. I suggest doing this ONLY after you complete after 1500 Kms or so to be on safer side.
Agreed.
You need to redline if you wish to do top speeds. R15 is capable of >130kmph. So be more optimistic next time and rev all the way upto 7k then slot into the next gear. Bike will give you slightly rough noises when you rev that high. But hey, you're astride a bike that likes being revved, so give it what it likes.
But yeah, as RG said, take care of your breaking in as well.
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Old 11th December 2011, 20:39   #5
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Default Re: The R15 - A query

Well, you had to do this to your new bike, did'nt you? I mean, reaching 9K and all during the break in period.

Asking for feedback on your riding habits, at this point, after making this attempt, does not make a strong case for itself. You should have asked for it before, or researched the tonnes of breaking in advice already available on the forum.

I hope, that this is not just the start of your disappointments, now, buddy.

Last edited by SilkDrive : 11th December 2011 at 20:42.
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Old 11th December 2011, 22:26   #6
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Default Re: The R15 - A query

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Originally Posted by SilkDrive View Post
Well, you had to do this to your new bike, did'nt you? I mean, reaching 9K and all during the break in period.

Asking for feedback on your riding habits, at this point, after making this attempt, does not make a strong case for itself. You should have asked for it before, or researched the tonnes of breaking in advice already available on the forum.

I hope, that this is not just the start of your disappointments, now, buddy.
I was well aware of what I was doing buddy. Like I said, the bike was maintained at 4-5k RPM for 95% of its time with me. This was, I reiterate, an act which was for around 4-5 minutes. I have looked up on the internet, and from what I collated, it is not bad if short, high speed bursts are done.

The main reason this question was put up is simple. I expected a better top end (for the fleeting moment when I opened up the throttle), and I got something less. Though I have done research on the bike, and I realize that this is a high revving bike, the fact is that I am used to a pulsar that I shift at around 5k RPM, and rev it all the way to 8k - 9k in top gear (high revs only in top gear). That technique clearly didn't work here, and hence I had to force myself to push the revs up (I basically went up to 9k only in 5th, and then shifted to 6th. The lower gears were crossed at 4k as usual).

The point is, I might have not yet fully understood the bike's plus and pain points, which is the purpose of this thread. To get the insight from veterans, and previous R15 owners, so that I have an enjoyable experience with the vehicle on the highways once it's completely run in!

PS : Every machine (being an electrical engineer, at least electrical machines), are designed to take shock/surges several times their normal rating for a few minutes. I assume the same would apply for motor engines as well, whence you open the throttle on a new engine (for a small period, that is)? I agree that if this is done for a continuous period of time, it might be dangerous, but for short spans, is it an issue? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 11th December 2011, 22:55   #7
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Default Re: The R15 - A query

Don't red-line it or keep it at 7,000+ revs for extended periods while running-in.

To attain a good top-end, don't shift till the limiter kicks in. You will do good. I have attained 129kmph @5th gear when the limiter kicked on March '09 R15, now sold :(

EDIT: R15 is quite unhappy with a pillion on board, avoid if you can.

Last edited by Sheel : 11th December 2011 at 23:22.
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Old 11th December 2011, 23:16   #8
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Default Re: The R15 - A query

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Originally Posted by FanaticOnWheels View Post

Though I have done research on the bike, and I realize that this is a high revving bike, the fact is that I am used to a pulsar that I shift at around 5k RPM, and rev it all the way to 8k - 9k in top gear (high revs only in top gear). That technique clearly didn't work here, and hence I had to force myself to push the revs up (I basically went up to 9k only in 5th, and then shifted to 6th. The lower gears were crossed at 4k as usual).

The point is, I might have not yet fully understood the bike's plus and pain points, which is the purpose of this thread. To get the insight from veterans, and previous R15 owners, so that I have an enjoyable experience with the vehicle on the highways once it's completely run in!

...

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, what you are saying is absolutely correct. There is no harm done to an engine, if it is taken to its maximum limits for short periods of time, now and then. You would be doing injustice to yourself and a machine like R15, if you choose not to do it.

But, breaking in a new engine brings a entirely new and external parameter to the equation - imperfections of machining/fabricating the engine. Now, with the latest manufacturing techniques, it becomes fairly reduced but is still not omitted altogether. Proof of this will be the shiny metal particulates visible in your engine oil, under the sun, during the first change. The internal surfaces of the engine are prone to scratches/imperfections from these particulates. Normally, this results in roughness at a particular set of RPMs later on.

Thus to sum up, even if your engine is a free revving one and can do gazillions of RPMs, or if it has enough torque to pull a house, you should refrain from doing any thing that makes the engine operate at a higher strain than normal during break in. Even for short bursts.

This is from a longevity perspective. Race cars and bikes are broken in a completely different approach, from performance perspective, since longevity and NVH are not parameters considered there.



Now, coming to your second question, i.e. the behavior of the R15 under acceleration with a pillion and a comparative study with the pulsar that you are used to:



(Please see the attached video before reading further, since it is related.)

1. You must have already noticed that the torque of the R15 is fairly low at lower RPMs and builds up as you rev it. That says that the R15 has a steep torque curve. So below 5252 RPMs, which is always the crossover point for torque and power, you will have a fairly low power.

2. Both the pulsar and the R15 make their max bhp at 8.5 K revs but the difference in the shape of the torque curve (and the bhp curve which is a function of torque curve) makes the pulsar quite close to its maximum power from much lower RPMs

3. The pulsar delivers its max torque at a full 1000 revs lower than the R15. See in the video, the effect of additional weight on engines that deliver torque at higher revs.

I could guarantee you that you will be more than surprised if you loose the pillion on your next attempt, and from 3rd gear onward, if you constantly accelerate to 7.5k revs before each up-shift.

But then again, please do not try it till you cross 1000 Kms. And please change the engine oil and filter ASAP.

Last edited by SilkDrive : 11th December 2011 at 23:31.
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Old 12th December 2011, 00:25   #9
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Default Re: The R15 - A query

Point well taken. I'll be changing the engine oil pretty soon. Thanks for the tip!
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Old 12th December 2011, 09:18   #10
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Default Re: The R15 - A query

Don't worry - R15 can hit 130+ with ease (without a pillion) - With Pillion (and me being quite heavy, and even bending the space-time fabric) the max I could touch was 110+

You haven't done the first service yet. Run-in with care. Do not stretch your engine for long time (quick bursts are ok) - Change engine oil.

Now, Get your first service done. Drop the pillion - Take the bike for a ride - I am sure you'll have a big smile in your face
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Old 12th December 2011, 10:48   #11
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Default Re: The R15 - A query

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Originally Posted by FanaticOnWheels View Post
Point well taken. I'll be changing the engine oil pretty soon. Thanks for the tip!
and drifting back to your query, did you try a GPS speedo?
your bike's might off by some.
Just saying.
I hit an indicated 128 on my bike once, when i checked on my phone, it was closer to 115.
Mine was optimistic, yours may be pessimistic.
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Old 12th December 2011, 11:01   #12
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Default Re: The R15 - A query

With pillion I have touched 126 twice and they were moderately heavy guys as pillion on both occassions. Beyond 126 is quite difficult with pillion. Also managed 124 with my girlfriend who is really thin and I stopped just because I didnt want her to fly off. .

Without pillion my top speed is 137. You have to understand that this bike is a rev-friendly bike. You have to rev it past 7k and 8k rpm. It is beyond 7K the R15 becomes a monster. Also depends on your riding position. If you are sitting upright and if it is windy day attaining top speed is very diificult. You have to crouch over. I have noticed that my bike will be at 125kmph steady and as soon as I lean forward it starts rising again upto 130+ easily. The going is really tough after 135+. Also leaning forward is quite an experience. If you are doing it for the first time please do it on a traffic free road. It is really amazing. It is like playing a video game.

My advice is rev it beyond 8k. Also I sympathize why you were not able to keep to the running in restrictions. But rev-hard technique should wait till the first service. Bike would feel much better after the first service.

P.S:- All my advice is based on my experience in my stock 2008 model R15 and my assumption that since both bikes should behave similarly in a top speed run.
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Old 12th December 2011, 12:23   #13
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Default Re: The R15 - A query

Yes, i agree with most comments here. 600kms is not enough. Follow company instructions and do the running in period accordingly. Then after 1200-1500kms you will get to experience the engine at its peak.

This run in period is a very deceptive thing. Some say you dont really need it, and some swear by it. i am a firm believer in it. From my experience with my P220Fi, i can firmly say that the fruits of running in an engine as advised by the company will be seen after 3-4 yrs of ownership(once the bike gets a little old). Bikes that had a good running in period along with up-to-date service record will still be in good condition with pickup not compromised at all even after 20,000 kms as in my case.

My younger cousin who bought his 220Si 1 year after me did not follow the run in period properly. His idea of warming up the engine in the morning was to rev the engine hard for a minute. Now, his engine has become very harsh when riding above 80kmph. His pickup has gone down a bit.

The best advice i was given was, to ride smoothly when commuting. Not to rev the engine too much, not to apply extreme breaking. By doing so your bike remains in top condition. Then on weekends or when you and your buddies are going for joy rides, you can enjoy your bike at its peak. Thats the time to rev hard, brake hard and enjoy your bike fully.

happy biking
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Old 12th December 2011, 12:39   #14
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Default Re: The R15 - A query

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Originally Posted by FanaticOnWheels View Post
Yes, the bike is relatively new (has done 640 Kms till date, and first service is still pending, and I don't think a short top speed burst would do it much harm, would it?), but this incident has now left me tad disappointed. Is there anything wrong in my method of riding? Can other R15 owners throw some light as to how they achieve higher speeds, or does the pillion here make so much of a difference?
Hello FanaticOnWheels,

I also own a Yamaha R15 2.0.
Most Important i would suggest that you get your first service done before trying any other antics on the bike.

For what you claim that your bike couldnt cross the 114 kmph mark, I personally have crossed 120 kmph with a pillion. (Me- 72kg & Pillion-60KG)

What you need to do to get to a decent top speed is not just have a long stretch but also get the bike to a perfect shift point wherein when you shift up - the bike pulls relentlessly. You need to shift beyond 10,000 rpm (beyond 10,000 rpm and between the red line), this is what i prefer personally when i think of going a little quicker on the highway rides.

However, i suggest you must wear a proper riding gear while doing this.

When riding solo, the new Yamaha R15 2.0 easily clocks 135 kmph and can do more.

Last edited by parrys : 12th December 2011 at 12:41.
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Old 12th December 2011, 19:49   #15
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Default Re: The R15 - A query

Those were some valuable inputs. This is the first time I'm owning and riding a high revving bike (was used to pulsars that can be given the beans in top gear, and they still accelerate reasonably well). This bike sure is different. I did try going over 7k for a couple of seconds in 3rd gear a week ago, and it was amazing! Cant wait to try it out once the first service is done. So the fact is, if I shift 1-5 at say 5k like I do in other bikes, and open full throttle in 6th gear, I am going to get nowhere near even say 110 km/hr, right?
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