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Old 31st January 2014, 14:41   #151
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Default re: Suzuki Inazuma 250cc launched. *UPDATE* Price slashed by 1 lakh!

Woah! 3.2 lacs ex showroom for this? What is Suzuki up to man. Suddenly its made the Ninja 300 look value for money. No mean feat that!

The headlight and that super ugly crow beak resembling front mudguard are just the icing on the cake to bury this bike before its born.

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Old 2nd February 2014, 12:50   #152
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Default re: Suzuki Inazuma 250cc launched. *UPDATE* Price slashed by 1 lakh!

I will wade into this discussion. Let us start with the right to express our views. I take that as a given. But with the right comes some degree of responsibility and I find that on most automobile forums people fully utilise the right and totally ignore the responsibility. What is wrong with the price of the Inazuma? It is comparable to motorcycles in that category. It is very much in the territory of the Ninja. The Ninja 300 is a bit more pricey when compared to the Inazuma. This despite the fact that it is being assembled in India from CKD kits. I own a Ninja 250 R. I bought it in 2010 for an on road price of Rs. 3, 06,000 price. When I was buying it I knew that I was paying far more than what the CBR 250 R would cost later on. Price was not the factor that was influencing my decision to buy. I wanted the Ninja period. Even today I would by the Ninja 300 with its Rs. 4 lakh on road price then buy a KTM D 390 despite the price difference. I will never ever buy a KTM. Why? Seriously I do not know. I will never buy a Honda. Why? I do not know. Price is just one small component in the whole purchase decision. Don't make it the central point please.

Aesthetics. I liked the original Libero and the 125cc Fazer with their headlamp treatment. I think the changed face of the Libero deprived the motorcycle of any identity. It simply became anonymous. If the failure of the Libero was due to the face, the change should have made it a better seller. It did not. So there is no way anyone can sit in judgement over the aesthetics of a motorcycle or a car for that matter. These are matters which are very personal. I like the Inazuma's looks. Nobody can tell me that it looks like rubbish. I also realize that I cannot tell people who do not like its looks that it is a good looking motorcycle. I therefore think that we should not be basing our "analyses" of how well a product will do in the market place on the basis of the looks that it has. You can say I don't like its looks or I like its looks. But it cannot be I think it looks terrible so it will not sell or I like its looks and therefore it will sell.

As was appropriately pointed out by a couple of posts most of the people saying things about products are not even in a position to buy them. So to say that these opinions should be taken seriously is complete nonsense. Ultimately, none of us know why certain products sell and others don't. I think even the manufacturers do not know what formula guarantees sales. If they did and still created products that don't sell, then I think they have no business selling motorcycles.

I think we shouldn't take ourselves too seriously beyond a point and believe that we have fixes for problems that the manufacturers do not have. If we did, I am sure we would be CEOs of the companies that are doing business in India. I conclude by saying that while we can exercise our right to our opinion and the expression of it, but that right should be tempered with responsibility. Otherwise we are doing things that angels wouldn't be rushing to do.

Last edited by sadsack : 2nd February 2014 at 12:54. Reason: Bad grammar.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 20:04   #153
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Default re: Suzuki Inazuma 250cc launched. *UPDATE* Price slashed by 1 lakh!

Well said Sadsack, the bike is a tad overpriced but the problem is that everyone is comparing it the the high VFM bar that has been set by Bajaj/KTM products. There are several products that came in overpriced but have survived. The second problem is that customers look at Rs/cc without realizing that there is more to a bike than cc

The CBR 250 was not that much faster than a KTM200 but still more expensive. The Duke200 has an expensive upside down front fork and costs less.....which means the CBR250 is overpriced?

Vespa scooter is most expensive in the market but still sold. I realize there was a 10K price revision since

Ninja 250 was perceived as overpriced compared to CBR250. Same cc!

Ninja 300 is perceived as overpriced compared to outgoing Ninja 300. For bigger pistons?

The USP of the Inazuma is that its got bad ass naked bike styling that nobody else has. People have money to throw these days. At this price it will still sell but wont be a sellout. Tiny cars like Mini Cooper and A class are selling for 20+ lakhs
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Old 2nd February 2014, 21:21   #154
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Default re: Suzuki Inazuma 250cc launched. *UPDATE* Price slashed by 1 lakh!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
. The second problem is that customers look at Rs/cc without realizing that there is more to a bike than cc

The CBR 250 was not that much faster than a KTM200 but still more expensive. The Duke200 has an expensive upside down front fork and costs less.....which means the CBR250 is overpriced?

Vespa scooter is most expensive in the market but still sold. I realize there was a 10K price revision since

Ninja 250 was perceived as overpriced compared to CBR250. Same cc!

Ninja 300 is perceived as overpriced compared to outgoing Ninja . For bigger pistons?

The USP of the Inazuma is that its got bad ass naked bike styling that nobody else has. People have money to throw these days. At this price it will still sell but wont be a sellout. Tiny cars like Mini Cooper and A class are selling for 20+ lakhs
Lol, no one would want to splurge that kind of money for a bike that looks like just another daily commuter. In India, it's all about the looks. Plonk the exhausts under the seat, widen the rear tyre a little bit, beef up the tank and boy! , you've got yourself a bike that justifies its 3.2 lakh price tag. People have seen the same old styled bikes from Suzuki and other manufactures since years and obviously heart attacks had to be in order when the Inazuma's price was announced. Sure, it may have some characteristics of the B-King but look at the r15 for that matter, one can really appreciate the fact that it looks like its inline-4 counterparts, that's why it still sells even though it's expensive.

Only die hard Suzuki fan-boys and potential highway hitters would buy it. The average sensible Indian wouldn't even consider it. I'm not sure what Suzuki's intended target audience was/is.

The Vespa, 250R, ninja, duke all have this thing about them that strikes a chord with the mass market. The Vespa is an iconic scooter and is styled way more differently from other scooters and it still turns my head. The ninja and 250r are suddenly value for money in front of the Inazuma and are not naked!
and the duke, well , it screams "hooligan" at you with its curves. The Inazuma just doesn't cut it.

I honestly don't see the bad ass naked bike styling in it. But then again, that's just my opinion.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 21:40   #155
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Default re: Suzuki Inazuma 250cc launched. *UPDATE* Price slashed by 1 lakh!

^^
Well I agree to disagree with those guys who are supporting Inazuma's price. Pricing is again a heart issue for some and also depends on financial status of an individual and ability of Individual to stretch.

For eg. If someone wanted to go for Ninja as compared to CBR250, he/she would be ready to pay that price because his/hers heart is set on for that bike.
This is a heart decision indeed. The person might not like KTM or any other bike.

But not all guys can not afford the high prices that come associated with these bikes. For such guys financial factor plays an important role. Unfortunately I fall in this category. When I am investing my hard earned money I am going to demand an equal compensation for that in terms of something - either power, feel, quality,features or aesthetics.

I would personally go for a Duke 390 not because I like it the most I am going to see the affordability factor in purchasing and latter owning the bike and not to mention the power I get in return for my money.

And to many it would sound absurd but just compare Tata is able to sell a two cylinder,fuel injected, 663 cc engine with a complete car package at a price less then many of the bikes. Just Imagine in a Nano the complete chassis, seats dashboard, steering blah blah with the two cylinder engine comes at a price of 2.5 on-road. And I feel Tata is not doing charity by selling at subsidized rates.

So what makes the cost of these bikes go so high. Some say engineering involved, hmm do we want to say there was no engineering involved in Nano? If so how were they able to generate patents.

Even if I do agree that the engineering involved in these bikes might be a tad higher in terms of cost, what about manufacturing costs? Offcourse Nano has more costs involved in manufacturing.

What I feel is that the so called bikes are probably costly because:
1) They do not sell in mass numbers.
2) Their engineering is done outside India which is a costly affair, considering the currency conversion rates.
3) Better engineering or one can say higher investment in more tests and R&D.I would say more time.
4) CKD route or due to Import Duty.
5) Profit what the Motorcycle company wants to earn on it.
6) High manufacturing, labour and transportation cost outside India.

Leaving aside other important factors, Point No. 5 is one major factor in deciding prices for India. Offtopic but we have seen what happened with the Jazz and New Fiesta when their parent companies launched them with exhorbitant prices.

The day Indian companies are able to engineer the sportsbike category bikes completely inhouse the bikes cost is no more going to be so high. But the problem here with the companies is the will and the financial business case (read number of bikes sold).

Inazuma- What people get more when they pay 3 plus lakh INR?

1) A two cylinder engine- I really would want to know from experienced riders how much is the difference between a single and double cylinder engine in terms of feel and performance.

What Inazuma is not giving back for the 3 lakh price-
1) Power / Torque.
2) Styling (For the Indian masses it starts with a full fairing. Personally I am not a fan of full faired bikes.)
3) Road presence.
4) Feel ??? (Remains to be answered).
5) Quality- (Is it superior in the category of other sports bikes?)
6) Lack of features which could stand out.

If Inazuma would have come with standard features like -
1) Detachable Panniers.
2) Sump guard.
3) Provision for Carrying - A steel carrier plate behind the seat.
4) Extremely comfortable pillion seat (Special seats for pillion)
5) ABS???

Then the story would have been different. I have considered the above because I see it as a comfortable tourer bike (Considering the Indian scenario).
Personally I would have really thought of buying this bike if it came with above things and with please a little bit more power and torque.

PS: No offence meant to any other persons opinion.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 23:51   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Well said Sadsack, the bike is a tad overpriced but the problem is that everyone is comparing it the the high VFM bar that has been set by Bajaj/KTM products. There are several products that came in overpriced but have survived. The second problem is that customers look at Rs/cc without realizing that there is more to a bike than cc The CBR 250 was not that much faster than a KTM200 but still more expensive. The Duke200 has an expensive upside down front fork and costs less.....which means the CBR250 is overpriced? Vespa scooter is most expensive in the market but still sold. I realize there was a 10K price revision since Ninja 250 was perceived as overpriced compared to CBR250. Same cc! Ninja 300 is perceived as overpriced compared to outgoing Ninja 300. For bigger pistons? The USP of the Inazuma is that its got bad ass naked bike styling that nobody else has. People have money to throw these days. At this price it will still sell but wont be a sellout. Tiny cars like Mini Cooper and A class are selling for 20+ lakhs
Badass naked bike styling? I find the styling to be the most boring among premium bikes. All black Duke 200 looks badass to my eyes- but the Inazuma just looks plain commuter bike.

I'm quite sure this bike will be a sales disaster. Let's see. Only time can prove this right or wrong.
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Old 3rd February 2014, 09:01   #157
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Default re: Suzuki Inazuma 250cc launched. *UPDATE* Price slashed by 1 lakh!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Badass naked bike styling? I find the styling to be the most boring among premium bikes. All black Duke 200 looks badass to my eyes- but the Inazuma just looks plain commuter bike.

I'm quite sure this bike will be a sales disaster. Let's see. Only time can prove this right or wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by createrkid View Post
Lol, no one would want to splurge that kind of money for a bike that looks like just another daily commuter. In India, it's all about the looks. Plonk the exhausts under the seat, widen the rear tyre a little bit, beef up the tank and boy! , you've got yourself a bike that justifies its 3.2 lakh price tag. People have seen the same old styled bikes from Suzuki and other manufactures since years and obviously heart attacks had to be in order when the Inazuma's price was announced. Sure, it may have some characteristics of the B-King but look at the r15 for that matter, one can really appreciate the fact that it looks like its inline-4 counterparts, that's why it still sells even though it's expensive.

Only die hard Suzuki fan-boys and potential highway hitters would buy it. The average sensible Indian wouldn't even consider it. I'm not sure what Suzuki's intended target audience was/is.

The Vespa, 250R, ninja, duke all have this thing about them that strikes a chord with the mass market. The Vespa is an iconic scooter and is styled way more differently from other scooters and it still turns my head. The ninja and 250r are suddenly value for money in front of the Inazuma and are not naked!
and the duke, well , it screams "hooligan" at you with its curves. The Inazuma just doesn't cut it.

I honestly don't see the bad ass naked bike styling in it. But then again, that's just my opinion.
See this is what I said Crazy Driver. It jolly well may bomb, the Inazuma, but it may not be for reasons cited by you. Just because you do not see bad ass naked style in the Inazuma, it does not mean such a styling does not exist in it. MPower does see it. What was that thing about beauty (in this case bad ass styling) being in the eyes of the beholder?

Creatorkid is so taken in with the auto journalist's vocabulary that he calls the KTM Duke a bad ass bike that screams hooligan. I see it as a a bike that just forgot to wear clothes. I am not a fan of Kiska design. But does that mean that the people who are buying the KTM Dukes are crazy? Not by a mile. You have a problem with Suzuki Fanboys? But you seem like a KTM fanboy to me. So lets us all have a live and let live attitude. The Vespa thing; I own a Vespa and I bought it for reasons that have nothing to do with price, looks or its iconic status. My reasons were purely emotional. I learnt how to ride a scooter (all by myself) on a 1970 Vespa 150 (though his was in the year 1979, when I was still under aged for a license and my dad would not let me learn how to ride a scooter till I was of appropriate age. So I did it sneakily without his knowledge). My dad (who is my hero) loves the Vespa. So when the bike was launched and I had some spare money I bought it at the original high price. I was not even in the scooter market. Just that the Vespa happened and I decided to buy it for my dad and for my own memories. So again a decision that was made not out of any kind of rationality.

Please stop being pundits. None of us are. And remember we have not even seen the Inazuma in metal and none of us have ridden it. Maybe in metal and when actually ridden the Inazuma just might create an impression which is indelible. Maybe it won't. But then let us do that (the riding that is) and then get all judgmental about it.

PS: I am not a Suzuki fanboi though the first ever Japanese motorcycle that I sat on and rode pillion was a Suzuki that came as a part of the UNICEF deal for BDO's and Extension Officers to work with village communities. This was in 1971. So now you know I am a fanoldman. Not of Suzuki but of Kawasaki. Why? I honestly don't know.

Last edited by sadsack : 3rd February 2014 at 09:05. Reason: Badly constructed sentences
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Old 3rd February 2014, 09:40   #158
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Default re: Suzuki Inazuma 250cc launched. *UPDATE* Price slashed by 1 lakh!

@sadsack: Personally, I find this reply very offensive. But - I am just going to ignore the arrogance and sarcasm and just clarify the assumptions you have made. Not interested in dragging this further hence I am not adding any extra points other than what I have mentioned in the previous post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sadsack View Post
You have a problem with Suzuki Fanboys? But you seem like a KTM fanboy to me.
I have never driven a KTM, nor sat pillion on it, nor started it, not even sat on it once. My dream bike has always been the GSX-R with the blue and white livery. But I am nowhere close to buying any of these bikes now - be it the Duke 390 or the Inazuma.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sadsack View Post
What was that thing about beauty (in this case bad ass styling) being in the eyes of the beholder?
Qoute from my above post -
I find the styling to be the most boring among premium bikes. All black Duke 200 looks badass to my eyes - but the Inazuma just looks plain commuter bike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sadsack View Post
So lets us all have a live and let live attitude.
Qoute from my above post -
I'm quite sure this bike will be a sales disaster. Let's see. Only time can prove this right or wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sadsack View Post
Please stop being pundits. None of us are.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 3rd February 2014 at 09:54.
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Old 3rd February 2014, 09:59   #159
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I fully agree with Crazy Driver, your post to me looks like a personal attack rather than a conversation. So please let us not indulge and stick to the topic.

Coming to the bike, I just find no reason for going ballistic on here about that as it if personal opinion which is not directed to any one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sadsack View Post
What was that thing about beauty (in this case bad ass styling) being in the eyes of the beholder?

Please stop being pundits. None of us are.
None of us here are Pundits or any but plain customers who have given an opinion on a bike that is going to be launched in our market.

Honestly speaking, looking at the bike, I don't find ANYTHING that is worth 3L to pay, may be a performer but it must please the human eye for someone to enter that showroom and sign the dotted line.

PS: Let's get back to the Suzuki on the technical way rather than personal way.

Anurag.
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Old 3rd February 2014, 16:12   #160
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Did anyone else notice? Salman Khan drove around in this bike in that 'tragic" movie 'Jai Ho'
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Old 3rd February 2014, 18:58   #161
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Default re: Suzuki Inazuma 250cc launched. *UPDATE* Price slashed by 1 lakh!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Badass naked bike styling? I find the styling to be the most boring among premium bikes. All black Duke 200 looks badass to my eyes- but the Inazuma just looks plain commuter bike.

I'm quite sure this bike will be a sales disaster. Let's see. Only time can prove this right or wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by createrkid View Post
Lol, no one would want to splurge that kind of money for a bike that looks like just another daily commuter. In India, it's all about the looks. Plonk the exhausts under the seat, widen the rear tyre a little bit, beef up the tank and boy! , you've got yourself a bike that justifies its 3.2 lakh price tag.

I honestly don't see the bad ass naked bike styling in it. But then again, that's just my opinion.

Well, to your point, I find the styling lot more exciting than CBR250 and Ninja250 which are both wrapped in boring & generic plastic body

Its inspired by the B-king and also the same genre as the FZ16 which has been selling well in India.

I am judging the bike without taking price into consideration. If Suzuki drops the price to 1.99 lakh, all the people who say the styling sucks will run to dealer and buy one

I have already mentioned that Bajaj/KTM offer the best value on performance bike out there so no need to retweet

Last edited by Mpower : 3rd February 2014 at 21:50.
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Old 3rd February 2014, 19:01   #162
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Default re: Suzuki Inazuma 250cc launched. *UPDATE* Price slashed by 1 lakh!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sadsack View Post

Creatorkid is so taken in with the auto journalist's vocabulary that he calls the KTM Duke a bad ass bike that screams hooligan. I see it as a a bike that just forgot to wear clothes. I am not a fan of Kiska design. But does that mean that the people who are buying the KTM Dukes are crazy? Not by a mile. You have a problem with Suzuki Fanboys? But you seem like a KTM fanboy to me. So lets us all have a live and let live attitude. The Vespa thing; I own a Vespa and I bought it for reasons that have nothing to do with price, looks or its iconic status. My reasons were purely emotional. I learnt how to ride a scooter (all by myself) on a 1970 Vespa 150 (though his was in the year 1979, when I was still under aged for a license and my dad would not let me learn how to ride a scooter till I was of appropriate age. So I did it sneakily without his knowledge). My dad (who is my hero) loves the Vespa. So when the bike was launched and I had some spare money I bought it at the original high price. I was not even in the scooter market. Just that the Vespa happened and I decided to buy it for my dad and for my own memories. So again a decision that was made not out of any kind of rationality.

Please stop being pundits.
Let me rephrase two things in very simple and comprehensible English, I'll try my best not to sway towards my "auto journalist's vocabulary". Lol

1)Team-Bhp is an open discussion board for people like me to express their views. I am not a critic. I am not an expert. I'm just a fragment of this eternal fraternity and I am entitled to say the things that I want.
2)Read the title of this thread, it says "Inazuma! Suzuki's 250cc for India?" , that means that people can engage in a healthy debate highlighting the pros and cons of the Inazuma. Maybe we should have a banner stating "Attention all potential Inazuma buyers! view this thread at your own risk".

Am I a KTM fanboy? Did I associate the word "badass" with KTM? just because I said that it screams "hooligan"? Would you have giggled if I would have said that the Inazuma screams hooligan?

Let me quote some lines from my previous post.

Quote:
But then again, that's just my opinion.
This is your ticket to not personally attack me in such a hapless and pitiful manner.

I'm just helping people save some bucks and make them realize that the market is open for other(and much much better) options as well. People who want to buy the Inazuma would buy it eventually regardless of what I have to say.

I think the word "Fanboy" managed to keep you at the edge of your chair and it definitely ticked you off. It's just a phrase, get over it.

Do I have anything against Suzuki? No ways! I adore and worship the GSXR1000 and the Intruder but the Inazuma just slaps you right across the face with its hideous price tag.

Please excuse me for expressing my thoughts in a forum meant for expressing thoughts. My sincere apologies.


Bottom line is, I will still stand by what I said.

The Inazuma is inevitably and unquestionably not worth buying.

This pointless conversation is going to go in circles so I am going to rest my case. Good day to you Sir!

Oh and congratulations for the Vespa.
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Old 3rd February 2014, 21:09   #163
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Quote:
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Its inspired by the B-king and also the same genre as the FZ16 which has been selling well in India.
Mpower: Yes, understood your personal preference and good to know people do like the styling.

However-

1. BKing production bike was not a sales success, and not even a styling success for that matter. International reviews held high hopes for that BKing concept but the subtle changes made to the production version was not appreciated.

2. It is not the same styling as FZ series. Come on, the new Gixxer launched by Suzuki is of that design language and I very much appreciate it. Post side by side pics of FZ16, Gixxer and Inazuma and compare please.

3. I hope you have gone back and referred initial comments on this thread as well as other popular biking forums where this this bike was discussed. Popular opinion always was that this bike looks commuterish. Xbhp preview opened with this comments if I remember correctly, 6 months back when people had hopes of good pricing from Suzuki.

So let's not generalize that price is the only deciding factor here.
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Old 21st February 2014, 12:28   #164
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Default re: Suzuki Inazuma 250cc launched. *UPDATE* Price slashed by 1 lakh!

Any ownership reports on this bike ? If any team bhp member has bought please do share your ownership experience
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Old 24th February 2014, 20:07   #165
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