Honda CBR250R ABS vs KTM Duke 200. EDIT : The CBR it is!

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by Tommie

First ask him to drive both the bikes. He needs to feel her before making the decision.

Indeed. He needs to feel them

I have ridden CBR and it has to be revved up for torque and good fun. Sitting posture is racing style and not good for a fat-tall person.
If he is a racer category person who like high revs, I would recommend to go for Honda. CBR can give long engine life as I felt the engine is not under pressure.

I am sorry, but your impressions are a bit off.

• The seating position is commuterish or tourer friendly. R15's seating is radical in comparison.

• The CBR has a killer mid-range. In comparison, the R15 & N-250R have their power stacked up high in their rev-range.

• Engine does feel a bit stressed over 100kmph. Its other thing that it can sustain 120kmph throughout, but doesn't feel as relaxed as at ~100kmph

My doubts are there on the engine life, as Bajaj has created this engine and trying to extract maximum power from it.

And your source of info? I never knew BAL created KTM's engine.

[Tommie]

Originally Posted by Sheel

And your source of info? I never knew BAL created KTM's engine.

The 200 CC engine is created by Bajaj from the KTM 125 cc frame. You could refer to various articles online that the 200cc bike is launched first in India

KTM 200 Duke, Review, Price, KTM Bikes India, Comparison, Images, Variants

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by Tommie

The 200 CC engine is created by Bajaj from the KTM 125 cc frame. You could refer to various articles online that the 200cc bike is launched first in India

KTM 200 Duke, Review, Price, KTM Bikes India, Comparison, Images, Variants

The link which you provided nowhere mentions that BAL created KTM-200's engine. If any web-site does, can you post a link please?

And how much credible is the web-site link you have posted? It even goes as far as posting an impression about KTM-125 which I believe they haven't even ridden. Is there a KTM-250 as well? There is an off-roader in 250 guise. They posted a likely launch date for it as well

[Tommie]

Originally Posted by Sheel

The link which you provided nowhere mentions that BAL created KTM-200's engine. If any web-site does, can you post a link please?

And how much credible is the web-site link you have posted? It even goes as far as posting an impression about KTM-125 which I believe they haven't even ridden. Is there a KTM-250 as well? There is an off-roader in 250 guise. They posted a likely launch date for it as well

Here you go. The KTM-200 was made from highly stressed KTM-125. "the Bajaj/KTM R&D team bored and stroked the 125cc version’s 58 x 47.2 mm dimensions to 72 x 49 mm, for a capacity of 199.5cc."
“From the beginning it was clear that the 200 Duke would be made for the Indian and other developing markets, where the 125 is not so interesting, because there isn’t the low-power legislation that we have in Europe,”
"this bigger-engined variant was primarily developed in India on the basis of an Austrian design, with input from KTM engineers in Mattighofen. This took place in Bajaj Auto’s own magnificent standalone 165-acre Akurdi R&D setup 20km north of its Pune HQ – a facility fully on a par in terms of size, facilities and technology with"
"The 200 Duke’s potential customers in India, Brazil, and Southeast Asia who’ll be receiving deliveries first"

[Furebo]

Update: Guys, My friend had a test drive of both the Duke as well as the CBR!

In a way it was back to back and truly the KTM was impressive, But here are a few pointers. These are based on his views as well as my inputs.

KTM DUKE 200

Likes (+)

Pocket Rocket for sure!
Fresh on the streets
Looks amazing!
Power to weight ratio
Light for maneuvering
Good build quality
Good pricing
Slick gearshift
Some features are first for this segment Eg: WP forks.

Dislikes (-)

Rev limiter spoils fun, Gruff engine note
Insignificant 2 year warranty! (Doesn't KTM believe in their product?)
On paper figures don't translate into mind blowing acceleration (You can feel a push while riding the CBR)
Non-existent pillion seat (Very Uncomfortable)
KTM = New brand in India, Lack of recognition, No service record, Lesser service stations and reliability are a downer.
Costly spares and power parts
Performance in Indian market is yet to be seen
No ABS, Color option.
Dis-concerning brakes,Easily locks up.
Strictly for short distances.
Smallish Bike.

Honda CBR250R

Likes (+)

Good acceleration (23nm of torque)
Amazing power delivery, Smooth and linear
Established/Proven: Brand + Product
Pillion seat is comfortable
2012 facelift
ABS/Color options
5 year warranty
Proper 250cc
Amazing tourer

Dislikes (-)
Service center not up-to expectation, but improving (As per existing owners)
Price
Poor quality in some areas
Lesser features
Not as maneuverable

Verdict:

Despite all votes being showered on the KTM it was clear that majority of us had not ridden it, After riding the bike in person many shifted their views. Same case with my friend; He could easily imagine himself with the Duke for say 1-2 years down the line. But he could find the CBR as a better package in the long run or say to retain it. He was immediately comfortable with the seating of the CBR and did not prefer the KTM's upright seating for longer durations,it completely wears you down in a while! ABS however undervalued is definitely a life saver. Lets look at it as an investment for years. The KTM is an amazing package But the CBR remains in a league of its own. Sure it is expensive, but at the end of the day it has proven its worth. Agreed that he will lose 3k in cancelling the Duke.

With the new CBR 2012 facelift being launched, I rest his case.

The Honda CBR250R ABS it is!

[lionell]

Those are some very valid pointers to the choice and the CBR does make a great all rounder.

But... I mean just look at the hooligan street-fighter styling. Putting those two pictures side by side... makes the CBR look just plain boring. No offense to any of the CBR owners on the forum :-)

[Furebo]

Originally Posted by lionell

Those are some very valid pointers to the choice and the CBR does make a great all rounder.

I'm glad you thought so...

Originally Posted by lionell

But... I mean just look at the hooligan street-fighter styling. Putting those two pictures side by side... makes the CBR look just plain boring.

Read my post all over again! There was a lot lot more that went into this decision apart from the the temptation of the DUKE'S looks!

[lionell]

Originally Posted by Furebo

Read my post all over again! There was a lot lot more that went into this decision apart from the the temptation of the DUKE'S looks!

And a wise choice it is

[needmorebhp]

Originally Posted by Furebo

With the new CBR 2012 facelift being launched, I rest his case.

The Honda CBR250R ABS it is!

Good choice, I would say.

FACELIFT??!! Where did that come from. Isn't that just extra color option? Correct me if I am wrong..did I buy my bike too early?

[Furebo]

Originally Posted by needmorebhp

FACELIFT??!! Where did that come from. Isn't that just extra color option? Correct me if I am wrong..did I buy my bike too early?

Here is the link to the thread: CBR 2012

Originally Posted by ku69rd

CBR is indeed a good choise, did ride the KTM the other day and it quickly reminded me of good Ol Shogun. KTM is indeed a fantastic bike for the urban & short off road trips. Found the flickability in a KTM very much better compared to CBR because of the seating position and geometry. Rev Limiter did kick in at 7500RPM but was told that was due to bike being still run in. However CBR does make a better appeal as a jack of all trades. Post the Team BHP Meet, did see it doing well on patchy/poor roads if not exceedingly good as you can expect from KTM. CBR will be a better bet if you/your friend are going to keep it for quite some time.

Very well said buddy; Your post echoed our thoughts!

Originally Posted by ku69rd

2012 facelift is just a farce, only noticeable change is the color. Some say engine mods but would not like to believe till somebody buys it and puts out some credible information.

Again, Very true!

[ku69rd]

Originally Posted by Furebo

[b]With the new CBR 2012 facelift being launched, I rest his case.

The Honda CBR250R ABS it is!

Mate,
CBR is indeed a good choise, did ride the KTM the other day and it quickly reminded me of good Ol Shogun. KTM is indeed a fantastic bike for the urban & short off road trips. Found the flickability in a KTM very much better compared to CBR because of the seating position and geometry. Rev Limiter did kick in at 7500RPM but was told that was due to bike being still run in.
However CBR does make a better appeal as a jack of all trades. Post the Team BHP Meet, did see it doing well on patchy/poor roads if not exceedingly good as you can expect from KTM. CBR will be a better bet if you/your friend are going to keep it for quite some time.
2012 facelift is just a farce, only noticeable change is the color. Some say engine mods but would not like to believe till somebody buys it and puts out some credible information.

[PatienceWins]

Good choice, your friend would love the bike. It is a very versatile bike, good for city and perfect for touring.

[degenr8]

Good Choice buddy :-)

Off Topic

Originally Posted by ku69rd

Mate,
CBR is indeed a good choise...., Rev Limiter did kick in at 7500RPM but was told that was due to bike being still run in.

KU69RD, I was informed by the staff at KTM Bangalore that the bike does not require a run in like the other ones and is Ready to Race ;-)

[rk_sans]

Originally Posted by Furebo

The Honda CBR250R ABS it is!

Very thoughtful choice. Congrats. The cost of the spares(CBR) would keep anybody happy.
Forgot to mention this. ABS version of CBR disk pads are almost the double the cost of the regular ones.

[BANDHAV]

Originally Posted by degenr8

KU69RD, I was informed by the staff at KTM Bangalore that the bike does not require a run in like the other ones and is Ready to Race ;-)

An extract from post of Moderator aditya.

programmed to bounce off/cut-off at 7.5k RPM for the first 1k kms. Post 1st service, you can revv the pants off this bike till 10.5k rpm.