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Old 31st August 2012, 10:43   #421
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

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Originally Posted by samschenker View Post
I will notice what they do & by any chance did you get the fuel filter changed from Autoservice?

Found the skid plate pics from your blog
More pics of the skid plate will be helpful was looking for something like that because the stock under belly pan just lets all the mud & dirt get accumulated.
Also observed both the bikes had different types of skid plate, any specific reason to go for two different designs?
Small virtiual world! Autoservice yes. Now how did you know that?
Both Skid plates are the same design Sam. Mine was powder coated silver whereas my brother's was powder coated black. Mine probably has a slight different profile on the left side of the bike. But only slightly. Will definitely post more pics when I find time Sam.

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Originally Posted by terryv View Post
- to my knowledge, currently no dealer has a workshop manual, or the X1 tester so cannot look at the ECU info to determine if there is a failing, or failed, component on the bike. Valve clearances also have not been done to my knowledge. If there is a hard failure for most of the injection components the MIL light will come on, and then the error can be read using a technique of turning on the ignition whilst holding the throttle wide open - it gets a little complicated but if there are DIYers out there that want the info then ask. But some components will not turn the MIL light on, and need the X! tester to look at it.

Safe riding .....
Terry,
What X1 tester? haha! Second service done and the third service coming up in 1000kms for me. So far, I haven't seen anyone hooking up any gadget to read anything from the ECU. So here I am, requesting for more info.
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Old 31st August 2012, 12:15   #422
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

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Its the fitment holes (dia, spacing, distance, etc.) where the issue lies.
Completely agree with you, still trying to find if the sprockets from any of the Pulsars will match my needs. I was going to go with a 15 teeth front similar to what is suggested in the visordown review.

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If there is a hard failure for most of the injection components the MIL light will come on, and then the error can be read using a technique of turning on the ignition whilst holding the throttle wide open
Is there a way to diagnose the problem without a diagnostic tool, like going into a mode where the MIL light switches on & off in some pattern to indicate the possible reason of problem? If yes would like to hear more about how it can be done.

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Small virtiual world! Autoservice yes. Now how did you know that?
Yes, Small virtual world. Also am a friend of DJ have been following the ORANGUTAN logs from the first Madikeri ride. You have the pic of the Bike clicked in Autoservice (Again from your blog).

About the skid plates probably the color made the silver one look like it has sharper edges than the other one. The holes in the front are just for aesthetic purpose or they really help with some cooling?
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Old 31st August 2012, 12:18   #423
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

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Terry,
What X1 tester? haha! Second service done and the third service coming up in 1000kms for me. So far, I haven't seen anyone hooking up any gadget to read anything from the ECU. So here I am, requesting for more info.
Small (Samsung Galaxy sized) gadget with orange screen with scrolling readings, connected with a cable with a laptop multipin type port to a connector on the left side of your under seat compartment (blanked off with a black rubber snap-on cap). They run it on the bike with whatever upgrades they have and it runs for 15-20 minutes with the ignition on (bike not running) and automatically cleans all your ECU sectors and stops if any error is located - so that the KTM guys then check and do what they have to do. None of the bikes that I saw this being done on showed any errors.
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Old 31st August 2012, 13:06   #424
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

Nope, Never heard of it nor seen it.Bangalore owners, is this done at Khivraj?
What updates? map?
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Old 31st August 2012, 14:07   #425
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

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Nope, Never heard of it nor seen it.Bangalore owners, is this done at Khivraj?
What updates? map?
AFIK Autoservice has a hand held device for diagnostics, its has a big bajaj logo on it & there was a menu from which the model of bike can be selected P220FI, Duke200 etc (observed it the last time when they had plugged in my bike to monitor battery voltage when the radiator fan kicks on). Not sure if Khivraj has one.

Most of the OE's provide such a tool when ECU are involved but the software(PC based) or h/w to convert CAN(or anything similar like KWP2000) lines to computer recognizable signals(USB/RS232) are expensive. Diagnostic tools(PC based) sold by tata motors costed ~20K INR five years back.

I have seen hand held diagnostic devices used by Yamaha A.S.S on R15.
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Old 31st August 2012, 16:18   #426
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

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Originally Posted by samschenker View Post
Yes, Small virtual world. Also am a friend of DJ have been following the ORANGUTAN logs from the first Madikeri ride. You have the pic of the Bike clicked in Autoservice (Again from your blog).

About the skid plates probably the color made the silver one look like it has sharper edges than the other one. The holes in the front are just for aesthetic purpose or they really help with some cooling?
Pleased to meet you Sam!
The holes in front were made for cooling. Similar to the louers in the O.E plastic skid plate if you may.
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Old 31st August 2012, 16:52   #427
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

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Originally Posted by samschenker View Post
AFIK Autoservice has a hand held device for diagnostics, its has a big bajaj logo on it & there was a menu from which the model of bike can be selected P220FI, Duke200 etc (observed it the last time when they had plugged in my bike to monitor battery voltage when the radiator fan kicks on). Not sure if Khivraj has one.
Something like this?

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attach...y-p1020383.jpg

If so, what I am referring to is different.
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Old 31st August 2012, 17:12   #428
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Something like this?
Think this is not the one, it had a bigger alpha numeric LCD display & was connected to the connector(with a black cap) you have mentioned in one of your previous posts.
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Old 31st August 2012, 19:01   #429
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Something like this?

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attach...y-p1020383.jpg

If so, what I am referring to is different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by samschenker View Post
Think this is not the one, it had a bigger alpha numeric LCD display & was connected to the connector(with a black cap) you have mentioned in one of your previous posts.
Along with the voltage readings ,that device also show past and current states of the sensors. For eg: if the bike has tipped over and its got a rollover sensor, the diagnostic tool would be able to show if a sensor got switched 'ON'. Additionally, the tool can also be used to tune the AFR.
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Old 31st August 2012, 19:02   #430
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

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Originally Posted by samschenker View Post
Think this is not the one, it had a bigger alpha numeric LCD display & was connected to the connector(with a black cap) you have mentioned in one of your previous posts.
Yup then that's the one. All this technology does scare me in a way too - in terms of taking this bike places where a mechanic just about has the right spanners.
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Old 31st August 2012, 19:35   #431
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

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Originally Posted by praful View Post
Along with the voltage readings ,that device also show past and current states of the sensors.
You mean the device in the pic also reads sensor info?

The one i saw was looking different, it was sort of grey in color & was 'T' shaped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
All this technology does scare me in a way too - in terms of taking this bike places where a mechanic just about has the right spanners.
Yes it does, may be one of the disadvantages of having so many sensors.
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Old 31st August 2012, 21:28   #432
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

Ok, I will try to answer the questions.

1. Search for Motronic on google - read - this will tell you all about the Electronic Fuel Injection (EFI) and Electronic Control Unit (ECU) - now you have a computer that is running the bike, and you need a computer to access its' memory to see what it has been experiencing, and to tell it to do things. There is no carburettor.

2. X1 is the Duke 200's specific test box that plugs into the bike, and into a computer that has the software (which has the workshop manual, parts manual, and fault finding). There are many other manufacturers that produce these devices, but only KTM's at the moment has all the tech detail, and anything KTM specific The interface is a regulated standard.

3. X1 will allow testing of various sensors, reading of stored errors, and "flashing" the ECU - which will upload different maps that the ECU uses to determine how much fuel to inject, and when. Also things like rev limit can be reset to different values.

4. You will see on website like Akropovic exhausts that when a different exhaust system is put on, frequently this will require a new map installed in the ECU to take advantage, and reduce problems, of the new exhaust.

5. The duke 200 ECU will store fault codes, that can be read with the X1, or can be read with the MIL (Malfunction indicator lamp). Many, not all, sensor failures will light the MIL. To find out if another sensor has failed you need the X1 or something similar. Things like sidestand sensor, reserve fuel sensor, intake air temperature failures will not activate the MIL.

6. If you have a lit MIL, then one of two things will happen - the bike will not work, or it will go into "limp home mode" where it will use whatever it can to keep going.

7. For a number of EFI faults a code is stored in the ECU. This code can be seen via a blink code of the MIL. I haven't seen any faults yet so have not had to do this. Hold the throttle wide open , whilst turning the ignition on. Keep throttle wide open for five seconds then close throttle. If there are stored errors, the MIL will blink in dot dash form, repeating the two digit sequence. This gives you a two digit number that refers to an error code, such as Side stand switch shorted to ground. Now there are many codes, and I warn everyone who does not have the knowledge to deal with this to just simply take your bike back to the dealer and let them sort it out. In time we hope to see on the web all these codes, and hopefully a workshop manual.

8. There are many advantages to ecu fuel injection over carb - just look at all cars made today, all are fuel injection, all big bikes are fuel injection - one is the efficiency, two is the reliability, three is it adjusts itself (reads from different maps) depending on the conditions it sees, so for instance if you are riding up the Himalaya, it will detect cooler air, means more dense air, means adjust fuel injection to still give the best combustion - carbs cannot do this.

9. Do not rev your bike as you start - do not touch the throttle - the ECU is programmed to recognise a start, and inject a little more fuel, and set the idle up higher till it warms up - you do not have to do anything.

10. With previous Motronic systems I was able to sit at my laptop, and test all functions of the engine, retune it for different performance levels, and tell when a sensor may be dying, or experiencing a problem - all without getting my hands greasy - so the mechanic of today needs to learn all about these - just check any reputable car workshop - they will definitely have a computer that plugs into the car. Electronics are much more reliable than mechanical.

11. The sprocket from a Honda CB250 fits perfectly on the rear, but there are different models of the CB250 so check the size - Internal hole diameter 58mm, 4 x M10 holes at 90mm diameter. Note that the standards size for a CB250 is 33 teeth, and this engine has less power and torque than our Dukes. It depends on how you ride !!

12. I have not checked, but I think there will be issues changing the Pinion (the front chain sprocket). Standard is 14 teeth, but there is a guard that surrounds it that gives little clearance to go bigger - we need to check this.

Did I miss any ???

So how do we manage questions and answers in the future specifically on the Duke 200 - start a new thread - and be very diligent in succinct questions, and specific answers only - Administrators - what do you think ? The above is getting laborious.
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Old 31st August 2012, 23:32   #433
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

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You mean the device in the pic also reads sensor info?

The one i saw was looking different, it was sort of grey in color & was 'T' shaped.
Yes I'm talking about the box you saw at AutoService!
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Old 1st September 2012, 10:30   #434
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

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Originally Posted by terryv View Post
11. The sprocket from a Honda CB250 fits perfectly on the rear, but there are different models of the CB250 so check the size - Internal hole diameter 58mm, 4 x M10 holes at 90mm diameter. Note that the standards size for a CB250 is 33 teeth, and this engine has less power and torque than our Dukes. It depends on how you ride !!
For the Indians here, both the Kari and the Pulsar 220 as well as the 180 UG4 have the same pitch. The Kari is 40 teeth (3 down from the Duke's 43) and should be where we need to look first, though I've heard the Kari's chain-sprocket sets cost a bomb.

The Pulsar's sprockets are either 37 or 38 (not sure - someone could confirm) so I would personally not go as low as that - the Duke may be able to pull that with or without slipping the clutch, but it would definitely lose some of its current manic signature character and that's a big NO-NO for me at least.

Quote:
12. I have not checked, but I think there will be issues changing the Pinion (the front chain sprocket). Standard is 14 teeth, but there is a guard that surrounds it that gives little clearance to go bigger - we need to check this.
The guard is easily removed - like in most of their motocrossers.

Quote:
Did I miss any ???
Nope - thanks for the detailed post and for contributing.

Quote:
So how do we manage questions and answers in the future specifically on the Duke 200 - start a new thread - and be very diligent in succinct questions, and specific answers only - Administrators - what do you think ? The above is getting laborious.
You split quote and multi quote. Maybe you could try the FAQ "how to" section somewhere here.
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Old 1st September 2012, 23:12   #435
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

I wonder if this is the right thread to post this. Mods please don't delete my post. Please move it to the appropriate thread if necessary. Here goes...

I took delivery of my Duke, "Bad Puppy", on the 3rd of July. Booked it a week before but that wasn't necessary as the waiting period in Chandigarh turned out to be two hours. Made payment at 1600 hrs and was asked to collect the bike at 1800 hrs. They gave me the option of selecting it from the lot but I thought what the hell, I'll just check out the bike they prep. It was scratchless and had 2.4 km on the odometer. Ran fine, too. Cost ~123,000 INR plus ~5050 INR for road tax and registration.

Rode it for 111 km in the city on the 3rd and 4th of July, being careful not to rev it over 5000 RPM. Returned to Noida and left it thereafter in my brother's custody who clocked another 300 km or so on it. I don't know how he rode it but I think he took it easy for the most part. Although he did say he revved it to 8000 RPM once or twice while shifting, after crossing 450 km total. Once all the documents for registration were submitted (on the 2nd of August) and the receipt for the tax and fee collected, bearing the date 03/Oct/2012 for release of the RC, I rode it to Noida. Yes, until then I have to ride it with a temporary number. Varied RPM between 4K to 6K until the bike crossed 650 km after which it was 5K to 7K, biased towards the upper range. From then onwards upshifting was at 7000 to 7500 RPM only. This bike doesn't need to be babied like a CI Bullet 350 or P220 during running in.

Switched to Motul 7100 20W50 at 1st service despite most people (except the service centre guys) recommending against it. From here on I started raising the revs for upshifting by 1000 RPM roughly every 100 km until 10,000 RPM at 1400 km. No throttle blipping before this.

Now the bike is approaching 2800 km and is running fine save for a few issues. Max indicated speed attained was 136-137 km/h today with chinbar 4 inches above the tank. I did hit the rev limiter once at that time but didn't see the speedo at that moment. 130 km/h is mostly attained without crouching albeit at a slower rate. 100 km/h comes quite sooner than on my P220 and directional changes are much quicker, too. Braking is far better. Gear shifts are smooth and the transition from gear to gear is seamless thanks to the close ratio gearbox. Power output is very peaky and not very linear. The motor doesn't give as strong a response to sudden throttle opening at 4000 RPM in 1st gear as the P220 and doesn't pull as cleanly from 1500 - 2000 RPM (close to idle) in 1st gear without slipping the clutch. This means that while the P220 can handle crawling traffic with ease and, without pinking, putter constantly at 7 km/h and accelerate quickly from that speed in first gear, the Duke behaves in the exact opposite manner. Even if I feather the throttle at 2000 RPM in 1st, the engine knocks. Which is why I pull the clutch if revs fall below 3000 per minute. From 4000 to 6000 RPM, the Duke may not 'feel' as quick as the P220 but at 7000 RPM and above, where the latter progressively puts out power, the former simply goes ballistic! That's where the funband... er, powerband starts. Even though the vibes firm up slightly and change tune at 7000 RPM, they almost die out at 10,000 RPM. Engine braking is strong thanks to the shorter gearing and especially the high compression.

Tyres are good but I think the wet grip of the Pirelli Sport Demons I had on my P220 were better in the wet than these. Also, the 150-section rear tyre seems narrower than the 140s on the FZ-16 and CBR250R. Low beam spread covers one lane at a distance one would keep one's sight at while riding at 70 km/h as opposed to the P220's two lanes but it's adequate. High beam throw is less than that of the P220's but spread is better which I find to my liking. Once I accidentally touched the starter button when the engine was idling and the starter cranked! The starter motor also fires if the ignition is on and the kill switch off. These two situations don't occur with the P220.

I also got the front fork crashpads installed for Rs 2220+12.5% = Rs 2497/- at Dewan's near Kalkaji. The left one got loose yesterday which I fortunately detected when the bike was stationary. Could've lost it on the go. Went to service centre (Suman, Noida) to get it tightened with Loctite this time. The exhaust pipe is now shiny brown with some magenta on the top area and blue streaks all over. Was thinking of getting it chrome plated so that it only turns golden brown and no other colour but I think I like the multicolour look. It's just that I would prefer it shiny blue/brown like on the Triumph Bonneville and some Bullets (Never liked it on my Bullet, though) and not dull like you see in photos of the Ducati 1199 Panigale.
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KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!-20120825-15.54.22.jpg  

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