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Old 8th March 2012, 21:14   #91
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

In fact, I am yet to receive my bike Most likely tomorrow will be the D-day and if everything goes according to plan, I will end up with 350+ on the odo by Monday. That's why the question. I'm thinking of not taking more than 35-40Km at a stretch for first 500Km atleast.
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Old 8th March 2012, 22:56   #92
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

Hi Shreeda do you mind telling me your Ref No., just want to estimate when am I getting mine, Iam No.100 from Bangalore
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Old 8th March 2012, 23:40   #93
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

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Originally Posted by deetee View Post
We have handling, power and comfort in baby duke
As a base riding platform, that's a pretty good start for me.

Add looks, attitude, brakes, equipment/trim, and decent mileage to the mix too.

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Undoubtedly, the duke is a fun machine, with adequate power, charisma and build for our roads. But my personal opinion is, it is still a city street fighter or short weekend getaway bike. Nope, not designed to be a tourer.
A bike is what you make it do. Everything else is simply labels and pigeon-holing.

When Nick Sanders does an around-the-world on an R1, it becomes a tourer.

Quote:
Since, lots of research might already have gone into its design, I would be shaken and stirred if "each and every point that is routed to the correct people will actually be worked on, atleast in next two years." I would not be surprised if all this feedback collection is to improve tits and bits on the 'duke look-a-like' pulsar 200NS.
There are already enough Pulsar 200NS that have been on our roads for the past 2 months being ridden by normal riders like us, doing all that normal riders do, for enough real-world feedback for the Bajaj guys.

The feedback given to Bajaj by riders with more than 2 decades of riding experience under their belts each, does not involve changing the base DNA of the machine.

It involves pushing the bike close to and beyond its design envelope and seeing what gives. And then what can be done to make it better without necessarily going back to the drawing board.
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Old 9th March 2012, 00:21   #94
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

Just checked my inbox and find the absolutely unbelievable - Praveen has actually taken the time and effort (between putting patients to sleep) to pen down some quick thoughts on his tryst with Baby Duke 222!

Pasted below are his thoughts -

KTM Duke 200 1st impressions


Intro:

Acknowledgements:

This road trip wouldn’t have been possible without my good friend Dr. Vistasp Sethna (VS).

His unfailing enthusiasm in making the acquisition of the motorcycle, the logistics of the ride and the kick up my bum to write this review is truly remarkable.

I would also like to thank my wife for supporting me in pursuing my passion and interest.

The following people also deserve a mention for going beyond their regular job with full dedication and commitment.

Mr. Raju (GM Service, Bajaj KTM, Madgaon - for doing an excellent job on the first service and even giving VS’s old Doppie (Enfield Bullet) a good wash.

Mr. Brijesh (Bajaj, KTM, Pune - for always being available as a liaison officer and a point of contact between us and KTM Bajaj organisation)

Affiliations:

I am not affiliated to any companies or organisations mentioned in this review. The opinions expressions herein are entirely my own and are in no way endorsement or objection of any product and/or company.

KTM Duke 200 single cylinder ‘review’:

The bike looks beautiful, clean lines, aggressive stance, trademark KTM, orange and black colouring. The seat height was very comfortable for my height 5ft 10; the handlebars position is neutral; the footpegs are pushed back slightly to give the typical motard stance; the rear seat is slightly raised above the rider’s seat and provides excellent support for lower back.

The controls are all easy to use. The front brake lever is not adjustable (not a good thing). The front brake initially had a significant bite, but as the brake bed-in, it was comfortable and easy to use.

The clutch lever is again non-adjustable.

The rear brake is poorly designed; there is very limited play and it’s very easy to lock up. And yes, there is no adjustment.

The size of the fuel tank are smooth and shiny (not good) and hence prevents gripping of the tank whilst leaning into corners. A set of after market grip pads should easily solve this problem.

The dashboard is great; it’s full of good information and then some more...I particularly liked the riding time indicator and average speed which helps you work out if you are keeping pace and when it’s time to have a break.

Ready to ride:

As you sit on the bike the rear end sags a bit too much; so much so that the side stand hits the floor. In fact the side stand is so tall that the bike could easily fall over to its right if the ground is not completely horizontal or has a slight bank to the left. I clicked the rear settings + 2 above the stock setting and that corrected the excessive sag on the rear suspension.

Ready to race:

So I start the engine up; easy push button start; idles at 15000rpm; sounds smooth; gears 1 down 5 up. As I started riding this bike, I felt as if it was choking. It just wasn’t pulling up. I thought ‘this can’t be right’. A 200cc KTM should have more punch than this. So I took the seat off, took the air box cover off and couldn’t believe the length of the air box intake. It’s a mile long (about 14 inches), runs all the way back along the seat, pointing backwards.

You wonder, how is this engine getting any air into it? So, the first thing I did was to chop off the plastic pipe about 2 inches away from the air box cover.

(Ebonho note: The expressions on the faces of those around, including mine, when we suddenly turn around to see Praveen head down, furiously sawing away with a hacksaw blade, were worth capturing for posterity! LOL)

I cut it at an angle so the warm air from the cat converter could find its way into the air box. (it’s very simple, the more air goes in, engine begins to run lean, the 02 sensor in the exhaust manifold, senses its change and sends the signal to ECU; pumps in more fuel, bike goes faster).

The change this mod made to the engine response was quite remarkable.
However on riding on the freeway I felt a distinct prolonged throttle response so I tightened the throttle cable to have zero play. That improved things a bit but really the bike needs a larger pulley to have a 90 degree throttle response.

Braking is very good; bike stops well; the front brakes are good; the rear brakes need
more gradual response from zero to lock. Wide handlebars and upright riding position is great for weaving through traffic and riding all day without getting a sore back.

Luggage: no real provision for carrying any luggage; could be modified by removing the rear seat and installing a custom plate and/or removing rear footpegs and bolting on an aluminium frame.

I’m working on a design and will post it once ready.

Cheers
PV

Last edited by ebonho : 9th March 2012 at 00:40. Reason: Formatted.
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Old 9th March 2012, 01:10   #95
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Just checked my inbox and find the absolutely unbelievable - Praveen has actually taken the time and effort (between putting patients to sleep) to pen down some quick thoughts on his tryst with Baby Duke 222!

Pasted below are his thoughts -

KTM Duke 200 1st impressions


Wonderful insights. Did you speak to Bajaj engineers on the air intake thingie? What was their reaction and are they willing to change it in future?

Note from support - Please avoid quoting an entire/lengthy post since it inconveniences our mobile/small screen users.

Last edited by n_aditya : 9th March 2012 at 10:40.
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Old 9th March 2012, 08:03   #96
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
When Nick Sanders does an around-the-world on an R1, it becomes a tourer.
I liked it, I mean your statement not R1

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
The feedback given to Bajaj by riders with more than 2 decades of riding experience under their belts each, does not involve changing the base DNA of the machine.
It involves pushing the bike close to and beyond its design envelope and seeing what gives. And then what can be done to make it better without necessarily going back to the drawing board.
I should have elaborated in my previous post. My statement was specific to tourer perspective of machine. See, what I meant is, as a customer/consumer we give our feedback based on our varying experience levels- yes it can be quite helpful in making the product more usable. But thinking from manufacturer perspective: after spending much time and money in research,design, setting up tools, supply and assembly lines and testing we come up with a product. That product will have a core segment of consumers as target market while catering to a much broader sect of consumers who can be classified into various market segments. To make the product sell volumes, we have to design and market it in such a way that its core segment is as voluminous as possible. So, once it is established and becomes a dominant player, then we think of expanding its usage to other next potential segments.

Now, the product in question is baby duke. Its target market segment is the blooming premium street sports bike sales.The majority target buyers of the bike are between 20-30 years, give or take 2 years on either side. And they are there in good numbers. And most of them don't do much highway long rides. So, a fast, premium, quality and stylish bike is sufficient to sell like hot cakes in this segment. Thats what Duke 200 is about. Now, adding a few anchor points may look like a small job but it involves changing the tools, altering/adding suppliers, testing the vehicle with loads (tied to those anchor points). Again this involves time and money. But what additional market envelop does all this effort cover. Not much. So, either they will choose not to take up such changes or if they find the effort profitable, then they will bring up accessories like luggage rack etc.,. to mint additional money apart from bikes cost.
Those are my personal observations.

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
The controls are all easy to use. The front brake lever is not adjustable (not a good thing). The front brake initially had a significant bite, but as the brake bed-in, it was comfortable and easy to use.

The clutch lever is again non-adjustable.


An excellent unbiased review! Thanks a ton! more than the review it is his views what tells us where to see when we evaluate a bike.

I didn't understand what is meant by being non-adjustable. Is it the play or angle? Is not there any screw to loosen and rotate the lever assembly to suit it to rider's palms? I didn't see the bike yet in person, sorry.


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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
The size of the fuel tank are smooth and shiny (not good) and hence prevents gripping of the tank whilst leaning into corners. A set of after market grip pads should easily solve this problem.
I was thinking tank pads purpose is only to prevent abrasion from riding pants. A revelation to me.

Sawing off the air intake pipe looks to be first and easiest performance mod on Duke that every owner can do it on their own. But, doesn't it affect warranty?
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Old 9th March 2012, 09:12   #97
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

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Originally Posted by Dragonheart22 View Post
Hi Shreeda do you mind telling me your Ref No., just want to estimate when am I getting mine, Iam No.100 from Bangalore
Hi my number is also 100 odd. I think they had sent all of us an email together. So they will be following the payment order among us. I made the payment on Monday morning. Everything depends upon when you made the full payment.
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Old 9th March 2012, 10:25   #98
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

Got my Duke 200 yesterday

have few queries if Duke owners can answer. Where does the temp meter stays in normal city riding ? Also i stalled the bike few times(never happened to me with any bike). If the speed is too low like less than 20 and i try to accelerate in 2nd or 3rd gear sometimes it just stalls, if shift to 1st no problem. Anyone facing this problem ? is it something to do with FI ?

Last edited by Rahulkool : 9th March 2012 at 10:27.
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Old 9th March 2012, 10:49   #99
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
The front brake lever is not adjustable (not a good thing). The clutch lever is again non-adjustable.
Try sourcing aftermarket adjustable levers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
The rear brake is poorly designed; there is very limited play and it’s very easy to lock up. And yes, there is no adjustment.
Avoid using the rear brake and practice braking using only the front brakes. If you should use the rear brakes, gently tap the lever with the edge of your shoe/boot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
A set of after market grip pads should easily solve this problem.

Check this out. Here is a DIY for the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Luggage: no real provision for carrying any luggage; could be modified by removing the rear seat and installing a custom plate and/or removing rear footpegs and bolting on an aluminium frame.
You might want to consider the RJays Platinum Series Elite Tailbag (refer to my thread for pics). It packs quite a bit of stuff and expands to nearly double its size.
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Old 9th March 2012, 10:51   #100
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Wonderful insights. Did you speak to Bajaj engineers on the air intake thingie? What was their reaction and are they willing to change it in future?
Yes we did - at three different levels. Photographs were taken by them from different angles. Plus the bike was with them (Service, QA, R&D) for a few days post the ride as well. I haven't heard anything from them on this yet, but am willing to put both set-ups to real life tests and report the difference if any.

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Originally Posted by deetee View Post
I didn't understand what is meant by being non-adjustable. Is it the play or angle? Is not there any screw to loosen and rotate the lever assembly to suit it to rider's palms? I didn't see the bike yet in person, sorry.
The lever arm is articulated to be able to adjust the reach. It would have been a nice touch.

Quote:
I was thinking tank pads purpose is only to prevent abrasion from riding pants. A revelation to me.
These are friction pads for grip for the knees/inner thighs on the sides of the tank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahulkool View Post
Got my Duke 200 yesterday

have few queries if Duke owners can answer. Where does the temp meter stays in normal city riding ? Also i stalled the bike few times(never happened to me with any bike). If the speed is too low like less than 20 and i try to accelerate in 2nd or 3rd gear sometimes it just stalls, if shift to 1st no problem. Anyone facing this problem ? is it something to do with FI ?
Congrats Rahul! You'll get the hang of it. I've done it a couple of times myself. No big deal. Just keep the revs up slightly.

The temperature gauge is usually a couple of blocks short of the max. range in the main/normal segment when ridden in city traffic. It gets there pretty quickly as well and then settles down without increase. No problem as long as you are within the main segment.

Last edited by ebonho : 9th March 2012 at 10:53.
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Old 9th March 2012, 12:10   #101
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

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Originally Posted by n_aditya View Post
Try sourcing aftermarket adjustable levers.
Quote:
Check this out. Here is a DIY for the same.
There is a ton of after-market stuff available bro, but the idea behind the feedback was for the company to provide the options for the riders, in functional/design areas where we felt the product could be bettered and a simple workaround existed..

The company is already about to come out with the pads. The levers we will have to see. Made in bulk out here, what's available for 2.5K outside, could well be offered for under 1K. I think that's worth asking for - especially if it helps and is not just bling (like tank led's and rim tape ....).

Quote:
Avoid using the rear brake and practice braking using only the front brakes. If you should use the rear brakes, gently tap the lever with the edge of your shoe/boot.
I'm sorry buddy but that sounds a little like trying to work around an issue rather than addressing it. The rear brake is there because it serves a purpose. That purpose is not served if it locks up.

Yes, we do use a lot of the front brake. But that does not negate the need for a rear brake that will not lock easily when you do dab it a trifle more than normal.

Trail braking goes out of the window with these in their current form. Not to mention a lot of terrain we get here with loose shale and gravel on a hard packed under-surface.

We took turns at trying to slide the bike in the ghats at Panchgani where there was road work going on. It was simply too easy and uncontrolled. Ditto on shiny slick concrete.

And this is in the dry.
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Old 9th March 2012, 12:14   #102
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post

Congrats Rahul! You'll get the hang of it. I've done it a couple of times myself. No big deal. Just keep the revs up slightly.

The temperature gauge is usually a couple of blocks short of the max. range in the main/normal segment when ridden in city traffic. It gets there pretty quickly as well and then settles down without increase. No problem as long as you are within the main segment.
Thanks ebonho. One more thing i was wondering if you feel the firing of the engine is irregular ? specially while idling it does not sound linear like other bikes.

even for me the the temp meter stays just 2-3 blocks lower than maximum. The fan comes up only for few secs and switches off on its own.
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Old 9th March 2012, 12:26   #103
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Thanks ebonho. One more thing i was wondering if you feel the firing of the engine is irregular ? specially while idling it does not sound linear like other bikes.
Can't say I've noticed that on my bike. Could be the ECU "searching" when the bike initially comes on.
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Old 9th March 2012, 12:29   #104
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Default Re: KTM Duke 200 : Baby Duke 222 unites with her new family!

I am little skeptical about the tyres , although on paper the rear is 150 wide , the actual part that touches the tarmac is very little as I saw yesterday .I hardly see any groves ,it looks like slicks .Need to see how this behaves in wet and how it disperses the water.

@BAJAJ/KTM - one more list of items they need to give as optional are touring tires.

@ebonho ,did you get a chance to move in wet patches ?

Last edited by black12rr : 9th March 2012 at 12:31.
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Old 9th March 2012, 12:46   #105
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I am little skeptical about the tyres , although on paper the rear is 150 wide , the actual part that touches the tarmac is very little as I saw yesterday .I hardly see any groves ,it looks like slicks .Need to see how this behaves in wet and how it disperses the water.

@BAJAJ/KTM - one more list of items they need to give as optional are touring tires.

@ebonho ,did you get a chance to move in wet patches ?
No idea about the wet performance bro. Though I'm assuming these have been through at least one Pune monsoon during the testing phase. In the dry they are pretty soft and grippy. They do not have much of an overhang beyond the rim, nor do they have much in the way of sidewall height as well though. Unless you are doing a lot of leaning and riding in the twisties, you will be using only the central section more often than not and not the considerable shoulders on what is a pretty round profile tyre. Look like pure high performance (good) tarmac tyres. Loads of smaller sbk guys eyeing them as a cheap Indian alternative as well

Last edited by ebonho : 9th March 2012 at 13:02.
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