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Old 14th May 2012, 17:40   #16
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Default Re: My brand new KTM engine seized!

Dropping the bike could have resulted in the fork oil leak - but they shouldve checked it out at the service. would it be possible that she lost some coolant during the fall . maybe that can explain the coolant failure. anyway tough luck about the seizure. make sure u get everything replaced under warranty . ideally u should've been present at the S.S. to access the damage - surprised they didnt inform u before they replacing the top end. Keep updating ur progess . All the Best !
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Old 14th May 2012, 18:19   #17
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Default Re: My brand new KTM engine seized!

Sorry to hear about the seizure bro.

Keep us informed about how the Bajaj/KTM guys look into this and follow up with you.

I do not think they will take issues like seizures lightly.

That said, ANY bike can seize. Its a machine. And there could be a host of reasons - or simply a freak reason no one thought of.

I personally am surprised that they did not take in your bike and keep it for testing and strip it down completely to get into what exactly happened.

It should not happen on such a motor with KTM backed parts and machining.
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Old 14th May 2012, 18:59   #18
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Default Re: My brand new KTM engine seized!

I have read on KTM FB page , KTM replacing the entire block for a rider. I am unable to source the same now.Do try and get in touch with KTM on FB. They are quite active there may help you to get in touch with the right channel.

Best of luck!!
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Old 14th May 2012, 19:52   #19
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Default Re: My brand new KTM engine seized!

You should have mailed Bajaj and asked for a proper explanation as to why it happened. There must be a manufacturing defect but engine seizure in these times that too so early in a bike's life doesnt cut the cake with any owner and goes to show there are some flaws in the quality check department.

Small niggles like radiator caps etc are acceptable but the Duke is an expensive bike and failures like these do give a hit on an owner's confidence.

Just hope its a one off case, have fun with the Duke.
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Old 15th May 2012, 00:19   #20
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Default Re: My brand new KTM engine seized!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2StrokeJunkie View Post
Dropping the bike could have resulted in the fork oil leak -
The fork oil started to leak on the third day after delivery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
Not sure how a bike suddenly becomes adaptaple to the higher temperature at higher RPM and Speed. This whole 1000 km below 60 and then rip the heart out does not make sense.
I would advice you to slowly tune the engine for high speed and not worry about this 1000Km limit.
On all my bikes I always build up speed and duration way before I try any land speed records. With the KTM i had completed 2k km of all verying speeds before I had a go at WOT.

Thanks for all you heartfelt comments. I will write to KTM and gets some answers and keep you guys updated.
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Old 15th May 2012, 08:48   #21
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Default Re: My brand new KTM engine seized!

More than the quality of the parts the quality of the service engineers is to be blamed here. No matter we get the best bikes in India, the quality of the service engineers is really sad. They are picked up with little or no prior experience and given basic training to handle general service. To top it all there are even better people to handle the customer service, they tell you stories and excuses that will make you go deaf for a minute.
Like I always say no real service happens at a service center and they should be called "replacement centers" since most of the time parts are just replaced.
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Old 15th May 2012, 09:17   #22
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Default Re: My brand new KTM engine seized!

Very sorry to hear about your bike. I read this thread yesterday and had nothing to say other than filing a case against Bajaj / KTM. Here's a recent such order against Honda Motorcycles & Scooters India - Link here.
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Old 15th May 2012, 17:22   #23
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Default Re: My brand new KTM engine seized!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDC View Post
I got my Duke 200...the 690 more than any thing!
Forgot to ask you something more vital; did you happen to see the piston & cylinder when they opened up? Took any pictures? How did the scratches look on the piston & the walls of cylinder? Were they on both the sides or one side or at multiple places? Did that happen at inlet or outlet or any other side?

Just curious for analysis & nothing more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
nothing to say other than filing a case against Bajaj / KTM
My friend, do you know that the case will never withstand in first place for the very reason that KTM/BAL offers a replacement kit under warranty? Had they not acknowledged then that's something different. Honda's case is completely different because even after repeated visits to ASC, they failed to resolve the issue & hence the court case worked...after 7 years

Last edited by aargee : 15th May 2012 at 17:26.
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Old 15th May 2012, 18:15   #24
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Default Re: My brand new KTM engine seized!

Anything further from the Bajaj teh guys on why/how the bike seized?

What about their theory about "air pocket" in the radiator circuit. How did it happen and how are you/they sure that it will not repeat?

Did they run diagnostics off the socket under the pillion seat?

I am surprised that there was no yellow triangle warning seen either on the High Temperature or the Low Coolant or the Low Oil front.

Hope you follow up and get a proper explanation - and relay it back to us as well please!
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Old 16th May 2012, 06:05   #25
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Default Re: My brand new KTM engine seized!

TDC - Sorry to hear your experience, This looks like a one off case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahulkool View Post
I have been really revvin the bike like crazy after first 1000kms were over, in first 4 gears, touching rev limiter several times, this thread makes me think again about my riding style or if it is really safe.
We are pretty sure, this gives a HINT to you
please ignore the latter part of this post for better life of your duke.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolboy007 View Post
You should have mailed Bajaj and asked for a proper explanation as to why it happened. There must be a manufacturing defect but engine seizure in these times that too so early in a bike's life doesnt cut the cake with any owner and goes to show there are some flaws in the quality check department.

Small niggles like radiator caps etc are acceptable but the Duke is an expensive bike and failures like these do give a hit on an owner's confidence.

Just hope its a one off case, have fun with the Duke.
Rajat - I am sure, writing a mail will not do any good, as they would have told him why and what happened.
It also depends on a number of things.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aargee View Post
Forgot to ask you something more vital; did you happen to see the piston & cylinder when they opened up? Took any pictures? How did the scratches look on the piston & the walls of cylinder? Were they on both the sides or one side or at multiple places? Did that happen at inlet or outlet or any other side?
Did the All-in-one meter didn't show and warnings?

P.S: I have been really thrashing my bike and its perfect, Met the xBhp GIR Team last week, rode the KTM They took on TRIP, it s perfect after 16,000kms, No SIGNs of performance deterioration, leaned better due to tyre less on side and center.

Wheelie,- stoppie - AWESOME!!!.
No Issues whatsoever, an it was run mostly 100plus kays on daily basis in 2 months.
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Old 16th May 2012, 09:06   #26
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Default Re: My brand new KTM engine seized!

I will write to KTM and see if I can get any answers. They are selling a premium product and charging accordingly so, its not my job to sort out their niggles. After they last returned my bike, its got some rattle under the seat/tank. Honestly I really don't have the time to keep on running to the service center every week and dealing with the monkey masquerading as a "Service Manager". I've pretty made up my mind to sell the bike once my bullet is back on the road

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post

I am surprised that there was no yellow triangle warning seen either on the High Temperature or the Low Coolant or the Low Oil front.
Thats what I told the service people. They obviously had nothing to say. I really don't understand this "air pocket theory". Isn't there a water pump that is actively pumping the coolant through the system? How would that affect things?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aargee View Post
Forgot to ask you something more vital; did you happen to see the piston & cylinder when they opened up?
I asked to see the piston and bore, but they said they had to send it back to the company to get the replacement parts.
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Old 16th May 2012, 10:41   #27
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Default Re: My brand new KTM engine seized!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDC View Post
Thats what I told the service people. They obviously had nothing to say. I really don't understand this "air pocket theory". Isn't there a water pump that is actively pumping the coolant through the system? How would that affect things?
Maybe the same way air entry to the fuel line of a diesel vehicle would stop the supply of Diesel to the engine eventhough there's a pump in the system?

Not sure myself either, hope someone can clarify this air in the water jacket/coolant hose more effectively.
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Old 16th May 2012, 11:23   #28
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Default Re: My brand new KTM engine seized!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Maybe the same way air entry to the fuel line of a diesel vehicle would stop the supply of Diesel to the engine eventhough there's a pump in the system?

Not sure myself either, hope someone can clarify this air in the water jacket/coolant hose more effectively.
If the air pocket is trapped in the coolant line and stops the flow in the circuit, the temperature will rise quickly.

The temperature bars will go beyond the safe cutoff (did that happen?) and the high temperature warning light (orange triangle) will come on (did that happen?).

I remember asking Mr. Pingle this question during the Pune DIY session - does the coolant cap have a breather hole/valve. He had said no.

So I wonder (1) Where does the air enter from; and (2) if it does enter, or the slight head of air above the coolant level gets entrapped within the circulation, how does it escape or is bled away?
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Old 16th May 2012, 12:30   #29
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Default Re: My brand new KTM engine seized!

^^i don't buy this theory about air pockets, even if air pockets are there. The coolant is circulated through a mechanical pump(please correct me if i am wrong), even if there is small air pocket, the circulation won't stop because of the pressure. Unless there is no coolant supply or there is some blockage. Also the temperature takes a while to rise and bike will start knocking, so rider will easily know something is wrong before this kind of damage is done.
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Old 16th May 2012, 12:49   #30
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Default Re: My brand new KTM engine seized!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahulkool View Post
Also the temperature takes a while to rise and bike will start knocking, so rider will easily know something is wrong before this kind of damage is done.
Not really. In a liquid cooled (not oil cooled) bike, the engine has no other way to exchange heat built up (eg. flowing air) and temperatures will build up very quickly if something goes wrong with the circulation.

Even in the DIY, we were clearly told that if the Low Coolant sign ever comes on, we are to immediately stop the bike, pull over to the sid of the road, call up the Bajaj guys, and in an emergency fill in normal water into the coolant reservoir, and proceed back to the nearest Bajaj/KTM workshop at very slow (40-50 kmph) speeds.

If something had gone wrong with his coolant flow, it would have built up very quickly. And the engine would have grenaded and piston seized when he did his top speed run - i.e. when the bie was doing 130+ kmph.

Take it from someone who has experienced his fair share of overheating seizures. There is no knocking or adventitious sounds as warning. The bike will in fact be running very smooth just before it happens. Then just before, you will feel like you need more throttle (as if you are going up a gradient). In the final stage, just before both metal surfaces start grinding together, the rpm's will go down (the bike slows, loses momentum perceptibly), and if you don't still recognise the signs, you try giving even more throttle - and then the piston catches! Everything very silent till that point ....

If the piston catches and you immediately catch it in time and react and pull in the clutch, the bike will stop. You wait for it to cool. Pour in some oil after some time (there will be white smoke billowing from the oil inlet). The surfaces cool off, and the iston and bore contract and release. You can then restart and move on but if enough material has been transfered from the softer metal surfece (aluminum piston) to the harder metal surface (cast iron bore) then you will have the rat-a-tat sound when the bie is cold which goes away slightly as the bike warms up. You can continue running the bike like this for some time, but the rings will eventually get scored and damaged, the bike will increasingly drink oil and lose compression, and you will need a top end replacement/rebuild after a few thousand kilometers.

If you haven't pulled in the clutch quickly, then the bike tightens, the surfaces grind together, material transfer happens, the rat-a-tat starts and gets louder, till finally the compression is lost totally as the rings canot seal off the badly scored bore, and the bike stops. That is catclysmic seizure and the bike is not going anywhere on its own steam after that and you need to re-build/replace your top end.

Last edited by ebonho : 16th May 2012 at 12:53.
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