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Old 24th May 2012, 20:23   #1
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Default Time for a diesel scooter?

I feel the time has come for a diesel scooter now, what with petrol prices flying through the roof. If a person has a Swift diesel and a Honda Activa scooter and if both vehicles do the same monthly running, the owner ends up spending nearly same or more on scooter than car, thanks to petrol prices.

We have seen how diesel has turned the car market upside down. From mere 12 per cent a few years ago to nearly 50 per cent now ( and still climbing as we read this, I'm sure ). There is not a single diesel two-wheeler in the market today. In 80s, we had an agricultural Sooraj diesel based on Enfield underpinnings. But what we need today is not a Sooraj but a throrough modern light-weight diesel scooter with CVT. It will be the work-mule for car-less families who are spending nearly same on fuel for their scooter as their neighbours do on their diesel econo-hatch. Well, how unjust can things be? Even to a diesel car owner who has a CVT scooter to run errands, it pinches to top up his scoot with a fuel which costs more than one and a half times what he puts in his car.

I am sure the time for a diesel CVT scooter has come. And I am sure only Bajaj can take the plunge if it can source or develop in-house a compact light-weight diesel. If that happens, it will be like re-inventing scooter. Like a second revolution in scooter market. First being when CVT scooters arrived. So, can we see some in near future? Why should only car owners have all the fun? Let scooter riders also join the party.
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Old 24th May 2012, 23:00   #2
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Hero is working on diesel motorcycle,butit would still take about 2 years to hit the road
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Old 25th May 2012, 08:21   #3
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Default Re: Time for a diesel scooter?

Scooter is supposed to be light weight commuter. add a heavier battery, extra weight of engine, handling that extra torque at flywheel (think friction management for the CVT unit - fast wear) - its an epic fail. btw, i'm assumin we do not want a turbo unit (to keep costs down here - so bad FE and bigger cylinders) also, how do you manage pollution control in such a small form factor. Petrol CVT has got much reliable but diesel has challanges. it will be atleast 80-90K to buy and servicing/reliability will be a question for new purchases.
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Old 25th May 2012, 09:41   #4
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Default Re: Time for a diesel scooter?

For the same weight of that bike, if the company adds batteries, then electric vehicle is a better options. Just a gut feeling, without any scientific study.
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Old 25th May 2012, 17:58   #5
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Default Re: Time for a diesel scooter?

It will be too noisy and complicated and expensive.

Its better to do something like a CNG kit where the tank is hidden and neatly integrated into the side.
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Old 25th May 2012, 18:13   #6
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Default Re: Time for a diesel scooter?

In the short term it sounds like the way to go but eventually the diesel prices would be shored up or a one time tax may be applied. Also, may not do much for the diesel supply situation in the long term.
This is before we talk about noise/ pollution, etc.

Wasnt there a bike, perhaps Rajdoot that ran on diesel? Or was it a petrol one that also worked with diesel. And kerosene?!

FYI, one of our fellow bhpians is working on creating a diesel powered 2 wheeled beast.
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Old 25th May 2012, 18:24   #7
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Default Re: Time for a diesel scooter?

Isn't Mahindra Duro DZ a diesel scooter?
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Old 25th May 2012, 18:30   #8
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Default Re: Time for a diesel scooter?

^^ lol no

I think it will be way too complicated and expensive. IMO better option will be too make the petrol engine more frugal. I think there is more scope in this with advancement as fuel injection, multi valve etc. 20-25 year back scooters used to do 35-40 kmpl and even today it has not improved much.
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Old 25th May 2012, 22:44   #9
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Default Re: Time for a diesel scooter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
It will be too noisy and complicated and expensive.
Mpower, isn't this what they said about diesel cars a few years ago? But look where they stand today. Not only in terms of economy but even in terms of performance diesels are leaving petrols behind.

As for sound, trust me it will grow on us. I remember first time I heard Activa ten year ago, I laughed. It was the first 4-stroke scooter and it sounded funny. We were not used to scooters making such sound. But today Actva sounds much better than Kinetic Honda ZX. Granted that diesel will never be as quiet as petrol but when it is time to refill, all pains will be forgotten. Besides technology, especially diesel technology is getting there.

I strongly feel that a huge chunk of unexplored market lies there. Even guys below poverty line own two-wheelers and for them petrol prices are back-breaking.

Last edited by pgsagar : 25th May 2012 at 22:45.
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Old 25th May 2012, 22:53   #10
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Default Re: Time for a diesel scooter?

Considering a significant percentage of two wheelers are used without a pillion, a much more fuel efficient 2 wheeler with lower power would be a better bet.

Why do we need 125 and 150 cc bikes - why not a 70 cc 100+ kmpl vehicle ?
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Old 25th May 2012, 22:59   #11
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If I am correct,a british team of engineers is within striking distance. They have been working on an all alloy motor with compression ratio of over 28 .
Real development for high pressure diesel is just gathering pace. Diesel engines will be the only thing running when natural reserves dries up, our get too costly.
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Old 25th May 2012, 23:48   #12
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Default Re: Time for a diesel scooter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post

I strongly feel that a huge chunk of unexplored market lies there. Even guys below poverty line own two-wheelers and for them petrol prices are back-breaking.
Petrol prices may be "back-breaking" figuratively, but a diesel two wheeler will be "back-breaking" literally.

All development you see on diesel engines are only in the fuel injection side. The inherent vibration of diesel engines due to higher compression ratio, heavier pistons, etc., have not been addressed yet. Dont be fooled by the quietness of current CRDI engines.

Like Mpower said, it will be too expensive and complicated if you really desire to use it in a motorcycle frame design. I do not know if Hero is a type of company that cares about the long term health of it's product users or not. Like I posted on a similar thread long time ago, I will be extremely proud if an Indian company is able to come out with a low cost solution to the vibration problem, but I am not holding my breath waiting for that to happen either.

And since we are still miles away from bio diesel, natural resources is still the only source for diesel. Dont let subsidies make you think it's cheaper to make.

Cheers

Ride Safe.
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Old 26th May 2012, 00:50   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthang

Petrol prices may be "back-breaking" figuratively, but a diesel two wheeler will be "back-breaking" literally.

All development you see on diesel engines are only in the fuel injection side. The inherent vibration of diesel engines due to higher compression ratio, heavier pistons, etc., have not been addressed yet. Dont be fooled by the quietness of current CRDI engines.

Like Mpower said, it will be too expensive and complicated if you really desire to use it in a motorcycle frame design. I do not know if Hero is a type of company that cares about the long term health of it's product users or not. Like I posted on a similar thread long time ago, I will be extremely proud if an Indian company is able to come out with a low cost solution to the vibration problem, but I am not holding my breath waiting for that to happen either.

And since we are still miles away from bio diesel, natural resources is still the only source for diesel. Dont let subsidies make you think it's cheaper to make.

Cheers

Ride Safe.
Development on injection side has lowered vibration, emissions, and increased power.
And no one is getting fooled by crdi present gen. No one needs a proof that they are already quite decent in all areas.New alloys have made huge impact on size and weight, these days 3l units are making nearly 400bhp with 800nm at half the revs with compared with 3l gas motor,that too on road going car. while being lighter than gas motor as well.

Well ignore subsidies, even when diesel is priced at par , it still will go as much as 50% more kmpl.
And that bio diesel is just kitchen distance away.

Note from Support: Personal attacks are against the rules of the forum.

Last edited by Eddy : 26th May 2012 at 19:47. Reason: Note Inline
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Old 26th May 2012, 15:03   #14
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Default Re: Time for a diesel scooter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gthang View Post
Petrol prices may be "back-breaking" figuratively, but a diesel two wheeler will be "back-breaking" literally.

Dont be fooled by the quietness of current CRDI engines.

Ride Safe.
Man, your post sounds harsh. Granted, you may not like such a product but why rubbish it? Diesels have improved vastly. Ok, agreed after all these improvements it may still sound more than petrol engine does. That is why I said diesel scooter and not diesel mototrcycle. Scooter has a car like engine compartment - a cowl where engine can be tucked away and with sound deadening insulation lining the cowl, sound can be contained. Plus a scooter is more practical than a motorcyle in that it has bag carrying space. Also, mostly car-less, average income start-up familymen use scooter rather than motorcycle for this practicality. They want a work mule, not a race bike. But then again who knows, with the way the diesels are beating petrols, this diesel scooter may just turn out to be a bike-beater.

I would definitely buy such a product. Why? Let me tell you. I can easily afford Rs.80 petrol -- my running on scooter being very less and my income being reasonably well. So it doesn't break my back as much as it irritates me to fill an 80 rupee fuel in my piddly Activa while my diesel Lancer sips 50 rupees diesel. There is more. My Activa returns only 20 kpl. Lot of other Activa owners also complain about low mileage of Activa ( from 20 to 25 kpl ). It may be hugely practical but not fuel efficient at all. My old 2-stroke Kinetic ZX used to return better mileage. Hence, a regular scoot user would definitely feel the pinch.

Lastly, you may not agree with me that's ok, but there IS a big market for such a product. And that is what this thread is about.
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Old 26th May 2012, 15:54   #15
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Default Re: Time for a diesel scooter?

When there is a huge market for diesel cars even though they are expensive by over 1 lakh (than their petrol engine model), there will be a huge demand if some one comes up with a diesel scooter.
There are many people who will buy a diesel scooter even though it has more vibrations and harshness because all they want is a cheaper mode of transport. A diesel scooter may be cheaper than a bus commute.
People who want a smooth ride always have an option of buying a petrol scooter.

I also think LPG/CNG scooter makes sense as the fuel costs similar to diesel and its easy to fit a tank in scooter.
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