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Old 13th December 2012, 20:34   #196
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Red face re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

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Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
Frankly Asif, so what? If the engineering is good as has been proven by the KTM 200, what's the difference between Indian and foreign built bike. High time we start appreciating our own engineering.
No doubts about the engineering. The only feeling i got when the 200 came out is that Bajaj would again have the same platform and keep introducing "newer" models, similarly what they did with Pulsar 150-180-200-220 or Discover-135-100 etc. And seeing the specs of the 390 again with the same chassis, brakes, electricals, tyres etc. I think that KTM would have definitely brought out a different package.

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Originally Posted by manolin View Post
What we ask for, we get. We ask for robust 100cc bikes, and seeing the kind of abuse that our 100cc bikes can take for years, our engineering is spot on with the requirements.
Sure what we can afford is what we buy. That doesn't mean we get the best of the world also. No offense but when I buy a 100cc bike i aspect it to give me 100kmpl and nothing else.What one expects from a superbike can't be expected from a commuter.
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Old 14th December 2012, 11:09   #197
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

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Originally Posted by Asif 6959 View Post
No doubts about the engineering. The only feeling i got when the 200 came out is that Bajaj would again have the same platform and keep introducing "newer" models, similarly what they did with Pulsar 150-180-200-220 or Discover-135-100 etc. And seeing the specs of the 390 again with the same chassis, brakes, electricals, tyres etc. I think that KTM would have definitely brought out a different package.
Asif, the decision is not Bajaj's alone. KTM is very much the braintrust behind the motor and the rolling chassis.

And its not that what we are buying here is only for us Indians.

The 125 is sold only abroad.

The 200 was launched abroad first and is being sold in highly competitive European markets in the same trim as what we get here - at a much higher price needless to add.

The 390 in addition will in all likelihood even make it to American shores.

So whether its Indian or Austrian is not really an issue.

All over the world these bikes are branded as KTMs. Not one place will you see Bajaj written anywhere.

Brands like KTM, regardless of the money strings attached, and from where, do not dilute their brand.

So if they sell something as KTM anywhere in the world, be it a bike or a hand guard, they are the final stakeholders for the quality of that product.

With 200 world championships won all over the world, I do not think they would hand over the "KTM Racing" badge to any product lightly.

Have you seen a Duke 690 in the flesh? Its not a whole lot bigger than the 200.

Do you think the CBR500 will be bigger than the CBR250?

The 200 motor is best harnessed to a street fighter setup. That does not stop any of us from using it for touring or on the track or for rallying.

The 390 is a serious motor, even by the standards of the West. Thus they have decided to give it 3 different variants.

That's differentiation right there.

Last edited by ebonho : 14th December 2012 at 11:14.
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Old 14th December 2012, 16:47   #198
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

@ebonho : I understand and agree with you on what you are saying. Its true of most manufacturers to base their future models on a common or at least a similar platform.But then again its not commodity am buying and want that differentiation.

These days to differentiate a Pulsar150 and a Pulsar 180 one has to really look hard to make out the difference. But as a customer who would be paying say 50k to 75k more for a better product don't you want something more than just a badge that would say 390.Things should and will change and thats only a matter of time.
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Old 14th December 2012, 17:11   #199
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

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Originally Posted by Asif 6959 View Post
@ebonho : I understand and agree with you on what you are saying. Its true of most manufacturers to base their future models on a common or at least a similar platform.But then again its not commodity am buying and want that differentiation.

These days to differentiate a Pulsar150 and a Pulsar 180 one has to really look hard to make out the difference. But as a customer who would be paying say 50k to 75k more for a better product don't you want something more than just a badge that would say 390.Things should and will change and thats only a matter of time.
Those who can afford a KTM (Duke or whatever) will not buy a Pulsar. No matter howsoever good the Pulsar might be. No Pulsar. I won't. Even if a fully faired Pulsar 390 comes at almost the same price as KTM Duke 200.

When you buy a KTM, you're buying the driving experience. So, for KTM fans (or Ducati, Yamaha et al fans), the basic experience need to be the same. That is more important that the component looks.

BTW,

1. I think the KTM Duke 200 (and thus 390) looks great if a little too small.
2. The expected price is simply great for the product that we will get.
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Old 14th December 2012, 18:27   #200
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

There is no getting around the fact that for a 6 foot guy upward of 90 kilos (demographic of most Bulleteers LOL) the Duke IS a bit small.

Not so much the part in front of you as the part behind you.

But that said, a huge part of the crazy handling of the bike is due in large part to those proportions.

So unless there is something with the same performance and feel and equipment level and looks and finish and brand value and price available, there will always be wishlists, but the guys who put the money down will be very clear about what they want and are getting.

Last edited by ebonho : 14th December 2012 at 18:49.
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Old 14th December 2012, 21:02   #201
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

Guys - Do check this interview by KTM CEO about their JV with Bajaj and the upcoming KTM launches. - http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/spe..._790091-0.html

As per the CEO's words the next release will be

(1) KTM 390 - A fully faired version
(2) KTM 390 - Tour Purpose version

Exciting times ahead
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Old 18th December 2012, 12:37   #202
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

So .. i was all set to buy the 390 Duke. And now you'll tell me there's the possibility of a fully faired RC4 ?? Is this even a remote possibility ??
Anyone with some reliable 'inside' info ?? Is it really coming ??
I'm getting verrryyyy excited now !!
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Old 18th December 2012, 13:31   #203
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

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Originally Posted by revvhed View Post
So .. i was all set to buy the 390 Duke. And now you'll tell me there's the possibility of a fully faired RC4 ?? Is this even a remote possibility ??
Anyone with some reliable 'inside' info ?? Is it really coming ??
I'm getting verrryyyy excited now !!
Nobody still knows which one is coming first

Though it is confirmed that eventually both will come along. Despite the interview given by SP, I and a few others think that the D390 may still be first in line. That will be followed by a fully faired version.

Now about the RC4? When you say this, I assume that you're pointing out to a contracted look-alike version of RC8 for the 390R (sports)? That may or may not be true. This bike will be based on the Moto3 sportsbike. How it will eventually look, is anybody's guess.

So, basically, we , like you, are waiting for concrete announcements (I prefer to hear it from Rajiv Bajaj since he is straight talking and business savvy. Also, gives clear idea about product positioning in the market)

Last edited by Abhi_Automobile : 18th December 2012 at 13:33.
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Old 18th December 2012, 13:44   #204
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by revvhed View Post
So .. i was all set to buy the 390 Duke. And now you'll tell me there's the possibility of a fully faired RC4 ?? Is this even a remote possibility ??
Anyone with some reliable 'inside' info ?? Is it really coming ??
I'm getting verrryyyy excited now !!
the faired version will be at least six months after the naked 390. one silly lost in translation article on overdrive.in has people thinking the faired/ rc4 will be the first. the first and only tangible one will be the naked duke 390. rest is all rumor and speculation.
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Old 21st December 2012, 04:06   #205
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

While we wait for the next set of announcements (which could be a while down the line), how many of you think that the KTM 390 looks best in its raw and most naked, stock form? How many of you think that there is no match for a souped up KTM?

For a sample, they had a souped up version at the Milna show: http://blog.derestricted.com/motorcy...90-eicma-2012/

Beginning to wonder how should my 390 look! Souped up or stock. Of course, they have to launch the bike first
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Old 21st December 2012, 10:37   #206
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

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Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile View Post
While we wait for the next set of announcements (which could be a while down the line), how many of you think that the KTM 390 looks best in its raw and most naked, stock form? How many of you think that there is no match for a souped up KTM?

For a sample, they had a souped up version at the Milna show: http://blog.derestricted.com/motorcy...90-eicma-2012/

Beginning to wonder how should my 390 look! Souped up or stock. Of course, they have to launch the bike first
LOL when bikers are not on the road, they are day dreaming about their dream "perfect" hybrid custom!

For my dream 390, mine would be the following, based on the Duke 200 which I have been riding for close to 10 months now:

1) Longer enduro-grade fork travel with more damping.

2) Better dust/mud/splash protection for fork lowers and boots/seals. A better designed front mudguard with more enveloping side wrap-around fork extensions.

3) Ditch the current fiber belly pan/fairing - replace with a proper thich gauge alu perforated bash plate as a sump guard.

4) 19" front and 17" rear alloy rim "tubeless" spoked wheels, with options for dual purpose tyres.

5) Adjustable front windshield.

6) More powerful headlight. Options to mount auxiliary running lights or fog lights.

7) Minimum 16 L (ideal would be 18) fuel tank.

8) Overall slightly longer - more front-rear slide room for rider seat, and a proper pillion seat.

9) At least 4 mounting lugs to anchor saddle bag straps and/or bungee hooks.

10) A monoshock mudflap that actually works and directs spray backward instead of upward, and a better designed hugger as well as rear fender that do not spray the entire rear of the bike (including the TOP of the pillion seat) as well as pilion or even back of rider with mud - and do not touch each other at regular intervals.

Simple? Possible?

Fingers crossed!
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Old 21st December 2012, 11:05   #207
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

Hahaha. You just listed out the features of the enduro touring bikes like the GS and the KTM Adventure. Sure it is possible but would a company risk cannibalizing its own top of the range bikes. Also when you factor in all those features, the price automatically goes up. The engine is not exactly a huge cost impact then.
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Old 21st December 2012, 11:11   #208
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

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Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
Hahaha. You just listed out the features of the enduro touring bikes like the GS and the KTM Adventure. Sure it is possible but would a company risk cannibalizing its own top of the range bikes. Also when you factor in all those features, the price automatically goes up. The engine is not exactly a huge cost impact then.
I know bro. I was detailing a mythical KTM 390 Adventure.

As I said, when bikers are not on (or off) the road, they daydream. LOL

Purely as a theoretical exercise, lets wake up, be more practical/stop dreaming, and try and see what can be possible for Bajaj (on a budget) or worked around ourselves:

1) Longer enduro-grade fork travel with more damping.

A: Most the raid guys have managed longer/stiffer springs and inner tubes. Indian, local fabricated. I can live with those, if Bajaj cannot/will not do it cheaper.

2) Better dust/mud/splash protection for fork lowers and boots/seals. A better designed front mudguard with more enveloping side wrap-around fork extensions.

A: I have seen flexible "socks" for the fork lowers that protect the boots and inner seals in very dusty/muddy conditions. Look really ugly though. I have suggested the wraparound mudguard design of the old original Fieros to the KTM guys. Lets see.


3) Ditch the current fiber belly pan/fairing - replace with a proper thich gauge alu perforated bash plate as a sump guard.

A: Easily done locally, and all the Raid guys have already done so. Am sure Bajaj could do it better, and cheaper though.


4) 19" front and 17" rear alloy rim "tubeless" spoked wheels, with options for dual purpose tyres.

A: Again, most Raid guys have used the workaround of the Impulse front wheel and tyre (19") with adaptor plate, spacer, etc. for the front. For the rear all have kept the alloys with just tyre change - not ideal. Proper spoked wheels are only possible on a budget from Bajaj. Anything else we do will be jugaad.

5) Adjustable front windshield.

A: Possible locally fabricated. Something that is frankly at the bottom of my priority list and which I can most easily live without, having ridden nakeds all my life. Again, easily done by Bajaj on a budget.

6) More powerful headlight. Options to mount auxiliary running lights or fog lights.

A: I would really like this. There is no such thing as too much light for a biker. I would not mess with the electricals aftermarket myself for this.

7) Minimum 16 L (ideal would be 18) fuel tank.

A: Only possible through Bajaj/KTM. The after market tanks cost 17-20K (Acerbis, etc.) and even with them a lot of mods will be needed for fuel pump, guage, plumbing, ECU fitment, seat mods, etc. Almost impossible for the average Joe biker after market here in India. But something sorely needed and probably towards the top on my priority list.

8) Overall slightly longer - more front-rear slide room for rider seat, and a proper pillion seat.

A: Needs massive work, to be done right (and not just cut and weld extensions into the top frame). Only possible at Bajaj/KTM level. Something I can live without, live around.

9) At least 4 mounting lugs to anchor saddle bag straps and/or bungee hooks.

A: So easily done by Bajaj, I would be surprised if they did not do it. Am surprised why they have not already done it even for the 200s. I mean, there is nowhere you can tie or hook anything. And the 500 buck a pop indicators are always a constrint to positioning and space.

10) A monoshock mudflap that actually works and directs spray backward instead of upward, and a better designed hugger as well as rear fender that do not spray the entire rear of the bike (including the TOP of the pillion seat) as well as pilion or even back of rider with mud - and do not touch each other at regular intervals.

A: Again somethng I have discussed at length with the KTM guys (with diagrams etc.). Lets see. There are obvious now well documented issues in the current setup. I would frankly just chuck the current hugger.

Last edited by ebonho : 21st December 2012 at 11:35.
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Old 21st December 2012, 14:29   #209
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

Doc,
Do tell them(bajaj/ktm) to bring the moto3 avatar 390 soon. I WANT me one of those.
Since we are dreaming here, I hope the enduro version of the 390 also makes it. Yeah it won't have a huge tank range etc.. but that's OK really for someone like me. I DO NOT mind stopping every once in a while to fuel up if it gives me that kind of Jollies!
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Old 21st December 2012, 17:47   #210
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

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Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
Doc,
Do tell them(bajaj/ktm) to bring the moto3 avatar 390 soon. I WANT me one of those.
Since we are dreaming here, I hope the enduro version of the 390 also makes it. Yeah it won't have a huge tank range etc.. but that's OK really for someone like me. I DO NOT mind stopping every once in a while to fuel up if it gives me that kind of Jollies!
Bro, if I had even 1% chance of influencing the product design and launch decision of a behemoth like Bajaj, I would not be wasting my time and clout advocating death by plastic over a glorious naked enduro - seeing as one would come at the expense of the other (pushing the "loser" back by at least 6 months if not permanently - the Duke variant being a given) !

But knowing Bajaj - their bean counters would be weighing the beans between the Bullet/adventure touring brigade versus the Racer Puppies.

No prizes for guessing which side would win.
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