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Old 9th April 2013, 12:36   #361
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

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Originally Posted by jhonmathews View Post
2. That confidence would be inspired more by abs right? Knowing that you aren't going to skid allows you to apply the breaks as hard as possible.
No issues mate, I do hope you find your right bike. Regarding ABS you are right regarding no wheel lock hence you are able to brake with confidence. However on dusty, slippery, wet roads ABS increases breaking distance over normal brakes, due to abs computer detecting wheelspin/slip etc
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Old 9th April 2013, 12:59   #362
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

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Originally Posted by lobojames9 View Post
The ABS on CBR 250R makes a considerable difference. To use your analogy, I would say it is safer as in 'using a helmet is safer'. Imagine, a graveled road and a sudden braking situations, while the standard will most probably lock it's brakes and will end up in you losing control, on the ABS the anti-lock system will kick in and bring you to safe halt without any issues. To me, that's as good as having a good helmet.

PS: Yet, I have the standard as I had already outstretched my budget while buying the bike. The brakes on the standard are ok, but definitely not confidence inspiring. It takes some getting used to, to understand exactly how much pressure you need to put to stop safely without locking the brakes.
I would not trust a bike with ABS . Can not think of going down lamayuru or changla with a bike with ABS .It scary like hell .
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Old 9th April 2013, 13:33   #363
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

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Originally Posted by black12rr View Post
Can not think of going down lamayuru or changla with a bike with ABS .It scary like hell.
Ok, so from what I've read here, ABS helps when you're on tarmac, but not so much when the road is wet or dusty? And it's no help at all on broken roads?

Have I understood that correctly?
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Old 9th April 2013, 13:49   #364
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

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Originally Posted by lobojames9 View Post
Imagine, a graveled road and a sudden braking situations, while the standard will most probably lock it's brakes and will end up in you losing control, on the ABS the anti-lock system will kick in and bring you to safe halt without any issues.
I did not know ABS would work on bajri. I thought it was a pure tarmac tool. Are you sure about this?

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Cbr250r seems to be brilliant as a tourer
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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
If you are speaking of Mumbai-Bangalore legs then yes, a faired bike is far far better than a naked one, especially at100+ speeds where in wind resistance pays a big part in rider fatigue.
Depends on what you want from the bike really. Any bike can be made to do anything. Its us that give labels.

A naked will always be more versatile than a faired bike.

On a naked I can choose what speed to ride at depending on my comfort level.

On a faired bike, I cannot choose what terrain to ride on should I need to get somewhere and reach the destination with all plastics still attached to the bike.

And people have been riding 100+ mph nakeds for more than a century and counting now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhonmathews View Post
1. Won't it? I don't have a very good idea about it personally but people over on the CBR thread keep saying 'the bike is heavy so won't sway at speeds'. So, I thought I'd ask.
I have always ridden nakeds bro, heavy as well as light. I always ride pretty fast. I have never swayed or been pushed into another lane by wind or any other force of nature. That said, if there are strong crosswinds, the chances are greater of a faired bike acting like a sail in the wind side on than a naked.

Coming to the small Duke 200, it is rock solid and stable at any speed you take her too. Stuck to the ground. Very confidence inspiring handling and braking. Superb chassis.

Quote:
1&3 Being a college kid myself sir, I was interested in a tourer and settled with the CBR but now this one's got my attention. Mom won't approve though because(guess what?) the seat isn't good for a pillion. Personally, I understand that fact that such a bike isn't bought for a pillion to be taken around for the city but, oh well.

2. Didn't really look at it that way and it's because of the probably price that I think this bike would be a BIG hit.

Worthy contender as a tourer over the CBR? Considering it might have fuel issues and it isn't advised to fuel up from pump beside the highways?
If you plan on a lot of pillion riding, the Duke is not the ideal bike. No second thought on that.

On the fuel, I have filled regular fuel everywhere I go. I guess all fuel in India now is 91 octane rated.

I'll leave the choice to you bro.

The CBR is a 26 bhp bike. The Duke 200 is a 25 bhp bike. The Duke 390 is a 44 bhp bike.

Cost of the first 2 you already know.

Pick the one that appeals to you the most.

Faired and naked is all in the head. A bike is bought from the heart.

Last edited by ebonho : 9th April 2013 at 13:52.
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Old 9th April 2013, 13:50   #365
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

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Originally Posted by am1m View Post
Ok, so from what I've read here, ABS helps when you're on tarmac, but not so much when the road is wet or dusty? And it's no help at all on broken roads?
Nope, the ABS tech will work when the roads are either wet or dusty too. You should actually look up some videos on youtube.com if possible to see the MASSIVE difference that ABS makes in wet conditions. Ofcourse, these tests are done in a controlled environment with the proper safety rigs et.all, but you actually get to see the comparative difference of having ABS tech on a bike.

It's a tried & tested technology, the results & benefits are life saving. Although, I recently saw our driver panic when he had to brake hard & the ABS kicked in, bugger did not expect the shudder & let go of the brake for a mili second thinking there was something wrong with the car. Thankfully the object he was trying to avoid was inanimate (a rock right in the middle of the road).

Last edited by mb_jg : 9th April 2013 at 13:54.
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Old 9th April 2013, 13:58   #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by am1m View Post

Ok, so from what I've read here, ABS helps when you're on tarmac, but not so much when the road is wet or dusty? And it's no help at all on broken roads?

Have I understood that correctly?
ABS was designed for wet, dusty and broken road conditions where your tyres might get locked due to lack of friction between the tyre and road surface. It brakes in the shortest time possible without locking the wheels.

I'm sure some people can brake faster by locking the wheels, but for the unfortunate others- they may not be still upright when done!

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 9th April 2013 at 14:00.
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Old 9th April 2013, 14:12   #367
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg



Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
I'm sure some people can brake faster by locking the wheels, but for the unfortunate others- they may not be still upright when done!
Overdrive had tested the ABS and its pluses on this video. This should help us in understanding better from a end user perspective on how the ABS works in a 2-wheeler.

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Old 9th April 2013, 14:13   #368
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

This excellent article on Wikipedia should clear most of the ABS related doubts/queries. It also mentions interesting research studies on how benefits of ABS are compensated by additional reckless driving of drivers.

And, now we can get back to Duke 390 here :-)
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Old 9th April 2013, 14:20   #369
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

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Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
This excellent article on Wikipedia should clear most of the ABS related doubts/queries. And, now we can get back to Duke 390 here :-)
Thanks, I did check a lot of stuff online on ABS before posting, including the Team BHP thread on ABS. The most useful one I found was - http://forum.motorcycle-usa.com/defa...?f=22&m=314718.

But the reason I posted anyway was because all those threads drew a lot of information from the 'ABS on cars' angle, but I'm guessing ABS on bikes would be a whole different thing. Also I wanted to get some 'real-world' or rather 'real-Indian-road' user experiences from bikers who have used ABS-equipped bikes on our roads.

In a way, this is about the 390, as in all probability it's going to be the first ABS equipped bike I'm going to own! But yeah, see your point, it's probably OT.

Thanks for all the ABS replies guys!
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Old 9th April 2013, 14:24   #370
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

So what is the consensus guys? Go on to bajri and jam the brakes bindass?
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Old 9th April 2013, 14:34   #371
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
So what is the consensus guys? Go on to bajri and jam the brakes bindass?
And end up testing the riding gear as well
After riding a CBR 250 ABS,and comparing it with my 1.5L kms of riding experience,i didn't really felt the need for it.People have been riding around without ABS on 150+Bhp machines since ages without any issues.
Why this sudden up surge about not having ABS?
Its always a good to have feature,but its not an absolute necessity on two wheels,all you need is a nut with a sane mind on the saddle behind the handlebars.
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Old 9th April 2013, 14:44   #372
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

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Originally Posted by akshay4587 View Post
And end up testing the riding gear as well
Never owned or ridden an ABS bike so just checking.
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Old 9th April 2013, 17:22   #373
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

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Originally Posted by am1m View Post
Ok, so from what I've read here, ABS helps when you're on tarmac, but not so much when the road is wet or dusty? And it's no help at all on broken roads?

Have I understood that correctly?
OT: let me give you an example. Recently (about 3 days back) I was doing about 100 kmph on the NH-8 and it was about 30 mins into the night, and I had my low beam headlight on, car being a Safari 2.2. Now suddenly out of nowhere two brown cows jump the central median and wander into my side of the road. Since I was on low beam maybe I saw/spotted them when we were about 100 meters (300 odd feet) and doing 100 kmph.
Instinctively I braked and also turned left into the left lane to avoid hitting the cows. We all know what happens when big/tall SUVs with high gc makes sudden lane change maneuvers with full braking. Its only because of ABS that I was able to brake, steer, maintain full control and avoid the poor animals.
I also observed that the road surface was muddy/dusty because of heavy dumpers moving with loads of dirt. So the ideal example of dusty roads with ABS helping avoid a bad accident. Doing the same with a Safari/Scorpio without ABS might see this post in the accidents thread.
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Old 9th April 2013, 17:55   #374
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

I think the dynamics of ABS are very different in a bike versus a car.

From what I understand, ABS is mainly useful in sudden high speed panic braking conditions on tarmac and in a straight line.

In any other condition or scenario, and especially when leaned over, its the hand or the foot that is the main modulator and the difference between going down and staying up.

Last edited by ebonho : 9th April 2013 at 18:02.
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Old 9th April 2013, 20:55   #375
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Default re: KTM Duke 390 - 375cc, 45 PS, 150 kg

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Originally Posted by am1m View Post
Hey, I have the same question, 'using a helmet is safer' (always, in all situations).
I'd go so far as to say that it's a permanent safety feature. Although you can turn it on and off on the Apache, I think that's an absolute nightmare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lobojames9 View Post
The ABS on CBR 250R The brakes on the standard are ok, but definitely not confidence inspiring. It takes some getting used to, to understand exactly how much pressure you need to put to stop safely without locking the brakes.
So that's what people mean by 'confidence inspiring'

Quote:
Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
No issues mate, I do hope you find your right bike. Regarding ABS you are right regarding no wheel lock hence you are able to brake with confidence. However on dusty, slippery, wet roads ABS increases breaking distance over normal brakes, due to abs computer detecting wheelspin/slip etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by am1m View Post
Ok, so from what I've read here, ABS helps when you're on tarmac, but not so much when the road is wet or dusty? And it's no help at all on broken roads?

Have I understood that correctly?
AFAIK, Increase in stopping distance is always due to the brakes letting go of the tire just when the brakes sense a lock up of the tires or if the bike starts to drift/skid(speed of bike>revolutions the tire makes per minute). Since wet roads, dusty of even bajri filled roads tend to make your wheels lock up/make you skid more often than not, the distance ultimately increases.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post

1. A naked will always be more versatile than a faired bike.I have always ridden nakeds bro, heavy as well as light. I always ride pretty fast. I have never swayed or been pushed into another lane by wind or any other force of nature. That said, if there are strong crosswinds, the chances are greater of a faired bike acting like a sail in the wind side on than a naked.


2. On a naked I can choose what speed to ride at depending on my comfort level.

3. On a faired bike, I cannot choose what terrain to ride on should I need to get somewhere and reach the destination with all plastics still attached to the bike.

4. If you plan on a lot of pillion riding, the Duke is not the ideal bike. No second thought on that.

5. I'll leave the choice to you bro.
The CBR is a 26 bhp bike. The Duke 200 is a 25 bhp bike. The Duke 390 is a 44 bhp bike.
Cost of the first 2 you already know.


6. A bike is bought from the heart.
1. Makes sense sir. As of now I use a CBF stunner for all my road trip purposes and at 100 it does fall prey to the cross wind. That's why I asked.

Though now, I am pretty confused as to how the wind dynamics actually work. some say the Fairing cuts through the air as well.

2. Agreed, riding position is ANYDAY more comfortable than any other bike.

3. I did hear of a few people who ended up with scratches on their lower side of the fairing on their CBR while riding to leh.

4. No pillions any more. No offence to anyone but such bikes don't go with a pillion IMHO

5. It all depends on the cost of the new duke and whether or not it has the ABS built in or not. All hell would break loose tomorrow I suppose. But thanks for your help anyway sir.
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