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Old 25th October 2012, 13:35   #1
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Default Bajaj bringing back 2-stroke bikes?

Yes guys you heard it here first; I am highly convinced that an all new 100cc 2 stroke is about to be launched.

Bajaj has recently announced that they are going to launch the most expensive and technologically advanced 100cc motorcycle in India. A brave move indeed to go upmarket with 100cc when there are plenty of 125+cc options available at very competitive prices.

If this premium 100cc has to work it needs to deliver two things, high mileage as well as more power. Now 4 stroke 100s have almost hit the mileage ceiling and the only way you can do more km/ltr is to fit them with wind sails!!

As far as power is concerned going for a 4 valve, liquid cooled high revving engine will deliver 10-12 ps but nowhere near the 60+ km/ltr benchmark. It will also make it a lot more expensive meaning why not just buy a 125 or 150.

Also Bajaj found it a challenge to incorporate their 200ns head with 4 valves and 3 sparkies, so I guess its technically near impossible for them to pull of such a stunt with a head half its size. SO what next for the hi tech 100cc?!

Enter 2 stroke direct injection technology

Bajaj have been using direct injection 2 strokes in their humble 3 wheelers for more than 5 years. They know this technology well and can make it work.

The GDi (Gasoline direct injection) for the autorickshaw is a Synerject (joint venture between Orbital Corporation of Australia and Siemens VDO) system, which has now come into India with Chennai-based UCAL as the licensed supplier. Rumors have it that an agreement has been finalized with Bosch for a GDI system in Bajaj bikes.

If once sees the spec of the 145cc 2 stroke auto engine it is very very impressive for a utilitarian vehicle.

It produces 9.2ps @ 5000rpm and 14.91nm torque @ 3500rpm. The two main points are the really low rpm figures (2 strokes can really rev a lot lot higher...hence even more power) and the really impressive torque figures, the Pulsar 180dtsi makes 14.22nm torque at almost twice the rpm. So imagine the power figures for a high revving 100cc 2 stroke!!
It also has a separate 2t oil tank so no more mixing before pouring.

Compared to the older RE 2 stroke engine this GDi unit gives 33% higher fuel efficiency and pollutes a lot less, with 50% lower carbon monoxide and 25% lower hydrocarbons/nitrous oxides than the older two-stroke.

Now more than my mere speculation Bajaj themselves did announce this project way back in 2007 soon after launching GDi tech in 3 wheelers. I have stated all my sources below.

All 2 stroke lovers know their advantage, lower maintenance, compact light engines, better torque, all this now combined with better FE and lower emission norms is an incredible recipe.

Now come Jan'13 if Bajaj dissapoints by bringing out a 4 stroke 100cc with six and a half spark plugs and quashes my speculations then I promise to lay off Tbhp for 2 days.

I am quiet confident they wont.

sources:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/16940486.cms
http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report...s-well_1138479
http://articles.economictimes.indiat...emission-norms

Last edited by shortbread : 25th October 2012 at 13:39.
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Old 25th October 2012, 13:44   #2
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Default re: Bajaj bringing back 2-stroke bikes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
Now come Jan'13 if Bajaj dissapoints by bringing out a 4 stroke 100cc with six and a half spark plugs and quashes my speculations then I promise to lay off Tbhp for 2 days.

I am quiet confident they wont.
Now, thats called confidence. Laying off 2 days off TBHP is too much at stake. I will pray for you.

I remember they recalled all their last batch of 2 stroke bikes (purple and black in colour and very similar to 2nd gen caliber) in 99 or 2000 after implementation of some new pollution norms.
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Old 25th October 2012, 13:49   #3
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Default re: Bajaj bringing back 2-stroke bikes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
I remember they recalled all their last batch of 2 stroke bikes (purple and black in colour and very similar to 2nd gen caliber)
I guess it was called the Prowler, saw it in OD mags and awaited with great anticipation. alas.
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Old 25th October 2012, 13:55   #4
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Default re: Bajaj bringing back 2-stroke bikes?

TVS Three wheelers are powered with 2-strokers. So Bajaj could give a try for the reentry of the 2 stroke engines. btb, is there any mandatory restriction regarding usage of 2 stroke engines in two wheelers. I remember reading in these lines somewhere, during the 2-stroke phase out period by two wheeler manufacturers.
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Old 25th October 2012, 13:55   #5
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Default re: Bajaj bringing back 2-stroke bikes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrage View Post
I guess it was called the Prowler, saw it in OD mags and awaited with great anticipation. alas.
Bang on!. I went to Bagga Link Showroom with my friend that time and instantly decided to get the bike but the sales guy told us that these bikes will be returning to factory and will come back after modification. They never came back though and my friend later bought a caliber.
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Old 25th October 2012, 13:55   #6
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Default re: Bajaj bringing back 2-stroke bikes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
Yes guys you heard it here first; I am highly convinced that an all new 100cc 2 stroke is about to be launchedI am quiet confident they wont
I thought someone bumped up a 1st 50 thread in Tbhp back from 2003-2004!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
I remember they recalled all their last batch of 2 stroke bikes (purple and black in colour and very similar to 2nd gen caliber) in 99 or 2000 after implementation of some new pollution norms.
Prowler with a KB125 engine and a disc brake, I loved it!! sadly it bombed!

Copyright - respective owners (top biking forum in India)
http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/members/...er-rr-125.html

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Last edited by svsantosh : 25th October 2012 at 13:57.
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Old 25th October 2012, 17:34   #7
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Default re: Bajaj bringing back 2-stroke bikes?

Keeping in line with the Post, although not 100% relevant to the topic, here is an exert about Rajiv Bajaj and how he revived the Bajaj brand from almost the brink of failure.

http://articles.economictimes.indiat...torcycle-brand

Quote:
The mood was grim in the second floor meeting room of Bajaj Auto office at Akurdi, near Pune. It was early 2008, and Rajiv Bajaj and his A-team, consisting of Pradeep Shrivastava, Joseph Ibrahim, Ravi Kumar, Kevin D'Sa, among others, were huddled around the centre table listening intently to an internal presentation.
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Old 25th October 2012, 18:49   #8
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Default Re: Bajaj bringing back 2-stroke bikes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
Enter 2 stroke direct injection technology

Bajaj have been using direct injection 2 strokes in their humble 3 wheelers for more than 5 years. They know this technology well and can make it work.

...

Compared to the older RE 2 stroke engine this GDi unit gives 33% higher fuel efficiency and pollutes a lot less, with 50% lower carbon monoxide and 25% lower hydrocarbons/nitrous oxides than the older two-stroke.
Thanks for a very informative post.

I am curious:

If they can make GDI work, why not mate it with 4-stroke engines? Why loose the emission advantage of the 4-strokers?

How does the 2 stroke GDI engine comapre with a 4-stroke indirect injection engine of similar capacity - in terms of FE, emission and torque?

Why would a manufacture spend time and money on the 2-stroke technology? Only for high-revving fun?

Cheers!
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Old 25th October 2012, 21:17   #9
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very passionate post shortbread. the build up is amazing. very taut write up. but behind the veneer, its all speculation and wishful thinking. thanks though for the hope.
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Old 25th October 2012, 23:16   #10
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Default Re: Bajaj bringing back 2-stroke bikes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
If they can make GDI work, why not mate it with 4-stroke engines? Why loose the emission advantage of the 4-strokers?
How does the 2 stroke GDI engine comapre with a 4-stroke indirect injection engine of similar capacity - in terms of FE, emission and torque?
Why would a manufacture spend time and money on the 2-stroke technology? Only for high-revving fun?
The answer is here. In a 4 stroke petrol cycle there is a term called valve overlap. Which means that the inlet & exhaust valves are open simultaneously. Hence there is a chance for a small fraction of fuel-air mixture to escape through the exhaust before its closure. A GDI can avoid such a scenario. Since the gases escaping is only a very small fraction, a GDI conversion would bring in only a marginal advantage at a higher cost (while already meeting the emission norms with a carburettor).

In the 2 stroke cycle the complete closure of exhaust port is almost half way along the travel of the piston. The muffler is designed such that there is enough back pressure created from the resonating wave to retain the cherge mixture inside. Still the chances of charge escaping is many folds as compared to what escapes in a 4 stroke cycle. The GDI will be programmed to inject fuel only after the closure of exhaust port. This adds some emissions advantage as well. Hope this clarifies your doubt.
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Old 26th October 2012, 17:23   #11
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Default Re: Bajaj bringing back 2-stroke bikes?

If I am not wrong they had displayed Sonic concept at an auto expo. It also sported the GDI.

If you do a little surfing online about Orbital it would be clear thet their tech has been used successfully on the Aprilia Rs250.

It is wierd why companies are shying away from 2strokes inspite of non-polluiting tech being available.

After stating all the above points I still doubt that Bajaj will do it, but given their attitude and KTMs affinity towards 2-strokers,

if at all anyone is going to bring 2 strokers in India, I think there's a fair chance that Bajaj would be the ones.

Last edited by Slick : 26th October 2012 at 17:24. Reason: spelling
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Old 26th October 2012, 19:27   #12
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Default Re: Bajaj bringing back 2-stroke bikes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
Now come Jan'13 if Bajaj dissapoints by bringing out a 4 stroke 100cc with six and a half spark plugs and quashes my speculations then I promise to lay off Tbhp for 2 days.


I wish Bajaj don't put you in such situation.

Its actually nice to see Bajaj taking such radical steps in Indian biking scene. IMO, Bajaj is the real game changer in the >150 CC Category. Now, a 100CC 2S with 14.91nm @ 3500rpm. This will be the ultimate city bike. And if they are able to achieve the orgasmic Yamahaish 2S exhaust note or at least close to it, the bike will be a sure shot winner.

Am I dreaming too much?!?!
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Old 1st November 2012, 23:13   #13
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Default Re: Bajaj bringing back 2-stroke bikes?

The best thing to happen to bike industry i India will be the reintroduction of the mighty 2 strokes like Shogun and RX 100. Hope it will happen
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