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Old 28th April 2015, 09:18   #46
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Default Re: My ThunderBird 500 : Ownership review with pictures

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Originally Posted by shan2129 View Post
Hey Guys,

Been a long time since I updated this thread. But this is a special time. I am leaving for Leh Ladakh, pangong, sach pass, from Dehradun on 12th June 2015. My bike is now 21000 kms old & still looks a beauty

Had a question. If somebody can answer it.

Q. Stock silencer ( muffler ) or RE original off road silencer for TB ? I already have the latter one installed.

Q. Injector cleaning required ?

Q. Stock Air filter or K&N ?
1- The offroader should be good as you will not scrap it on rough roads.
2-Good brands like STP,ambro or Iftex system G etc should work fine. Just make sure you add the right quantity.
3-Stock filter is always better as you will be riding in extremely dusty conditions.
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Old 28th April 2015, 10:30   #47
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Default Re: My ThunderBird 500 : Ownership review with pictures

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Originally Posted by rakesh_r View Post
1- The offroader should be good as you will not scrap it on rough roads.
2-Good brands like STP,ambro or Iftex system G etc should work fine. Just make sure you add the right quantity.
3-Stock filter is always better as you will be riding in extremely dusty conditions.
1. I am using the Bosch Platinum iridium ( 4 pins ) spark plug & I get the perfect mixture on a bit leaner side. Now my question is that, while using an offroad muffler, and on altitude as high as 18000 + feet, my mixture will get a bit rich right ? less oxygen ? so is it a good idea to continue using this spark plug or use the stock one that came with.

2. Injector, should I get it cleaned by injector cleaner ( as in equipment ) ( requires opening of the injector ) or just add the additive in petrol tank ?
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Old 28th April 2015, 10:34   #48
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Default Re: My ThunderBird 500 : Ownership review with pictures

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Originally Posted by shan2129 View Post
Hey Guys,

I am leaving for Leh Ladakh, pangong, sach pass, from Dehradun on 12th June 2015. My bike is now 21000 kms old & still looks a beauty

Had a question. If somebody can answer it.

Q. Stock silencer ( muffler ) or RE original off road silencer for TB ? I already have the latter one installed.

Q. Injector cleaning required ?

Q. Stock Air filter or K&N ?
Hey buddy, thanks for your very fascinating ownership log. FWIW, I was born in D'Dun. Haven't visited in a long while though. Am a happy owner of a Classic500 since 2011 and have done my fair share of long trips and performance improvements on it. Leh trip has not materialised yet for one reason or the other and I envy you.

My $0.02 on your trip:

1. First principle: never make any major additions to a running bike before important trips.
2. Injector cleaning, new spark plugs, fresh engine oil, topping up of brake fluid, inspection of chain, wheel spokes & hub, reviewing tyres and tubes, adding Slime to the tubes, brake pads, brake, clutch and accelerator cables, stocking up on spare fuses and bulbs and general tightening up of all nuts and bolts and a through inspection of all electricals is considered a good practise for your circumstances.
3. Adding a K&N and a free flow exhaust will only be significant if you modify the accompanying fuelling parameters in the ECU. Otherwise it's just noise and as AirozonaJim observed, potential issue of letting in more dust particles through the K&N.

Wish you the best, have an awesome trip and don't forget to share pics!
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Old 28th April 2015, 11:09   #49
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Default Re: My ThunderBird 500 : Ownership review with pictures

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Originally Posted by shan2129 View Post
1. I am using the Bosch Platinum iridium ( 4 pins ) spark plug & I get the perfect mixture on a bit leaner side. Now my question is that, while using an offroad muffler, and on altitude as high as 18000 + feet, my mixture will get a bit rich right ? less oxygen ? so is it a good idea to continue using this spark plug or use the stock one that came with.

2. Injector, should I get it cleaned by injector cleaner ( as in equipment ) ( requires opening of the injector ) or just add the additive in petrol tank ?
As per my experience stock settings always work the best. I would suggest switch back to stock silencer if you are very much in two minds. The stock silencer is the best on high altitudes,the very reason is the efi is open loop.People who own the classic series have reported loss of power with offroader silencers at high altitude,the power got restored as soon as they switched back to stock.
About the injectors,don't fiddle with them if they are working well.The injector cleaner is quite sufficient.
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Old 3rd May 2015, 22:36   #50
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Default Re: My ThunderBird 500 : Ownership review with pictures

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I'm not sure what the silencer question is but if your happy with your off road silencer, just grin and ride.
Stock silencer = more back pressure, off road silencer - less back pressure. My question was intended for calculating changes in oxygen on higher altitudes, & how can backpressure affect the overall performance of the bike.

I know that higher altitudes will have lower oxygen and hence the mixture will go lean, but I already have a solution for that. I am very curious about back pressure ( low or high ) ( which is better on high altitudes ) & how will it affect the performance.

Quote:
The only way to clean the fuel injector is to add a good brand of fuel injector cleaner to the gasoline and ride.
Adding the right amount isn't rocket science so you don't have to do any real accurate measuring. Just come close to the right amount and you'll be fine.
Got it. Will do that.


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Ah. The old air cleaner question.
Stock filter it is. Won't change that.

Thanks a ton Jim!!

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Originally Posted by rakesh_r View Post
As per my experience stock settings always work the best. I would suggest switch back to stock silencer if you are very much in two minds. The stock silencer is the best on high altitudes,the very reason is the efi is open loop.People who own the classic series have reported loss of power with offroader silencers at high altitude,the power got restored as soon as they switched back to stock.
About the injectors,don't fiddle with them if they are working well.The injector cleaner is quite sufficient.
Thanks Rakesh, Yes, I am going to go with the fluid in petrol. Bosch here has a center, where they clean injectors. RE told me to get it cleaned there. But then its always better not to open stuff. I can, but then why to.

Last edited by shan2129 : 3rd May 2015 at 22:39.
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Old 4th May 2015, 00:56   #51
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Default Re: My ThunderBird 500 : Ownership review with pictures

shan2129
You are correct in thinking there is less oxygen at high altitudes but it isn't just the oxygen.
Actually, the percentage of oxygen remains pretty constant at all elevations.

The thing that changes as the elevation increases is the air pressure (and density).

As an example, at sea level the air pressure is roughly 10.13 X 10^4 N/m
At an elevation of 1000 meters the pressure drops to 8.988 X 10^4 N/m
At an elevation of 2000 meters the pressure drops to 7.950 X 10^4 N/m (21 % less than sea level)
At 3000 m = 7.012 X 10^4 N/m (30 % less than sea level)
At 4000 m = 6.166 X 10^4 N/m (40 % less than sea level)
At 5000 m = 5.405 X 10^4 N/m. (47 % less than sea level)

As you know, a reciprocating engine is just a big air pump which gets its power from the amount of air it can take in plus the energy in the fuel. More air will burn more fuel making more power.

The amount of air the engine will try to breath in is affected by the residual amount of exhaust left in the cylinder as the intake valve opens. Less exhaust left in the cylinder equals more fresh air that will be drawn in.

This would seem to indicate that a less restrictive exhaust system would result in greater power gains and to a degree, it does at higher rpm's but at lower rpm's where most of the engines operate, the effect may be much less than many wish for.

At lower speeds the stock silencer and exhaust system on the Royal Enfields is less restrictive than some think so the gain from switching to a less restrictive silencer offers little gain.

As Rakesh mentioned, many find the "gain" can actually be a loss in low and mid range engine speeds.
The reasons are complex dealing with exhaust velocity, exhaust length, the speed of sound and several other factors that are beyond the scope of a net forum.

About the engine running lean when less restrictive silencers are installed:
The prime reason is the engine can breath in more air during its intake stroke.
Although the velocity of the air thru the carburetors venturi increases and as a consequence it tries to suck more fuel, the restrictive jets that control the fuel mixture will not allow enough fuel thru them to keep up with demand. The result is the mixture becomes lean which can burn valves, overheat the piston and cause backfiring during deceleration.
Increasing the size of the jet(s) can restore the proper fuel/air balance.

This is usually a problem on engines that use a carburetor however, fuel injected motorcycles often can automatically readjust their mixtures to maintain a more correct fuel/air mixture.
They do this by sensing the pressures inside the throttle body coupled with the throttle position. (In automotive applications, they also measure the mass flow of the air but motorcycles usually don't have this feature.)

The Royal Enfield fuel injection sensors and the computer map seem to do a fairly good job of minimizing the effects of installing a different silencer with less restriction but I do not recommend going to a totally open silencer. The effects may be greater than the stock fuel injection map can handle.

By the way, the Royal Enfield fuel injection system is designed to maintain the correct air/fuel ratio up to altitudes of 5440 meters. RE knows what the Indian riders need.
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Old 5th May 2015, 10:31   #52
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Default Re: My ThunderBird 500 : Ownership review with pictures

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Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
shan2129
You are correct in thinking there is less oxygen at high altitudes but it isn't just the oxygen.
Actually, the percentage of oxygen remains pretty constant at all elevations.

The thing that changes as the elevation increases is the air pressure (and density).
Oh yes, the air becomes thin, hence body cannot absorb oxygen, same thing happens with deep sea diving, where nitrogen is mixed for proper mixture of gases to be breathed in.

Quote:
At lower speeds the stock silencer and exhaust system on the Royal Enfields is less restrictive than some think so the gain from switching to a less restrictive silencer offers little gain.
I am thinking to go with the stock only. First reason being the thump that might get irritating on longer runs ( I like the OE silencer from RE & their offroader )

Quote:
The Royal Enfield fuel injection sensors and the computer map seem to do a fairly good job of minimizing the effects of installing a different silencer with less restriction but I do not recommend going to a totally open silencer. The effects may be greater than the stock fuel injection map can handle.
Never used a free flow type, never will. I don't like the sound + the power loss is inevitable.

Quote:
By the way, the Royal Enfield fuel injection system is designed to maintain the correct air/fuel ratio up to altitudes of 5440 meters. RE knows what the Indian riders need.
Now, that's awesome information

I read their ECU, found the mapping to be pretty basic, but its effective. I am just suspicious became there is no lambda sensor installed & the amount of oxygen cannot be correctly formulated without an O2 sensor. Now, how they calculate the change in altitude is something that is very intriguing to me.

I wrote my own CU & have used somewhat of a different approach to achieve better results, am just a tidy bit uncomfortable on going a custom ECU to 19000 ft.
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Old 7th May 2015, 15:40   #53
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Default Re: My ThunderBird 500 : Ownership review with pictures

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Hello shan2129,

Can i request for a small favor from your end.

MY TBTS 500 is 1 Year old and the Battery has started acting up.
The battery icon on the panel is blinking continuously and i see a marginal drop in light and power output of the lights.

looking at the forums it seems i need to go in for a replacement battery and as per consultation from the RE service center i should have it replaced as well.

Can you please post a picture of the Battery on your bike and the warranty card, this will help me get the correct config, i have posted a more detailed query in another forum.

Thanks in advance & Regards,
Jimit
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