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Old 19th December 2013, 01:40   #1591
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Default re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

I agree with Ashok and Jay on this. It is not a design element but a fault. Probably gear return spring. Does not sound like a clutch issue. In the older bikes like mine the Igus Bush in the shifter used to get stiff and create issues with mis-shifts. But the newer lots have a bearing in place of the bush so that cannot be the culprit. Ashok get it checked bro. Should be a simple fix.
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Old 19th December 2013, 10:13   #1592
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Default re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

Getting back on topic, there is an issue for certain that atleast 3 owners on this forum are experiencing. Whether it is a simple issue to fix or a design fault, we will know soon enough as owners put some mileage on their dukes. Let us not jump to conclusions and my original post was to ascertain if other people reading this forum have had any luck in resolving this issue. Trying to fix it early so it doesn't snowball into a bigger problem, that's all.

I have been to the service center and they did acknowledge the existence of the sticky shifter. They asked me to double de-clutch and ride some more. They are saying its a stiff gearbox that needs run in and loosen up. For now I will give KTM the benefit of the doubt. I will report back after I cross the 1000 km mark.
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Old 19th December 2013, 10:38   #1593
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Default re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

Joining late....for some of us riding the old bull we have the magical single shift to neutral lever which is brilliant for every situation.

In case of the case discussed here i still use the same old logic of riding by the engine sound and the difference i have made myself is that there is a whole lot of rpm left compared to by bull at similar sounds. Cant explain but its just that feeling.

So shift up or shift down happens like a synchronous operation based on sound and feel rather than the rpm in display or speed in display.

While slowing down to break for a ditch per say, i am sure i will be worried about shifting down as the last instinct. My preliminary steps would be to get the bike to stop and in this case mostly my left hand is pulling the clutch in inadvertently and my right hand and legs are damn hard on the brakes and i am very much close to the handle bar moving my butt forward.

On a scenario which is more controlled from 6th at 80 to suddenly at 20, i am going to be changing gears one after the other till i feel the engine speed is good enough to engage a particular gear. I do not see a chance where i would be going from 6th to say 2nd in such a rapid motion. Its a habit from riding bulls where gear change or engaging clutch is the last thing i do post reducing speed.


Even those double shits happen with a second or two time gap which means the sticky shifter symptom is never visible to me.
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Old 19th December 2013, 11:31   #1594
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Default re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
my right hand and legs are damn hard on the brakes and i am very much close to the handle bar moving my butt forward.
What do you do when the panic sets in and you realize that the lever you are pressing is not the brake ad you are actually going into a higher gear?
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Old 19th December 2013, 16:20   #1595
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Default re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

Sorry for going OT but i face a gearbox issue while downshifting on my 1700kms run NS,i am not sure whether is the same problem as you guys are talking about.While rapidly downshifting(not a panic stop,just hardish braking)from say 6th to 2nd for a speedbump when i am going down the gears i often feel that it wont downshift anymore.So i am tapping down and suddenly it feels as i have hit rock bottom like 1st when its really just 3rd.Pop out the clutch a bit,gears engage slightly,clutch in and i am back downshifting.I put it down to low miles gearbox.Is this whats happening to the 390s as well?
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Old 19th December 2013, 16:25   #1596
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Default re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Originally Posted by avishar View Post
So i am tapping down and suddenly it feels as i have hit rock bottom like 1st when its really just 3rd.Pop out the clutch a bit,gears engage slightly,clutch in and i am back downshifting
Yes. This is the exact same event being discussed.
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Old 19th December 2013, 18:07   #1597
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Default re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

To All with regards to the sticky mutidownshifts. What I can say is that on the 390, this is how it is and not a fault. While I agree and understand that this can be done easily/safely on countless other vehicles, you have to understand the lineage of the 390.

For me, coming from a long line of Pulsars, the first gen muscle P150, the 3rd Gen P180 and the 4 valve P135LS, the gears on the 390 felt exactly the same to me. Felt at home. Now, every single Pulsar I owned prior to this had the exact same scenario of no multi down shifts at one go and find the 390's gearbox behaving exactly the same. So, I wouldn't be surprised if the design and R&D for the gearbox specifically came from Bajaj. If so, then this is not a fault but the way it is designed as in all other Pulsars.

Having said that, I have never found this to be a problem at all maybe because my style of shifting is different. I have always been puzzled when riding pillion and keep telling the rider to not ride the clutch and know numerous ppl who try to shift from top to bottom at one go while slowing down/stopping/turning etc. Maybe other manufacturers have understood this is how most of India rides

Like I said, this has never been a problem with me and trust me, I'm no slouch

I wish I could personally watch those who face this problem and maybe help them find a more efficient way of shifting which will actually be faster. This is kind of the same scenario like doing corners in a car on a race track, when you slide, screech and do corners you think you're actually going faster but having a neat line without any sliding around and hitting the apex might make you appear slower but that is what keeps you miles ahead.

Last edited by Cyrus_the_virus : 19th December 2013 at 18:08.
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Old 19th December 2013, 20:05   #1598
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Default re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

Hi folks,

Many posts back I had asked if any of you had faced the issue where although in neutral the gear shows as 3 (with the green light on as it should be).
Also the gear indicator shows as 3 even when the bike is in 4th, 5th and 6th gears.

This got fixed during my first service. The gear assembly cover had to be removed and the offending part was the insulation on the cable that connects to the gear sensor unit. The insulation was cut and the cable was exposed and touched a metal screw.

The service guy was thrilled on finding the issue and promptly took a photograph to send to the KTM assembly plant managers. He didnt however let me take a photo of the same. All he did was cover the offending place with an insulation tape and the gears showed as they should.

He replaced the sealing lining and put the cover back on and all was well again.
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Old 19th December 2013, 20:47   #1599
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Default re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

So guys, what is the consensus on the 'gearbox will be damaged' thing. (Assume, as some others, esp. ashkamath has pointed out, we are not riding like imbeciles).


Some time back I had posted
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
The 390, if I'm not mistaken, has a new (ie not same as the 200) gearbox design. Could the owners keep an eye on this (slipping in/ out of gear. Not false neutrals) and report.
I believe some answers (though of a different problem) are emerging.

Regards
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Old 19th December 2013, 21:15   #1600
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Default re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by avishar View Post
Sorry for going OT but i face a gearbox issue while downshifting on my 1700kms run NS,i am not sure whether is the same problem as you guys are talking about.While rapidly downshifting(not a panic stop,just hardish braking)from say 6th to 2nd for a speedbump when i am going down the gears i often feel that it wont downshift anymore.So i am tapping down and suddenly it feels as i have hit rock bottom like 1st when its really just 3rd.Pop out the clutch a bit,gears engage slightly,clutch in and i am back downshifting.I put it down to low miles gearbox.Is this whats happening to the 390s as well?
Facing the same issue on my Duke, however this is pretty recent. I got my bike's 1st servicing done at 900kms. till then I faced no issues.
After the 1st servicing its a different story, the gear lever bottoms out while downshifting from 3rd onwards... Have to prod/pull it up to downshift.
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Old 19th December 2013, 23:11   #1601
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Originally Posted by Bazinga View Post

Facing the same issue on my Duke, however this is pretty recent. I got my bike's 1st servicing done at 900kms. till then I faced no issues.
After the 1st servicing its a different story, the gear lever bottoms out while downshifting from 3rd onwards... Have to prod/pull it up to downshift.
Same here! And mine is a recent issue as well.Pre-first service the gearbox smoothness was much better than after service.These days i have been noticing that the gears remain clunky pretty much all day.Earlier they used to get butter smooth after everything gets warmed up ,cant even feel the shift.Nowadays,and especially after a few kms of crawling traffic,a lot more false neutrals,clunky shifts and the downshift problem.
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Old 20th December 2013, 08:34   #1602
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Default re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by avishar View Post
Same here! And mine is a recent issue as well.Pre-first service the gearbox smoothness was much better than after service.These days i have been noticing that the gears remain clunky pretty much all day.Earlier they used to get butter smooth after everything gets warmed up ,cant even feel the shift.Nowadays,and especially after a few kms of crawling traffic,a lot more false neutrals,clunky shifts and the downshift problem.
Planning to take it to service station next week... Will get it checked.
Another issue: Has anyone noticed the crazy fuel gauge. It has its own mood. After a spirited ride the fuel level would show a lower value, if you let the bike cool off for an hour the fuel suddenly increases (or so from the gauge) !!! Magic
I have come to ignore this indicator, you can never rely on this one.
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Old 20th December 2013, 09:40   #1603
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Default re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
So guys, what is the consensus on the 'gearbox will be damaged' thing. (Assume, as some others, esp. ashkamath has pointed out, we are not riding like imbeciles).
As I read it, I think the consensus is: "If you don't ride like an imbecile, your gear-box will not get damaged".
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Old 20th December 2013, 11:25   #1604
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Default re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
So guys, what is the consensus on the 'gearbox will be damaged' thing.
Sutripta, What I could gather was that the 6 gears are forged alloyed steel of chromium and Nickel, and then case hardened which results in high durability and toughness. So the possibility of damaging the gearbox is very remote ( unless there is a direct impact on the casing due to a mishap). Remember these bikes are high performance bikes with stats being 0-100 in around 5.6 sec and top speed nearing 170 Kmph. The gears are designed to withstand the type of stress induced in a performance bike. The change in gears / speed could be rapid by riders due to the same reason that it is a performance bike and ridden like one and not a commuter bike.

I am yet to come across some one who has damaged his gearbox due to a particular riding style with a Duke. ( I have no idea about this with other bikes such as RE or commuter bikes) So rest assured the gearbox will not be damaged and there is no reason of concern in this regard due to a difference in riding style. These gears are tough enough to last.
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Old 20th December 2013, 11:40   #1605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus_the_virus View Post

For me, coming from a long line of Pulsars, the first gen muscle P150, the 3rd Gen P180 and the 4 valve P135LS, the gears on the 390 felt exactly the same to me. Felt at home. Now, every single Pulsar I owned prior to this had the exact same scenario of no multi down shifts at one go and find the 390's gearbox behaving exactly the same. So, I wouldn't be surprised if the design and R&D for the gearbox specifically came from Bajaj. If so, then this is not a fault but the way it is designed as in all other Pulsars.

Like I said, this has never been a problem with me and trust me, I'm no slouch.
Agree to what you say in totality.

I am in no way a guru of bikes or biking but from my whatsoever small, meaningful (of course to myself) and sometime scary experiences that I have mustered up, the Pulsars and Dukes (I hope its not sacrilege to put both names in the same sentence ) come from a manufacturer who were still building primitive scooters with sprung seats 10 years back.
Now, over the years, I have extensively ridden an Old Pulsar 150 UG1 (Round headlamp), The old UG2 Pulsar, owned a 150 UG3 Pulsar and also ridden extensively, a UG4 Pulsar 150 and 180.

From what I understand, there are 2 distinctly different problems or gearbox characters being discussed currently:
1. Better riding practices, clutch usage while downshifting, riding the clutch etc.
2. The gearbox characteristics of pulsars and dukes, which erratically gives a pseudo sensation of having reached the lowest gear when it still isn't actually there.

I can talk about point 2, point 1 has been discussed in detail by doc and other much more technically qualified and more experienced members.

All the pulsars have had the same gearbox characteristics from day 1, IIRC. It feels like you have reached the lowest gear when its actually not. This is prevalent when you downshift through many gears with one clutch pull. The gear lever travel becomes just about an inch and feels like it wont go down any further. In those cases, I have always slightly disengaged the clutch, and the correct gear engages immediately. Thereon, you can again downshift with élan. This characteristic of the gearbox I have primarily faced while hitting 2 gears, mostly, 3rd to second, and second to first. It might be because of the neutral in between gears 2 and 1 while downshifting.

Any technical pointers doc?
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