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Old 17th October 2014, 17:14   #2956
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

It has been a year since! Apart from slight niggles, this has been the best bike I have had from the Bajaj Stable.

Mine has maybe stalled 2 or 3 times in the last 1 Yr. Except for couple of occasions, I have always put in Speed97. I have heard and seen so many Dukes facing issues due to poor quality fuel. This seems to be a common factor among majority of the dukes that have stalling issues. Secondly, the stalling due to riding clutch is so common. If you are stalling while slowing down, you're doing it wrong. Unless the bike is stalling/dying while you are driving normally or throttling up, you are doing it wrong. Ofcourse, there are some cases that are genuinely having a problem but majority of the folks who are stalling are due to riding clutch with closed throttle and low quality fuel.

I think it has been clarified beyond any doubt that the rims breaking are due to the low profile tyres and not due to a quality issue with the wheel.

Those who have had gasket oil seepage etc. I have seen this on some of my previous Bajajs but not the Duke. And those Bajajs were either ridden really hard or didn't stick to the correct breakin method. No other reason why so many other gaskets are perfectly holding fine while some others are leaking all over the place.

The only genuine issue I have sen with the bike is the damn fork seals. They need to fix that permanently.
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Old 17th October 2014, 17:49   #2957
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Originally Posted by Cyrus_the_virus View Post
Secondly, the stalling due to riding clutch is so common. If you are stalling while slowing down, you're doing it wrong.
Seriously?

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I think it has been clarified beyond any doubt that the rims breaking are due to the low profile tyres and not due to a quality issue with the wheel.
Clarified beyond doubt by who?

Who provides the low profile tyres?

Who provides the wheels?

Are the wheels bending, cracking, splitting, breaking a lot more than any other bike we have heard of?

The last one is the only thing beyond doubt the way I see it.
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Old 17th October 2014, 19:20   #2958
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Originally Posted by Cyrus_the_virus View Post
If you are stalling while slowing down, you're doing it wrong. Unless the bike is stalling/dying while you are driving normally or throttling up, you are doing it wrong. Ofcourse, there are some cases that are genuinely having a problem but majority of the folks who are stalling are due to riding clutch with closed throttle and low quality fuel.

I think it has been clarified beyond any doubt that the rims breaking are due to the low profile tyres and not due to a quality issue with the wheel.

Those who have had gasket oil seepage etc. I have seen this on some of my previous Bajajs but not the Duke. And those Bajajs were either ridden really hard or didn't stick to the correct breakin method. No other reason why so many other gaskets are perfectly holding fine while some others are leaking all over the place.

The only genuine issue I have sen with the bike is the damn fork seals. They need to fix that permanently.
Can't agree with you about anything here! Stalling happens WHILE you are slowing down, if you stall in acceleration or normal driving, you have some major problem in your bike!

Rim breakage is not because of low profile tires. It was discussed at length here in team-bhp only that the same rims that work fine in Duke 200 are breaking off in Duke 390, probably because of the powder coating process. It's all theories as of now, but low profile tires aren't the only culprit here for sure.

As far as engine oil leaks go, I have a friend who takes really good care of his bike, but oil leakage has always been there from the start. I don't really understand why you are blaming the owners for everything

The damn fork seals seem to be the only thing that work fine! Arony Ghosh from Kolkata used them for about 60k kms before problems came in. Mine are working awesome at 22,000 kms.

Something is very wrong somewhere.
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Old 17th October 2014, 22:09   #2959
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Originally Posted by mithunvvijayan View Post
Is the whistling noise coming, even without applying brakes? If not, then if the bike is used after keeping idle for somedays, this might occur. But the noise must go after a few kms of run.
And I don't think the rear brake should be warm at all, if not used at all.

Yes, it is normal for all these lamps to glow, when ignition is on. But they will go away after the engine starts. ABS goes off when the bike crosses 5 kmph.
Yes without applying brake , just rolling the bike in neutral is enough to distinctly hear the sound astride the bike , our driver pinpointed it to the brakes . Bike is new like I mentioned , just 100 km done now and the explanation offered is new pads are coarse hence make that sound for a couple of hundred kilometers .

Rear brake was warm and it is very cool here , it might have been warm due to exhaust emission maybe but it was not used once . It was warm throughout .
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Old 17th October 2014, 22:18   #2960
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

And MODs excuse the separate post but the incident warrants one .

ABS FAILED badly .

Bike - 3 days old , sep 2014 manufacture date , 100km done .

Rider- me 77kg , pillion 78kg.

Road - well paved , army cantt. area so no traffic and well lit .

pillion wanted a short ride , took him for one right in front of our house for a kilometer .
On way back to house doing a speed of 50km in 4th gear , a dog not 10 feet in front decided to cross road , applied front brake only with 2 fingers ( not a ham-fisted 4 finger effort but very strong as the situation demanded) while keeping bike straight - rear wheel lifted a foot off the ground for a second with a 80kg pillion in the process . Bike landed straight and shed speed very fast in the process but the incident has completely shattered my confidence in this bike .

The way I see it , a safety feature is either bulletproof or it is not a safety feature , during test ride I had an incident where the rear skidded slightly but I was (mistakenly) complacent enough to ignore that(I have read a couple of owners complaining about that , never of front wheel stoppie though) but front wheel stoppie ??!!! dear god . Yes I know tire is new and one may very well point that out but please bear in mind the weight of pillion , without him I might very well have been ejected off the bike .

progressively apply brake ? yeah we all do that in normal circumstances but when s*** hits the fan , progression goes out of the window . ABS is for those situations , not for fair weather .

New brakes ? I honestly hope so .

Zero rear brake application ? that certainly contributed but to what extent I don't know , loss of power at rear would have prevented the or extent of the stoppie but I had chopped throttle while simultaneously depressing clutch so it was not on drive . The entire episode happened and finished within a second .

Massive credit to the bike for landing without fishtailing , it was after the stoppie I realized what happened , a fishtail would have just complicated matters .

Last edited by basuroy : 17th October 2014 at 22:33.
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Old 17th October 2014, 23:52   #2961
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Originally Posted by basuroy View Post
Yes without applying brake , just rolling the bike in neutral is enough to distinctly hear the sound astride the bike , our driver pinpointed it to the brakes . Bike is new like I mentioned , just 100 km done now and the explanation offered is new pads are coarse hence.
I think there is a problem with the brakes. The pads must be definetly in contact with the disc. Unless there is friction, how can be there a sound? I don't think the mechanic is an idiot. He just doen't want to do his job.
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Old 18th October 2014, 00:08   #2962
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Originally Posted by mithunvvijayan View Post
I think there is a problem with the brakes. The pads must be definetly in contact with the disc. Unless there is friction, how can be there a sound? I don't think the mechanic is an idiot. He just doen't want to do his job.
I expressed the same sentiment , his reply being new pads (and these are basically brand new ) are coarse even if they may appear smooth to the untrained eye and as such prone to contact for 100/200 kilometers.

Btw in disc brakes , is there enough gap between the brakes and the disc to pass a hair or paper or it appears solid on observation ? Mine from our observation it appears one will find it hard to even pass a hair through the observed (without taking wheel off and untrained eyes) non existent gaps . Will(in light of a subsequent incident too) take it to the SVC to be safe .

New wheel bearings/axle aren't known to make sounds right ? just eliminating a potential source of sound .

Ps: on a possibly related note as reported in my above post , my front wheel locked today immediately on application of the front brake very strongly resulting in a stoppie . ABS by default was on , 50kmph speed with a 80kg pillion which the way I understand increases load on rear thereby reducing the probability /extent of a stoppie .
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Old 18th October 2014, 00:13   #2963
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Originally Posted by Cyrus_the_virus View Post
Secondly, the stalling due to riding clutch is so common. If you are stalling while slowing down, you're doing it wrong. Unless the bike is stalling/dying while you are driving normally or throttling up, you are doing it wrong. Ofcourse, there are some cases that are genuinely having a problem but majority of the folks who are stalling are due to riding clutch with closed throttle and low quality fuel.
I agree with you that a lot of riders ride the clutch, being myself one of them. If the stalling was due to riding the clutch, then why is it not happening in my case. My bike stalls pre warm up, even if I ride in the first gear the whole time. The moment the bike comes to a halt, it stalls.

But when it is properly warmed up it never stalls, even if I ride the clutch in the sixth gear. Ever.

One can argue that the low octane reduces the specific output of the engine. But then again, a lot of people who uses regular fuel, have not had this problem at all.

Which narrows down to quality control. I think, the tolerances set by the design team at KTM has not been strictly adhered. When that happens, there will be variations in the quality of the output, even if they were from the same lot. And when you are dealing with a product which is tuned to max, the difference in quality will start to show.

There have been cases were a foreign brand got killed by an Indian partner, Mitsubishi- Hindustan Motors alliance for instance. If KTM doesnt put their ears on the ground and listen, they better get ready for a bashing.
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Old 18th October 2014, 00:37   #2964
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Originally Posted by basuroy View Post
And MODs excuse the separate post but the incident warrants one .

ABS FAILED badly .

Bike - 3 days old , sep 2014 manufacture date , 100km done .

Rider- me 77kg , pillion 78kg.

Road - well paved , army cantt. area so no traffic and well lit .

pillion wanted a short ride , took him for one right in front of our house for a kilometer .
On way back to house doing a speed of 50km in 4th gear , a dog not 10 feet in front decided to cross road , applied front brake only with 2 fingers ( not a ham-fisted 4 finger effort but very strong as the situation demanded) while keeping bike straight - rear wheel lifted a foot off the ground for a second with a 80kg pillion in the process . Bike landed straight and shed speed very fast in the process but the incident has completely shattered my confidence in this bike .

The way I see it , a safety feature is either bulletproof or it is not a safety feature , during test ride I had an incident where the rear skidded slightly but I was (mistakenly) complacent enough to ignore that(I have read a couple of owners complaining about that , never of front wheel stoppie though) but front wheel stoppie ??!!! dear god . Yes I know tire is new and one may very well point that out but please bear in mind the weight of pillion , without him I might very well have been ejected off the bike .

progressively apply brake ? yeah we all do that in normal circumstances but when s*** hits the fan , progression goes out of the window . ABS is for those situations , not for fair weather .

New brakes ? I honestly hope so .

Zero rear brake application ? that certainly contributed but to what extent I don't know , loss of power at rear would have prevented the or extent of the stoppie but I had chopped throttle while simultaneously depressing clutch so it was not on drive . The entire episode happened and finished within a second .

Massive credit to the bike for landing without fishtailing , it was after the stoppie I realized what happened , a fishtail would have just complicated matters .
Wow! That is a weird thing to happen. The whole point of ABS is to stop tire skid. It appears somehow that you got too much traction on the front wheel, and the application of brake didn't make the tire skid, so ABS didn't cut off the power.

But really weird part is this happening with a pillion! Satisfying all the conditions for a pillion stoppie to happen on an ABS enabled bike is extremely difficult in my opinion. Something went haywire somewhere.
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Old 18th October 2014, 06:48   #2965
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Originally Posted by basuroy View Post
And MODs excuse the separate post but the incident warrants one .

ABS FAILED badly .
I don't see why you're blaming ABS for this incident. You know ABS has failed only when you've jammed the breaks and the wheels lock up. For these kind of situations, not panicking is extremely important and progressive but hard breaking is key. But its still a little strange that the bike stoppied with an 80kg pillion at the back.
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Old 18th October 2014, 10:20   #2966
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Seriously?
unfortunately yes. I didn't say all of the stalls are because of this, but I said common, there are a lot of folks who stall in this way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Clarified beyond doubt by who?
Who provides the low profile tyres?
Who provides the wheels?
Are the wheels bending, cracking, splitting, breaking a lot more than any other bike we have heard of?
The last one is the only thing beyond doubt the way I see it.
Clarified by all the discussion that has happened so far. The low sidewalls of the metzelers are the reason.

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Originally Posted by RiderZone View Post
Can't agree with you about anything here! Stalling happens WHILE you are slowing down, if you stall in acceleration or normal driving, you have some major problem in your bike!
Mine has stalled once during acceleration which is the only concerning stall that has happenned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiderZone View Post
Rim breakage is not because of low profile tires. It was discussed at length here in team-bhp only that the same rims that work fine in Duke 200 are breaking off in Duke 390, probably because of the powder coating process. It's all theories as of now, but low profile tires aren't the only culprit here for sure.
That's because the Duke200 doesn't come with the low sidewall metzelers.

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Originally Posted by RiderZone View Post
As far as engine oil leaks go, I have a friend who takes really good care of his bike, but oil leakage has always been there from the start. I don't really understand why you are blaming the owners for everything
Taking really good care doesn't necessarily translate to good riding habit

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Originally Posted by RiderZone View Post
The damn fork seals seem to be the only thing that work fine! Arony Ghosh from Kolkata used them for about 60k kms before problems came in. Mine are working awesome at 22,000 kms.
Yeah, true in some cases. Mine was busted just once after 10K, but this is the most common and repeated fault by far.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mithunvvijayan View Post
My bike stalls pre warm up, even if I ride in the first gear the whole time. The moment the bike comes to a halt, it stalls. But when it is properly warmed up it never stalls, even if I ride the clutch in the sixth gear. Ever.
Why are you riding the bike without warming up?

I never move till the first bar of the temp comes up

Not specifically you but I laugh at all those folks who just start their bike and ride off. They have no idea the damage a cold engine goes through.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mithunvvijayan View Post
Which narrows down to quality control. I think, the tolerances set by the design team at KTM has not been strictly adhered. When that happens, there will be variations in the quality of the output, even if they were from the same lot. And when you are dealing with a product which is tuned to max, the difference in quality will start to show.
Mine and a lot of other's bikes that have been running fine came from the same factory going through the same quality checks right?

Like I was saying, I didn't say that all the stalls in the world are happening due to that, but unfortunately lot of folks are stalling because of that. And again, there is no doubt that there can be a batch of bad bikes from production that are having the issues, but unless someone proves that all the bikes having an issue are from the same batch, the truth of the matter is it is how it is treated in the hands of the owner that differentiate a problem less bike with one that has problems.
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Old 18th October 2014, 10:20   #2967
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Wow! That is a weird thing to happen. The whole point of ABS is to stop tire skid. It appears somehow that you got too much traction on the front wheel, and the application of brake didn't make the tire skid, so ABS didn't cut off the power.

But really weird part is this happening with a pillion! Satisfying all the conditions for a pillion stoppie to happen on an ABS enabled bike is extremely difficult in my opinion. Something went haywire somewhere.
With a pillion at such low speed no less . Good road too , not wet and today morning I went back and confirmed no oil or cow dung on the area either , there is hardly even any gravel or sand .

I return and then notice the bike has coughed out a spoonful coolant from the coolant cap , this is normal I assume ? the coolant level was about 5mm below maximum level after a 20km ride that included 2 20/30seconds burst of quick acceleration up to 100kmph . Coolant level when cold is slightly above the mid point between MAX/MIN markings .

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Originally Posted by Suraj25 View Post
I don't see why you're blaming ABS for this incident. You know ABS has failed only when you've jammed the breaks and the wheels lock up. For these kind of situations, not panicking is extremely important and progressive but hard breaking is key. But its still a little strange that the bike stoppied with an 80kg pillion at the back.
Are you serious ? wheel did lock up and that is why the stoppie happened and it locked up right on application . Like I clearly mention , this is a sudden emergency on hand and forgive me if I don't have the skill to brake progressively at a speed of 50km with a responsibility at back when a dog decides to cross road bang in front of me . If I had , I would not have bothered with ABS because ABS exists(the way I understand it ) for situations like this no less , the whole point behind ABS is it should counteract even sudden and very fast brake application as emergency situations often demand.

It did a foot high stoppie with an 80kg pillion , imagine what would have happened/might happen in future without one !!! If the brakes/ABS can't even handle a speed that is quite laughable on a KTM with a pillion , god knows how it will respond on the highway at 80+ speeds . I am well aware that it doesn't offers reliable protection leaned in but it should be bulletproof dead straight .

Last edited by basuroy : 18th October 2014 at 10:30.
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Old 18th October 2014, 10:26   #2968
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Default Re: The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

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Originally Posted by basuroy View Post
On way back to house doing a speed of 50km in 4th gear , a dog not 10 feet in front decided to cross road , applied front brake only with 2 fingers ( not a ham-fisted 4 finger effort but very strong as the situation demanded) while keeping bike straight - rear wheel lifted a foot off the ground for a second with a 80kg pillion in the process . Bike landed straight and shed speed very fast in the process but the incident has completely shattered my confidence in this bike .
It's called Laws of Physics

Thanks to ABS you didn't skid and your behind is safe today

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Originally Posted by basuroy View Post
Are you serious ? wheel did lock up and that is why the stoppie happened and it locked up right on application . Like I clearly mention , this is a sudden emergency on hand and forgive me if I don't have the skill to brake progressively at a speed of 50km with a responsibility at back when a dog decides to cross road bang in front of me . If I had , I would not have bothered with ABS because ABS exists(the way I understand it ) for situations like this no less , the whole point behind ABS is it should counteract even sudden and very fast brake application as emergency situations often demand.
Clearly you have no idea what a lock up looks like

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It did a foot high stoppie with an 80kg pillion , imagine what would have happened/might happen in future without one !!! If the brakes/ABS can't even handle a speed that is quite laughable on a KTM with a pillion , god knows how it will respond on the highway at 80+ speeds . I am well aware that it doesn't offers reliable protection leaned in but it should be bulletproof dead straight .
Again, laws of physics. if you didn't have the pillion, the rear wheel wouldn't probably have gone up in the air like it did in this situation because it doesn't matter whether the pillion was in the back or not, when you brake, due to the momentum, the entire weight goes to the front, the weight of the pillion has zero bearing on the rear seat.

Stop blaming ABS for laws of physics

Last edited by Cyrus_the_virus : 18th October 2014 at 10:39.
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Old 18th October 2014, 10:42   #2969
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Originally Posted by Cyrus_the_virus View Post
It's called Laws of Physics

Thanks to ABS you didn't skid and your behind is safe today



Clearly you have no idea what a lock up looks like
Ahhh stupid me for ignoring physics , here I was like a newbie expecting my brand new bike's ABS module to completely negate any such unfortunate incident . Such jolly fun it will be riding a KTM in normal traffic and poor roads with the mindset of a non ABS bike .

"Chalta hai" attitude of the defensive souls might motivate the glass half full approach to the incident but with ABS and for that matter any safety feature(within confines of limitation which for the 9m module is no lean sensor and hence lean compensation) , the glass should be full or it is just half empty .

And please do educate me on how a lock up looks like because the way I understand , when the front wheel locks , the rear lifts off the ground which is exactly what happened , of course I am not a half wit to not realize ABS acted within split second to release the wheel but it should have never locked in the first place because imagine that in traffic or inferior roads as is the case here . Many outside factors were heavily in favor of traction and safety like good road and no traffic at all .

EDIT : you reckon during braking entire/significant weight of even pillion transfers to front ? hmm that is interesting and never thought of it that way but are you dead sure ? he did slam into me hard resulting in some discomfort to my nether areas :/

Last edited by basuroy : 18th October 2014 at 10:47.
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Old 18th October 2014, 11:19   #2970
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Originally Posted by Cyrus_the_virus View Post


Why are you riding the bike without warming up?

I never move till the first bar of the temp comes up

Not specifically you but I laugh at all those folks who just start their bike and ride off. They have no idea the damage a cold engine goes through.



Mine and a lot of other's bikes that have been running fine came from the same factory going through the same quality checks right?

Like I was saying, I didn't say that all the stalls in the world are happening due to that, but unfortunately lot of folks are stalling because of that. And again, there is no doubt that there can be a batch of bad bikes from production that are having the issues, but unless someone proves that all the bikes having an issue are from the same batch, the truth of the matter is it is how it is treated in the hands of the owner that differentiate a problem less bike with one that has problems.
Sorry I didn't choose the right words in my earlier posts. I only start moving the bike after the first bar pops up in the temperature gauge. In one of my earlier posts I had mentioned this. What I meant with pre warm up is that, before the temp gauge shows atleast 5 bars. This also I mentioned in an earlier post.

I never run any vehicle without idling for atleast 1 min. And I don't believe in fast warm up, by slow driving. But even after the first bar pops up, the bike stalls untill atleast 5 bars are displayed in the temp guage. The technician at KTM pointed towards a faulty decomp valve, which will be tested along with a host of other parts suggested by VW2010, Man Of Steel, during the first service.

And again sorry for choosing the wrong word. What I meant by a lot is, by a sample size. During QA they test only by sampling. Sampling will fail if it is not done if the norms are not adhered at all.

Now I was in charge of warranty quality check in used cars program in Maruti Suzuki and Hyundai Motors. I have tested more than a 1000 cars in my carrier. And have personally owned Maruti 800, Esteem, Accent, Mahindra 44, Getz 110hp diesel, Bajaj Caliber, Pulsar 180. And I make it a business to test drive each and every car and bike that has been launched. Except luxury cars and bikes.

My point is that I never have seen a vehicle which stalls before the engine heat is at its maximum, unless there is somethig wrong with the cycle parts.Period.
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